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WWYD? DD quit ballet and we had to pay for it. - Page 5

post #81 of 97

 

I think paying for class herself is a reasonable logical consequence. Back at the beginning of the thread you were concerned about the fact that this would pretty much empty her account. May be staying very positive about the whole thing would be helpful for her.

1 she stuck with the same activity for 4 years!

2 she had a lot of fun and has some happy memories.

3 she really tried to make it work. She's a very determined person.

4 she can gradually replace the money. May be she could do extra jobs around the house.

5 she'll learn a lot from the whole experience. Some times we learn the most through bumpy experiences. May be this will help her learn to trust her gut.

Peace!
post #82 of 97

I'd demand a full refund from the studio, they made it comfortable for your daughter.

post #83 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by JennaW View Post

Also, as for the "gym membership analogy", I think a more comparable analogy would be this: I have been attending a yoga class for 4 years, I overall have seemed to really enjoy it but start to not enjoy it so much.  I'm always complaining about it before I go to my DH, sometimes I just refuse to go even though my DH has made arrangements to be home early from work and make dinner.  It comes time to sign up for the class again.  My DH comes to me and says "It seems like you aren't really enjoying that class anymore, it's pretty expensive, are you sure you want to keep going?  Sometimes its hard for me to get home from work early for you to go, I don't mind doing this if you enjoy it but it makes me feel sort of resentful when you are always complaining about it." I get upset with him and tell him I want to go! He says "Okay, okay, I just want to make sure before we spend this money but really I'm kind of tired of hearing you complain about it all the time." I start going to the class again, I keep complaining. I buy myself a new mat and yoga clothes with family funds, my DH comments how expensive these things are, especially for something I don't seem to be enjoying.  I quit the class with plenty of pre-paid sessions left and my new clothes and mat are no longer being used.  If I had a special bank account of my own where I saved up birthday money and money I had earned for side jobs, would it be unreasonable for my DH to ask me to replace the family funds?  I don't think it would be.


This made me realize something. I think that some people are fearing that future classes will be handled by the OP by reminding her dd how she quit ballet. Maybe because there are parents like that out there who would hold this situation over their kid's head. There are parents who would've insisted their kid continue for 4 years after the kid wanted to quit in the first month. (Who had the euphonium addict mother? Seriously 6 years??)

 

 

 

 

 



Future classes will be a fresh start.

I feel like the way I'm handling it will make it possible for her to know I will never shut her down when she says she wants to do something, but it will make her think about it and realize that she will have some responsibility involved.

post #84 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

 

I think paying for class herself is a reasonable logical consequence. Back at the beginning of the thread you were concerned about the fact that this would pretty much empty her account. May be staying very positive about the whole thing would be helpful for her.

1 she stuck with the same activity for 4 years!

2 she had a lot of fun and has some happy memories.

3 she really tried to make it work. She's a very determined person.

4 she can gradually replace the money. May be she could do extra jobs around the house.

5 she'll learn a lot from the whole experience. Some times we learn the most through bumpy experiences. May be this will help her learn to trust her gut.

Peace!



Those are all of things I want for her.

I think this really will help her think about her own feelings; what she wants and doesnt want.

It will reinforce that she gets choices, but not every thing is as simple as "I dont wanna- so I'm not!"

 

She also wound up getting $50 from MIL for Christmas and I told her Daddy and I would be splitting the cost of the ballet money. This leaves her with $100 again, back at square one. She is pretty savy though, and would have preffered $150.

 

I am being positive about it. I asked her how she felt about not having to go to ballet last Fri.

Instead of being torn between still wanting to do ballet, but not wanting to go, she was happy she didnt have to go, but disappointed she was out the cash. So atleast this has brought us out something that wasnt moving forward. She is relieved and accepts the way it went down.

She is past it and now doesnt feel sad about "missing ballet" (atleast right now). I also like the fact that she doesnt feel like I took ballet away from her. It was all up to her.

I've decided to put the $50 toward our weekly produce for the family. I feel that I cant wait to think of something more clever and it has to be something now instead of later. I dont want to have this hanging over her head. I dont know how she will feel about. I'll update later what happens when I tell her.

Oh and also- that was her spending money account. NOT the money I have put away for her. She gets an allowance every week (unrelated to cleaning her room or little chores I ask her to do around the house. That is for her to spend. She also has the opportunity to work at MIL's salon and sweep hair to make money. She doesnt feel like it.

Im pretty sure she'll take that offer up one day though.

 

 

 

 

post #85 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by catfood View Post

I'd demand a full refund from the studio, they made it comfortable for your daughter.



I wouldn't. The studio is very clear about their policies, and their policies are reasonable and standard. I would *ask,* but I wouldn't demand.

 

The feeling of discomfort is coming from INSIDE the girl, not being inflicted on her by others. Her mom is pretty sure she has some sensory and anxiety issues. My DD has similar issues, and sometimes things just don't work. Parenting in these situations is very tricky,but it isn't any body's fault. 

post #86 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catfood View Post

I'd demand a full refund from the studio, they made it comfortable for your daughter.



Yes, this has nothing to do with the school or the teacher.

post #87 of 97

OP i'm so glad you guys worked it out, it sounds like you did a great job on this one! :)

 

*raises hand* i'm the one with the euphonium addict mother, but there is more to the story.

 

My mother was the 3rd of 4 kids, two older sisters (the eldest of whom was terribly damaged at birth, lived in an institution and died age 18), and a younger brother (who died age 2 when mum was 5, of a choking accident in his highchair).

 

So the older surviving sister was given piano lessons (which she didn't much want).  She skipped class, didn't practice and wasted the money her (of modest means) parents spent.  My mum wanted desperately to learn piano, her mother refused to spend the money because of how her sister had wasted it.

 

Fast forward...i was 8.  My parents called the school and said they'd like me to try some instruments (i had no objection or preference -i didn't want to learn an instrument and yet was curious enough to want to try new things).  I tried the flute.  I could get a sound out of it, but had no particular affinity with it.  After 2 lessons my teacher suggested we try something else as i was obviously having issues.  I should say here that my father has Aspergers, amusia and SPD and i had both the latter but have mostly outgrown/overcome the SPD, but my mother was very musical, in a choir etc.  Whenever my musical inabilities shone she made excuses, got mad or insisted i needed to try harder, i think she died thinking i could have cured my amusia if only i'd tried "properly".  I moved to saxaphone, for 6 weeks i played it, then i wanted to quit and the teacher agreed with me, again, because it's quite hard and boring to play an instrument when one is tone deaf!  I could read the music.  I could play the notes.  I couldn't particularly hear very well what i was playing, i could learn the notations but never remember how it was meant to sound even after many many playings.  A few weeks later i was taken, with my class, to the brass room and given a trumpet to try.  I couldn't get a sound out of it, but the tenor horn i could.  That night i was informed i would be having horn lessons weekly and "not quitting this time".  I vividly remember feeling nauseous with dread, sobbing for hours and begging my older siblings to help me convince my mother to not make me.  They tried and failed.

 

For 6 years i played.  I learned pieces up to grade 5 or 6 level but never sat my certificates because the first part of the exam was to sing a note played on the piano, and i could never do it, and nor could i tune my instrument.  God knows how my poor teachers coped teaching a musically impaired, unwilling but conscientious child year after year after year...they weren't paid enough!  I asked to quit at least once a year.  One teacher, after i failed a trial grade 2 exam due to the piano/note issue, called and told my mother that after 3 years i was making very little progress and was not suited to the instrument.  My mother merely insisted i practice an extra 4 hours a week.  She had a way of asking what i wanted to do which guaranteed i gave the answer she wanted to hear.  She never hit me, she barely shouted at me, but i feared her and her disapproval.  I was once even convinced to join her choir so she could have the youngest daughter in the "adult" choir when i was 9.  She said i "sang like a lark"!  SERIOUSLY.  Then after a few scores of my tuneless warbling she made up an excuse and took me home again, bathed in shame.

 

Eventually when i was 14 i just decided enough was enough and i HAD to quit, it was wasting hours of my life i wanted to spend studying, with friends, horseriding (which i was actually GOOD at).  I made no technical progress beyond being able to read more complicated scores from age 9 to age 14.  I never got a sweet sound out of it.  I never played anything not mechanical and dead sounding (i am told).  I never had a moment of joy at being able to play it.  My teacher gave me a relieved smile when i said i wanted to quit, and told me to leave my (hired) instrument in the store room and that was that.  Mum was in a bad mood with me for about 6 weeks (she bore a powerful grudge) and then it was never mentioned again.

 

As an adult i can see that 1) she "gave" me the lessons she desperately wanted but never got, 2) she refused to let me quit to get back at the sister whose quitting cost her HER chance at playing and 3) she decided at some point when i was a baby who i was and what i liked and even quite startling evidence to the contrary didn't phase her.  Horseriding was a true passion for me, and yet she never saw me compete or even jump at home, she watched a few lessons when i was little and that was that.  She was not at all proud of or even interested in my very real achievements there.  Ironically i tried to please her until i was 18 and then quite suddenly i stopped.  She was VERY angry for about 3 months, but i was away at university so i only encountered her rage once a week on the phone.  Then she got over it and decided that actually she liked the Real Me much better.  

 

I learned so much from that experience.  When i see something my kids might like i make sure to figure out if it is for THEM or for me.  I pay close attention to what DD is *actually* interested in/good at, rather than what i think she will/should be (like when we went to the beach and after i asked 3 times i realised it was ME who wanted a ride on a donkey, not DD!).  I would never press my child to do something they hated, and if i feel the strong burning urge for them to try or do something i examine it closely to see if actually it is ME who wants to do it.

 

My mother would NEVER have offered me the chance to pay for the classes instead of going to them, because she knew i would do so gladly, gratefully, in a heartbeat.  I really, seriously, wish she had just bought HERSELF piano lessons.

post #88 of 97

I think you did great, OP.

 

Very reasonable.

post #89 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post

I learned so much from that experience.  When i see something my kids might like i make sure to figure out if it is for THEM or for me.  I pay close attention to what DD is *actually* interested in/good at, rather than what i think she will/should be (like when we went to the beach and after i asked 3 times i realised it was ME who wanted a ride on a donkey, not DD!).  I would never press my child to do something they hated, and if i feel the strong burning urge for them to try or do something i examine it closely to see if actually it is ME who wants to do it.

 

My mother would NEVER have offered me the chance to pay for the classes instead of going to them, because she knew i would do so gladly, gratefully, in a heartbeat.  I really, seriously, wish she had just bought HERSELF piano lessons.


Your story is so touching, GoBecGo. Thanks for sharing it more fully. I'm going to remember this one. 

post #90 of 97

I have a policy based on my little brother always stopping activities, and now he is a flake.  No way saying this will happen to you.  I also have a sensitive daughter.  We have to finish what we start. 

 

I also have had struggles getting ready for soft ball and soccer, at 6.5 years.  Now we are doing girls scouts, and selling cookies is like pulling teeth.  But we have to understand, that wearing a cool uniform, or going to fun activities, includes a bit of work.  That is hard to teach a young child, but I figure this will help instill it. 

 

I am not a drill seargent however.  I do it as gently as possible, sometimes helping to put on shoes where I usually would not, or telling her after she can watch a nice movie of hers, or pack a special food item she likes.  Sometimes she is bored there, but most times she likes it once she is there.

 

Good luck

post #91 of 97

I took ballet from age three untill I was 19! 

 

I remember a time when I would do exactly as your daughter was and it was because the teacher had been telling me I was too fat to take point class like the rest of my classmates and was riding me really hard about well.. everything.  It got to the point that my friends were whispering about me in the changeroom because the teacher talked about me to them.  She would tell them to pressure me to stop eating. 

 

I was 13 at the time.

 

I never told anyone about this because I was embarrased and hurt.

 

Lucky for me the teacher was such so sure of her "teaching" style that she called my parents and told them to put me on a diet.  For the record I was NOT overweight.  I was however going through puberty so my balance was off and I was growing breast.  Duh right?!  My parents IMMEDIATELY pulled me from lessons at this studio and found a more healthy environment for me to continue my passion for dance.  The issues of temper tantrums and battles to get ready and get in the car stopped instantly and I continued to LOVE dance for many many years and I still do. 

 

I share this only to give you another perspective. 

 

Good luck!!!

post #92 of 97

GoBecGo: Thank you for sharing your story. I know a man with a similar background (parents both professional musicians, but he's completely tone deaf). His mom is still alive, and their relationship is still trashed by her disappointment in him and belief that he just didn't try hard enough, etc.

post #93 of 97


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewls9791 View Post

I took ballet from age three untill I was 19! 

 

I remember a time when I would do exactly as your daughter was and it was because the teacher had been telling me I was too fat to take point class like the rest of my classmates and was riding me really hard about well.. everything.  It got to the point that my friends were whispering about me in the changeroom because the teacher talked about me to them.  She would tell them to pressure me to stop eating. 

 

I was 13 at the time.

 

I never told anyone about this because I was embarrased and hurt.

 

Lucky for me the teacher was such so sure of her "teaching" style that she called my parents and told them to put me on a diet.  For the record I was NOT overweight.  I was however going through puberty so my balance was off and I was growing breast.  Duh right?!  My parents IMMEDIATELY pulled me from lessons at this studio and found a more healthy environment for me to continue my passion for dance.  The issues of temper tantrums and battles to get ready and get in the car stopped instantly and I continued to LOVE dance for many many years and I still do. 

 

I share this only to give you another perspective. 

 

Good luck!!!


Just seconding this perspective. You mentioned, OP, that your daughter is not small. Is she bigger than many of the kids in her class (taller, maybe more athletically built?). Just wondering, because I had a lot of fear around ballet at that age, for reasons similar to the ones listed above, though my teachers were much more subtle... might be worth digging further into the class dynamics for some perspective of what's causing this sudden about face...

post #94 of 97

This is a hard on and we had a similar situation last fall. In the end I think that it will be too hard for you to take her against her will and too hard for her to go if she made up her mind. I am not sure if money means anything to her, so taking the money from her bank account might not even cause her a second thought. What about writing a list of what the class cost and give her a chaoice of either "working it off" with extra chores or say no to every item she wants (ice cream, carussel ride, cute t-Shirt) and take that amount off the list until she has paid it. This would be a consequence my 6.5 year old would understand.

post #95 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2happy View Post

 

Things is, she could care less about time with friends. She is a very introverted. Also, when she rages, she honestly cares less about what she loses.

At wits end from dealing with her rage and tantrums, I have resorted to this approach and I can honestly say it makes things so much worse.

She realizes when she has nothing to lose it's a free for all. She has even told me clearly "I don't CARE what you could ever take- take it ALL". I know she means it. 


OK, this sounds a lot like my older daughter when she was younger.  And actually my younger daughter now, but in a different way.  My younger daughter, 7,  is pretty explosive, and if you give her a consequence, suddenly the thing you want to take away is the enemy.  So if I say, "Look, you really need to put your toys away before you go to bed tonight, or some of them will be going in the trash (like the little plastic things she gets from wherever and leaves all over for days), she'll blow up and say, "FINE, I'll throw it away NOW!"  Then she stomps over to the trash can and throws toys away that she was just playing with, not the ones that were left out from before.  And then when I ask why she is doing that, she says I obviously want them in the trash.  With her I feel like she is incredibly strong-willed and willing to fight to get her own way.

 

My older daughter would have these periods where it just felt like she couldn't do what I was asking of her, and it felt like she just couldn't cope, so I gave her a little leeway.  So if she dropped something right in the middle of the floor, and I asked her to pick it up, she might have a meltdown, but later when she was calmer, she'd put it away.  I would sign her up for things like the Little Gym or swim lessons and she'd want to do it, but then when the time came to go to the class, she didn't want to go, it was boring, etc., and if I pushed her on it, she'd get increasingly agitated and fight going.  Sometimes I'd let her miss, but then she would want to do things that she couldn't miss, like a play where she agreed to be there before she took the part.  For swim lessons, I just had to give a one month notice, but it got strung along for awhile.  She missed a lot of classes, but then I gave the one month notice and she started wanting to go, but it was too late.

 

So the bottom line would be that taking the money out of her bank account is probably worth it to her at this point.  If she says take it all, it's because the money doesn't have the same meaning to her that it does to us.  At least that's how it is with us; my kids ultimately know if they want to do something and are dedicated, I'll pay for them to do it, and I end up buying them things too, so they don't get the whole money thing.  They do get their own money to spend, and I think they are more judicious with it, but my older daughter only seems to really made a conscious attempt to save up for something in the last year, and even while she is saving, she'll ask me to take her to Starbucks.  

 

Right now, if you need the money more than she needs it in her account, take it.  Or just leave it in her account for later, but don't let her spend it.  Then when she talks about wanting this or that, with these whims of iron that many children have, you can bring up the price of this and compare it to a dance lesson or a recital costume and do the whole, "resources are limited, we have to choose carefully" talk, and maybe that will help in the longterm.  Because my daughters would say, "Yeah, I want to do it, sign me up again" when we were there doing the lesson, but when it came time to go to the class, they would still put up a fight, and then tell me I should just cancel it and get my money back--they really didn't get it at that age. 

post #96 of 97
Thread Starter 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viola View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2happy View Post

 

Things is, she could care less about time with friends. She is a very introverted. Also, when she rages, she honestly cares less about what she loses.

At wits end from dealing with her rage and tantrums, I have resorted to this approach and I can honestly say it makes things so much worse.

She realizes when she has nothing to lose it's a free for all. She has even told me clearly "I don't CARE what you could ever take- take it ALL". I know she means it. 


OK, this sounds a lot like my older daughter when she was younger.  And actually my younger daughter now, but in a different way.  My younger daughter, 7,  is pretty explosive, and if you give her a consequence, suddenly the thing you want to take away is the enemy.  So if I say, "Look, you really need to put your toys away before you go to bed tonight, or some of them will be going in the trash (like the little plastic things she gets from wherever and leaves all over for days), she'll blow up and say, "FINE, I'll throw it away NOW!"  Then she stomps over to the trash can and throws toys away that she was just playing with, not the ones that were left out from before.  And then when I ask why she is doing that, she says I obviously want them in the trash.  With her I feel like she is incredibly strong-willed and willing to fight to get her own way.

 

My older daughter would have these periods where it just felt like she couldn't do what I was asking of her, and it felt like she just couldn't cope, so I gave her a little leeway.  So if she dropped something right in the middle of the floor, and I asked her to pick it up, she might have a meltdown, but later when she was calmer, she'd put it away.  I would sign her up for things like the Little Gym or swim lessons and she'd want to do it, but then when the time came to go to the class, she didn't want to go, it was boring, etc., and if I pushed her on it, she'd get increasingly agitated and fight going.  Sometimes I'd let her miss, but then she would want to do things that she couldn't miss, like a play where she agreed to be there before she took the part.  For swim lessons, I just had to give a one month notice, but it got strung along for awhile.  She missed a lot of classes, but then I gave the one month notice and she started wanting to go, but it was too late.

 

So the bottom line would be that taking the money out of her bank account is probably worth it to her at this point.  If she says take it all, it's because the money doesn't have the same meaning to her that it does to us.  At least that's how it is with us; my kids ultimately know if they want to do something and are dedicated, I'll pay for them to do it, and I end up buying them things too, so they don't get the whole money thing.  They do get their own money to spend, and I think they are more judicious with it, but my older daughter only seems to really made a conscious attempt to save up for something in the last year, and even while she is saving, she'll ask me to take her to Starbucks.  

 

Right now, if you need the money more than she needs it in her account, take it.  Or just leave it in her account for later, but don't let her spend it.  Then when she talks about wanting this or that, with these whims of iron that many children have, you can bring up the price of this and compare it to a dance lesson or a recital costume and do the whole, "resources are limited, we have to choose carefully" talk, and maybe that will help in the longterm.  Because my daughters would say, "Yeah, I want to do it, sign me up again" when we were there doing the lesson, but when it came time to go to the class, they would still put up a fight, and then tell me I should just cancel it and get my money back--they really didn't get it at that age. 



I was trying to get across that when she is in the heat of the moment she doesn't care what she loses. She basically loses any rational thought whatsoever.

 

As far as the money goes. She gets it. She is a bit of a hoarder and she counts her cash every once in a while. She has purchased several things from stores and is aware of what a lot of things cost.

This also wasn't a heat of the moment decision. I worked with her for months on this issue and this was the talked about agreed upon final outcome.

She wound up getting more money and gets an allowance. She has more cash than I had till I was a teenager and got a job!

Of course I feel bad to take anything from her. I only want happiness and peace for her. She just keeps doing so many of the same things over until there is a real boundary set.

Just letting things go doesn't work with this DD. She seems to NEED consequences to be able to control herself sometimes.

Do I technically need her $50? No, but I feel like I have to this to make some impact in her mind that the behavior she had was not okay.

post #97 of 97

My kids are like this too, I know it's not that unusual.  I often wonder aloud why it is kids seem to have no self preservation instinct.  Oh well, glad you worked it out.

Originally Posted by mom2happy View Post



I was trying to get across that when she is in the heat of the moment she doesn't care what she loses. She basically loses any rational thought whatsoever.

 

 

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