Early entrance to Kindy?

[Pumpkin_Pie]

My DS will be 4 in March and is in a mixed age preschool.  There are children ages 3-5 in his class and children typically spend two years in the same class with the same teachers.  This is DS's first year in this school and he has one more year to go before Kindy.  He is extremely verbal, is beginning to read, knows all of his letters both upper case and lower case and knows all of the sounds that they make.  He recognizes numbers up to 10 and can count to nearly 20 and is also starting to write both numbers and letters.  He has an extremely vivid imagination and will often play for an hour or more on the same storyline with many characters and elaborate stories. 

Last week I had a quick conversation with his teachers who had recently gone over children's birthdays and said that they hadn't realized that he was only 3.  He does not typically play with the younger children in class, but much prefers older playmates, and he is ahead of many of the 4 and 5 year olds in both reading and writing and problem solving. 

He is VERY high energy and when he is challenged, he has a focus that is unflappable, but if he is bored, he tends to be a bit of a trouble maker.  I am getting very nervous about next year, and am wondering if he would benefit from entering kindy a year early and how to go about even looking into that. 

I am not labeling him as "gifted", as I have no idea where he falls, I only know that he is definitely bright and I feel like he will definitely be ready for kindy next fall.  I expressed my concern to his teachers about next year and they said he would be "helpful" in the class room in that he would be a model for the younger children and he would be able to help "teach" them what he already knows.  I have mixed feelings about this, as I want him to feel challenged, not like he needs to teach his age mates.  

Any suggestions?

[whatsnextmom]

There really is no one right answer for kids in this position. Each will reacte in their own way and find their own happiness, challenges, ect.

Personally, we didn't seek early enrollment for either of the kids despite their advanced skills. We didn't want to be beholden to the school schedules and honestly, we weren't in a hurry for the kids into curriculum/standards based education.

My eldest started kindie at five and 2 to 5 grade levels ahead all around. Kindie wasn't a good fit for her and she was moved up to 1st grade after winter break. Her kindie teacher DID try to put her in the "teacher's helper" position but she just hated it. Plus, she had NO idea how a typical child learns. How could she teach one? She honestly had no idea how to "learn" something that didn't come instantaneously. To be honest, she is only now developing that skill at age 13 in AP physics. The grade skip didn't solve the academic issues but it did help the social fit immensely. It's taken lots of accomodation over the years but she's a happy, healthy high schooler now. I really don't regret sending her on schedule as opposed to early enrollement. We had SUCH a wonderful time that year prior to kindie.

My DS has a late fall birthday and our district a late cut-off. He was able to start at 4-years-old. He wasn't quite as advanced (about 1 to 3 grades) and he really just wanted to play. He needed very little in reguards to accomodation in kindergarten. DS actually LIKES being the teacher though. He likes being the "expert" and he's a much better teacher. Moving him up a grade would be a mistake for a multiple of reasons so instead we placed him in a specialty tri-lingual charter with accelerated academics. He is in the GATE program and has a subject acceleration in math. It's a good balance for him.

If I were you, I'd really start researching your options. Early enrollement isn't as easy as it can seem. Many schools require IQ and ability testing prior to consideration. Private schools will sometimes accomodate without such scores but if the intent is to move them into public school, the public school make not accept the private year of kindie and insist that he start with his age mates. Find out exactly what steps you'll need to take should you go that route. Consider that preschool might actually offer him more flexibility to learn how and what he wants. Kindergarten is much more rigid than it used to be. It's not unusual for kindergarteners to start school reading, writing and knowing basic mathematics now. The writing demands can be very high and a 4-year-old can be at a big disadvantage. Consider options like in-class differentiation and subject acceleration that would allow your child to work at a higher level but remain in his age group. Sometimes it's also much easier to grade skip once the staff knows you and your child.

[Linda on the move]

Starting K early is a HUGE decision because you are, in effect, cutting a year out of your child's childhood. They'll go to middle school a year earlier. They'll be pressured to have a cell phone and facebook account earlier. The dress out for gym earlier. They'll leave for college earlier. It's everything. It's all a big package.

I wouldn't want to decide all of that for a child who was 3. You really don't know what he'll be like as he gets older. Grade skipping is always an option later. I'd try to make sure that he had a really fun year next year, and that he kept moving along in ways that are interesting for him, but I wouldn't seek skipping K.

My older Dd changed to a private school this year and we had the option of her skipping 8th grade and going straight to highschool, and she can easily do highschool level work. We opted not to because she is very shy and anxious, so we are giving her an extra year in the shelter of home and small school before spreading her wings. The school put her in a combo of middle school and high school classes, so she has some interesting things going on.

I could see the other option as having been right for a child with a different temperment, but I can't see any parent of a 3 year old being able to know for sure how it would play out for their child.

[elmh23]

Can you even do early entrance in your district?  In ours, you cannot.  Doesn't matter how bright/gift/ahead your kid is, they cannot enter unless they are 5 before Sept. 1.

[jen in co]

Definitely see what your district policy on early entrance is.   Our district has a program and it is most definitely for potentially gifted kids who are far ahead academically (and not for kids who just miss a cut-off date).   We considered it for my DS who was reading before he turned 4, but didn't pursue it b/c for him, the social side would have been tough.

I do think it's important to think about it as you're potentially truncating his childhood by a year...it could still be the right decision, but something to think about.  My kids are both super young for their grades (and many families would have and do hold their kids with similar birthdays back), but going to school on time was the right decision for them.  

I would try to talk to parents of kids who are school aged in the schools that you're considered and see if they feel like the schools do a good job of differentiating for those kids who need advanced work.  In our case, I knew the K teacher was amazing and she has allowed our DS to go to a 2nd-3rd grade reading group and has arranged for some 1-on-1 research time with the librarian.  But, having had an older daughter go through the system, I'm not as confident about grades 1 and 3, so we're pursuing testing and official GT diagnosis so we have the option of sending him to a center based program.

[whatsnextmom]

I don't know that I'd see early enterance as taking a year of childhood away. It's quality not quantity that is important. An extra year is pretty meaningless if it's spent unhappy and results in many years of feeling out of place and rejected. Losing a grade in school but having all the following years be a positive experience seems worth it. There is no one road to a happy childhood and truely, what makes a childhood "happy" is subjective and dependant a great deal on the personality of the individual in question.

We don't regret letting our DD skip a grade nor do we regret not holding back our son an extra year which is the norm in our area. Certainly, that doesn't make it the right decision for all but it's important not to let the somewhat dramatic notion of "losing" a year of childhood keep one from seeking a better fit for their child. They don't LOSE a year, they just spend that year doing something different from other kids their age.

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by elmh23 

Can you even do early entrance in your district?  In ours, you cannot.  Doesn't matter how bright/gift/ahead your kid is, they cannot enter unless they are 5 before Sept. 1.

Ditto this, but our cut off is Sept 15. No exceptions. They also have a cut-off for 1st grade (6 by Sept 15th) so even if you homeschool K or do a private setting- you have to abide by the cut-off.

The area we moved from had a late late cut-off date (Dec) and again, had no exceptions. Some areas do have exceptions--- but it is often only if the child is w/in 3 months of cut-off date AND passes a screener ( the writing being the most difficult to pass since even academically gifted 4 year olds may have the cognition to write well, they do not have the muscle control).
 

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by KCMichigan 

Originally Posted by elmh23 

Can you even do early entrance in your district?  In ours, you cannot.  Doesn't matter how bright/gift/ahead your kid is, they cannot enter unless they are 5 before Sept. 1.

Ditto this, but our cut off is Sept 15. No exceptions. They also have a cut-off for 1st grade (6 by Sept 15th) so even if you homeschool K or do a private setting- you have to abide by the cut-off.
 

This is also the case in public schools where we live. Very solid cut off for K and 1, but if you pay for a private school, they will test your child before second and consider putting them up a grade.

The reason is just what I stated before -- you really can't tell when a child is so young what is right for them. In the school here, it is the middle school teachers that are most opposed to grade skipping. Even if a child does fine in elementary being the youngest, it doesn't mean they will fair at all well in middle school.
 

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

I don't know that I'd see early enterance as taking a year of childhood away. It's quality not quantity that is important. An extra year is pretty meaningless if it's spent unhappy and results in many years of feeling out of place and rejected. Losing a grade in school but having all the following years be a positive experience seems worth it.

They will graduate a year earlier and go on to do whatever is they go to do a year earlier, so I stand by what I said. I totally agree that having a positive experience is more important  than how many years they are a child, but I think it can be pretty hard to judge what will provide that, esp when a child is 3.

Different things work best for different kids, but I think that everything I said is stuff that parents should consider when thinking about a grade skip. It's a package deal that comes with some side effects.

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

Originally Posted by KCMichigan 

Originally Posted by elmh23 

Can you even do early entrance in your district?  In ours, you cannot.  Doesn't matter how bright/gift/ahead your kid is, they cannot enter unless they are 5 before Sept. 1.

Ditto this, but our cut off is Sept 15. No exceptions. They also have a cut-off for 1st grade (6 by Sept 15th) so even if you homeschool K or do a private setting- you have to abide by the cut-off.
 

This is also the case in public schools where we live. Very solid cut off for K and 1, but if you pay for a private school, they will test your child before second and consider putting them up a grade.

The reason is just what I stated before -- you really can't tell when a child is so young what is right for them. In the school here, it is the middle school teachers that are most opposed to grade skipping. Even if a child does fine in elementary being the youngest, it doesn't mean they will fair at all well in middle school.
 

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

I don't know that I'd see early enterance as taking a year of childhood away. It's quality not quantity that is important. An extra year is pretty meaningless if it's spent unhappy and results in many years of feeling out of place and rejected. Losing a grade in school but having all the following years be a positive experience seems worth it.

They will graduate a year earlier and go on to do whatever is they go to do a year earlier, so I stand by what I said. I totally agree that having a positive experience is more important  than how many years they are a child, but I think it can be pretty hard to judge what will provide that, esp when a child is 3.

Different things work best for different kids, but I think that everything I said is stuff that parents should consider when thinking about a grade skip. It's a package deal that comes with some side effects.

I think your heart is in the right place but truely, we can only do what is right for our child based on who they are at that moment. I'm never one to suggest that acceleration should be the FIRST choice but I simply don't buy the argument that they will flounder in middle and high school because of age. It's common thought and certainly, countless people warned us based on no real experience or facts. However, we've been through it. We've watched several children go through it. The long range studies support that accelerated children are happier and more satisfied with their childhoods than kids of similar ability who were not given the same options. Besides, we aren't talking radical acceleration here. So they go to college at 17 instead of 18? There will be plenty of 17-year-olds there due to the differences in state cut-offs. If it's unacceptable, take a year off to work, to travel and then go to college at 18. Stay local, live at home, go to school part time. We know tons of college kids and you know what, they are still kids. There are lots of options. One year at a time... that's what works for us. Do what is best right now and deal with the future as it comes.

Now, I don't know the OP's child. Based solely on what she shared, I wouldn't opt for early enrollment. Plenty of kindergarteners start reading, writing and doing simple math. The levels aren't so far advanced that they'd be out of place in a quality preschool. 3 is young but he's almost 4 and it's not unusual for parents of 4-year-olds to start thinking in reguards to kindergarten and what will be the best placement. She's considering kindie at 4.5 not at 3.

[jen in co]

I think your heart is in the right place but truely, we can only do what is right for our child based on who they are at that moment. I'm never one to suggest that acceleration should be the FIRST choice but I simply don't buy the argument that they will flounder in middle and high school because of age. It's common thought and certainly, countless people warned us based on no real experience or facts. However, we've been through it. We've watched several children go through it. The long range studies support that accelerated children are happier and more satisfied with their childhoods than kids of similar ability who were not given the same options. Besides, we aren't talking radical acceleration here.

I was one who cautioned early entrance to K, but at the same token, I think acceleration can be the appropriate tool and we may eventually consider it for our DS.   Our experience has been that K is a fun year and, in our case, the teachers did a great deal of differentiation for our DS.   We may eventually look at a grade skip for our DS, but for now we're considering a GT center as another option.   In any case, some people do have great luck with early entry and others with grade skips...I would just caution early entry at 4 1/2 for K based on what I've seen of early entrance students in our district. 

Another option to consider for the OP might be skipping K and entering 1st at 5 1/2.  We have a good friend whose DS did that this year and it's been very successful
 

[Pumpkin_Pie]

Originally Posted by jen in co 

I think your heart is in the right place but truely, we can only do what is right for our child based on who they are at that moment. I'm never one to suggest that acceleration should be the FIRST choice but I simply don't buy the argument that they will flounder in middle and high school because of age. It's common thought and certainly, countless people warned us based on no real experience or facts. However, we've been through it. We've watched several children go through it. The long range studies support that accelerated children are happier and more satisfied with their childhoods than kids of similar ability who were not given the same options. Besides, we aren't talking radical acceleration here.

I was one who cautioned early entrance to K, but at the same token, I think acceleration can be the appropriate tool and we may eventually consider it for our DS.   Our experience has been that K is a fun year and, in our case, the teachers did a great deal of differentiation for our DS.   We may eventually look at a grade skip for our DS, but for now we're considering a GT center as another option.   In any case, some people do have great luck with early entry and others with grade skips...I would just caution early entry at 4 1/2 for K based on what I've seen of early entrance students in our district. 

Another option to consider for the OP might be skipping K and entering 1st at 5 1/2.  We have a good friend whose DS did that this year and it's been very successful
 

I spoke with his teachers again today at pick up and had a chance to ask about him starting Kindie next year and the teacher suggested this.  She said that he seems to be thriving there at the moment and to re-evaluate at the end of the school year, but she recommended not skipping his next year of preschool as he stands currently, but that he would possibly be a candidate for a future skip.

I know that personally, I would have really benefited from a skip in my early years, but would not have been able to handle it later on in school.  I am just worried that if it will need to happen that it happen earlier rather than later.  I understand that he is still very young, and who knows where he will go, but after speaking to his teachers, other parents of age-mate peers, and searching online for kindie readiness checklists,  he just seems ready to go now, and he still has 8 more months before he could even start.  It just seems that if he is starting to read now, write and has a basic understanding of numbers that he will be so far ahead by the time a year and a half passes that he will be bored in K.

I will definitely ask around about the kindergarten program that he will be in once he goes and the option to offer in-class differentiation and subject acceleration.

Thank-you all for the input and ideas.  I am so curious about which way he will end up heading with all of this, and never in a million years thought I would be worrying about academics at this point in his life.
 

[whatsnextmom]

Also consider that you don't know exactly how fast he'll progress. If you do decide on early enrollment, certainly wait until the last minute to commit. My youngest started picking out words as a toddler and could sound out easy readers at 3 but he was only about second grade level come kindergarten (which is quite workable) and stayed there until after his 7th birthday. At that point, he leapt forward and now reads many grades above in two languages. My DD didn't read anything until after turning 5 but was downing 5th grade level novels a month later. Both test in the 99th+ percentile but both developed very differently and have had very different needs.

You might consider visiting a kindergarten classroom. Often, the standards you read online are far below what is actually happening in class. Take a look at the kids too. In our area, red-shirting is the norm... even to the extreme. There were kids in DS's kindergarten class that turned 7 the same school year he turned 5. This also means that there were many readers, many kids adding/subtracting/multiplying, many kids able to write and spell correctly. Check into how much seat time is involved. Ours still got the kids up and about but I've visited others that required huge amounts of seat time. I'm not trying to disuade you. I'm just giving you some more things to look at.

[eepster]

I didn't read the whole tread, so I maybe repeating a bit.  

We were very much in a similar place ourselves last year.

Early K entrance in public schools is almost impossible to get in many place.  Often there are different regulations for preschool aged students than for K aged students and admitting a younger student will cause all kinds of administration problems.  here there are different teacher student ratios, different vax requirements, different nap time requirements, etc for student under 5 yo than for students over 5 yo.  Early K entrance for the public school is completely impossible.

Private schools can be an option, especially if they have both preschools and kindergarteners.  This year, DS is still attending his Montessori school, which places students from 3yo to 6yo in the same class.  This is actually ideal for DS, since he can work at a K and beyond level while still behaving like a 4yo.

Skipping K and going straight into 1st is a possibility in some public schools.  here, the regulations for student over 5 yo are no different than those for 6 yo and up anyway, so it isn't the same kind of administrative issue.

[elmh23]

In my area, private schools cannot have early entrance either.  Last year, dd entered Jr. K at a private school where she will attend to 8th grade.  The year before there had been a miscommunication with a family and their child was enrolled a year early.  She had to stay the extra year in Jr. K and moved on to Sr. K this year with her age-mates (she's about 6 days younger than my daughter.)  

Our state is very rigid with the age cutoffs!

[Lisa1970]

Home schooling is my only suggestion.

My now 9 yr old has a Sept birthday so he had to wait the extra year to go. But, he was reading chapter books by the time he could start. He was tested at 3rd grade level for reading and end of 1st/beginning 2nd for math. I stupidly sent him to school with them reassuring they would differentiate. They did not. He spent kinder making 100's charts and practicing the alphabet. By the time I did pull him to home school, it was after 2nd, he only tested at 4th grade level for reading and mid 2nd grade for math. He learned just about nothing in school for those 3 yrs.

[Pumpkin_Pie]

Originally Posted by Lisa1970 

Home schooling is my only suggestion.

My now 9 yr old has a Sept birthday so he had to wait the extra year to go. But, he was reading chapter books by the time he could start. He was tested at 3rd grade level for reading and end of 1st/beginning 2nd for math. I stupidly sent him to school with them reassuring they would differentiate. They did not. He spent kinder making 100's charts and practicing the alphabet. By the time I did pull him to home school, it was after 2nd, he only tested at 4th grade level for reading and mid 2nd grade for math. He learned just about nothing in school for those 3 yrs.

I so wish I could homeschool.  I am a single mama and my son's father is not involved in our lives.  I work 4 hours a day, so not full days, but he has to be somewhere while I am at work, and school is pretty much our only option.  I can't afford childcare during work after he turns 5.  We receive state subsidy, so childcare is free for now, but it will not be covered after he is school age, so it isn't financially helping for him to go early, I just want to challenge him.  I may do some enrichment things at home with him anyway, but I hate to think of him going to school for a full day and then working on academics at home.  I just can't quite figure it out.

[LuckyMommaToo]

If he's enjoying where he is now, and the teachers are excited about having him there another year, I wouldn't worry too much. Deal with the K issue when you get there. As it turns out, my DS is quite advanced (reads at 4th grade, is in first), and yet his teacher (same for K and first) has done beautifully at keeping him interested and engaged. And this is just our local public school. DS loves it.

-e

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by elmh23 

In my area, private schools cannot have early entrance either.  Last year, dd entered Jr. K at a private school where she will attend to 8th grade.  The year before there had been a miscommunication with a family and their child was enrolled a year early.  She had to stay the extra year in Jr. K and moved on to Sr. K this year with her age-mates (she's about 6 days younger than my daughter.)  

Our state is very rigid with the age cutoffs!

This is how our state is for K and first and I was very sad about it and tried unsuccessfully to find a way around that.  Now that dd is in second grade I am happy she got the year without the pressure to just be a kid with while exploring reading and learning at home in ways that interested her.  I wouldn't suggest holding a child back to give them that year because I am not convinced that she wouldn't have been as happy now if she was allowed to enter school when she was almost 5, but I also don't think it was as awful as I did a couple years ago.

[juliasmum]

With DD #1 I really didn't realize how far ahead she was of the typical kindergarten student.  She didn't go to preschool so I didn't have an academic group for her to be compared to.  I knew she was a bright kid, but I didn't realize what was the norm at that age (and I used to teach that age, once upon a time!).  I spent most of K and 1 wishing that I could have started her a year ahead.  She was bored but enjoyed the social aspects for the most part.  I had a hard time because the teachers didn't seem to know what to do with her.  Halfway through 1st she started going to a full day pull out program once a week that she absolutely loved.

In 2nd she switched schools that seems to be better at acceleration.  She still does the one day a week pull out program and goes up a grade for reading.  They are trying to work out the schedule so that she can go up for math.  Her class this year has many kids working at a higher level, so the teacher is gearing the teaching and assignments towards the group.  She still isn't challenged but seems to be a little more content with the work.

Now that DD #2 is starting kindergarten next year we are about to go through the same thing.  I wouldn't want to start her early just because of the things quoted above... she would be losing a year of her childhood and kids are pushed to grow up too fast as it is.  I do know now to start asking for acceleration earlier.  There isn't a reason why she shouldn't be able to go up to first grade for reading once January hits and she has adjusted to the elementary school routines and behavior expectations.

And I try to support any interests they have outside of school to keep them challenged.  We will go to the library and they will get books and do projects with the information (this is their idea- I just supply the materials).  And we will visit the museums and aquariums, etc.

[nuttymom]

In our district your child can test into kindergarten if they don't meet the cutoff. It's $500. I go back and forth in wishing that I had done it for my now 8 year old. She was reading at 4, chapter books and second grade level math by 5. It has been a struggle every year to get her teachers up to speed with where she's at. Mostly because we are in public school and the classrooms are overcrowded. She is in a second/ third grade blend this year (she's in second) which has worked out great as she's doing all third grade work at 95 - 100%. They just tested for TAG last week. I don't necessarily think she's gifted. I think she's bright and she likes to challenge herself. I would like her to get into the program though just for something a little more challenging to do.

Only you know your son. Take a meeting with the kindergarten teacher and pick her brain. Do you know any other Moms at that school in a similar situation? They would be a great resource.