Seeking Advice for 4 Yr Old DD with recurrent UTIs

[bkosten]

Hello there, everyone. I have been gleaning information from these forums for a few years now. Thanks to everyone who has contributed. This is an amazing resource to have. 

I finally decided to join because we have been going through a lot of health issues with my DD, just recently turned 4. She recently had some major dental work done. We went through the agony of trying to determine whether or not it was really necessary to put her through surgery for cavities, but in the end, after multiple consultations with dentists in our area, we felt we had no other choice. 

At that point, I become seriously concerned about her health. I felt that if her teeth were not healthy, she was not healthy. We began to make some changes to our diet. Though I had felt that we ate pretty healthy before, I researched the Westin Price diet and realized that we needed to make some changes. 

Soon after her surgery, I felt certain that she had a UTI.  She had been having accidents for weeks, so many that I felt it necessary to put her back in pull-ups, and her urine was starting to smell funny. Sure enough, the test at the ped. revealed that she did have an infection, and they put her on antibiotics. Funny thing was, the medication did not last the full 10 days. I even tested my dropper to make sure it was accurate, and it was, but in 8 days, the bottle was empty. We were on vacation at the time, so I did not try to deal with it as perhaps I should have. 

In two weeks, I again felt that she must have another infection. A 2nd trip to the ped, and sure enough, another infection. The nurse-practitioner immediately set up an appointment for my daughter to have an ultrasound and VCUG, but when she came and talked to me about it, I told her I was not ready to do it yet, so she cancelled and instead asked us to come back in 10 days. 

Ten days later, another urine test reveals that my DD still has blood in her urine. So the doc insists that she either go for the tests or visit a urologist immediately. She has not had an accident for three days now. 

I have to say that my daughter has had frequent "set-backs" in potty training this past year (or so I thought.) She might have no accidents for a few weeks and then have a week or two after where she barely went to the potty at all. There were no other symptoms, but I am wondering if she could possibly have had other UTIs that I was not aware of. 

However, I am just not ready to go through with the tests. I have read plenty about how horrible they are and after everything we just went through with the dental surgery, my DD has been through a lot. But if her health is going to be compromised, I know we need to do something. I have been making her drink water and 100% pure cranberry juice like crazy and even tried giving her some baking soda today in a drink, but I do not know what else to do. What does it mean that blood is in her urine? Does that mean that there is still an infection? I am not crazy about antibiotics in the first place, but thinking of putting her on them for a long period of time sounds really off-base to me. That has to be terrible for one's health. So if she does happen to have VUR, are there any natural alternatives?

I am also wondering if there could be a relation between the deep cavities and the UTIs. If her body is having such a hard time fighting off bacteria, it seems that I need to be giving her something to help her immune system. I am deeply burdened, losing a lot of sleep and weight over this matter. Can anyone help me? 

[kjbrown92]

Another thing for her to drink is water with lemon in it. It alkalizes the pee, and it's hard for bacteria to stick. (I've been on abx for about 8 years straight so I have a little experience with UTIs; but I have a compressed nerve.) I don't remember any of the tests being painful or uncomfortable and I've had CT scans on my kidneys, IVPs, fills/releases to test muscle function, etc. Is she on any medication? I'm trying to figure out why she's suddenly having them when she didn't before. It seems like something must have changed. Like maybe a drug that is causing retention or something. Or did the abx give her stomach issues (did you do probiotics during or after?) and she's just not wiping well enough? Sometimes if you're constipated, then a little can leak out and get on her underpants, then get to the urethra, etc. I'm just trying to figure out alternate causes out loud....

[springmum]

My son had something called Hypercalciuria. Essentially his body pulls the calcium from his bones and  dumps  it in his urine. It causes bladder spasms, recurring UTI's and kidney stones if left unchecked. The ONLY way I discovered something was wrong, was b/c when he would eat/drink a high calcium source of food his urine would turn cloudy a few hours later. He did in fact get a UTI after trying him on a 1/4 cup of goat milk.

Managing his diet is the only way to prevent further difficulties. 

After seeing the dr I learned there are a higher number of people who don't know the have this.

He needed a special urine test to test calcium & crean...? as regular tests are really very basic.

Just thought I'd share in case it rings any bells for you.

[bkosten]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. 

My DD may have in fact had UTIs before now and I just did not realize it. She had a lot of what I thought were just "setbacks" in potty training, when in retrospect, I am now wondering if there was an underlying cause such as an infection. I'll definitely try the lemon in water. 

She has been very constipated, which the doctor suggested could be an underlying cause of the UTI's. I am trying to learn more about probiotics. I don't know what to give her, but I am trying to research this matter, especially since she has been on so many antibiotics for these infections the past few weeks. 

[kwilki8]

Originally Posted by bkosten 
My DD may have in fact had UTIs before now and I just did not realize it. She had a lot of what I thought were just "setbacks" in potty training, when in retrospect, I am now wondering if there was an underlying cause such as an infection. I'll definitely try the lemon in water. 

She has been very constipated, which the doctor suggested could be an underlying cause of the UTI's.

This sounds so much like my dd at that age (she's almost 6 now). What I didn't know at that time is that UTIs in young children frequently have no real symptoms, except for accidents, so I also think we overlooked recurring infections when she was small.

Chronic constipation is associated with UTIs--when my dd started seeing her ped. urologist, that was the first issue we addressed. It helped with the potty training issues but didn't resolve the problem entirely because my dd does have VUR.

Honestly, at this point I would see a urologist and consider the VCUG, because I would want to make sure that there is no kidney involvement or take steps to protect the kidneys from infection if reflux is an issue. Our first indication of my dd's problems was a kidney infection, and it was horrible; she's never been so sick. If you decide to have the testing done, you might want to look into seeing if there is a children's hospital where it can be done. My dd has had two, one at our local hospital and one at the children's hospital, and it made a big difference in her comfort level to be at the children's hospital. It's not a pleasant test, but it wasn't horrible, either--I think I was more upset by it than she was.

There are different treatment options if she does have VUR; prophylactic antibiotics are not the only route. We did opt for the abx for my dd because we were hoping she would outgrow the reflux, but we are starting to look at other options for her as it doesn't seem that will happen.

[bkosten]

I set up an appt. with the urologist, and he is at a children's hospital in the area. kwilki8 , thanks for your post. Did your daughter undergo the tests with no sedation? I'm sure you can relate to the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach right now. :(

[tinuviel_k]

Just a thought that might help...

Does your daughter do her own wipes after using the potty (both pee and poop) or do you do them for her?

I have seen SO MANY little girls suffer from repeat UTIs because of improper wiping habits. A good friend of mine's daughter had five UTIs before her doctor thought to ask if it was mama or the little girl doing the wiping. Mama started wiping and the UTIs disappeared.

It can be really difficult for little girls to grasp the concept of front-to-back wiping, and even when they do grasp how it can be a very hard reach for short arms. Wiping the wrong way after a BM (or doing a second wipe with the same piece of toilet paper) can introduce fecal bacteria into the urethra and cause an infection. Likewise: it a bottom does not get clean after a BM then you can have the same thing happen when wiping later after urinating. If it keeps happening over and over you get repeat infections.

[bkosten]

Thanks for that thought. Actually, I would have to say it has been a half and half…I do it most of the time, but sometimes she goes without telling me and I find out a while later…I called a friend today who is a doctor and he actually brought this point up, too, so I am going to watch that a bit more closely. I have also read that baths can cause UTI's…can anyone confirm? My DD loves her baths and I hate to take them away (no bubbles, of course). My doctor friend was also shocked that they had only given her amoxicillin for her infection. He thought this was not strong enough for an E Coli infection…so I'm going to have another talk with the doc tomorrow. 

On another note, I just found out that my DD's cousin (my husband's brother's daughter) had VUR. I hope this is not a silly question, but does anyone know if there is a chance that this is hereditary? 

Right now, I do not think my DD has an infection. They told me there was still blood in her urine, but there is no smell and her accidents have stopped, except for at night. 

Which brings me to another point…she had severe constipation before, and the Ped had me giving her Miralax, which helped. But now, a week later, she seems to be blocking up again. I have cut out all her milk and absolutely no chocolate for now, but can anyone give me some more natural ideas to help her. I don't want a reoccuring UTI simply because of constipation issues again, but I do not want to stay on Miralax, either. Any ideas? 

[allnaturalmom]

I don't have a lot of time, but wanted to respond. Get your dd on a good probiotic. We use Natren's Healthy Trinity. Not only can it help boost her immune system, but it will help w/constipation, too. If constipation is still an issue, our hcp recommended magnesium... almost tasteless powder mixed in juice - does wonders. Our hcp also recommended cod liver oil to boost the immune system. For daily maintenance, or for when you think a uti is coming on he recommended d-mannose supplement... clear powder mixed in water... easy to get down. You can also supplement w/silver - I have had good results with it.

Also, no baths just showers - every night. I do all the wiping (or supervise the wiping) except for when dd is at preschool. Our regular doctor has used amoxicillin for uti because dd is allergic to the other more commonly used uti antibiotic - can't think of it right now. Even with all of these things there is still no guarantee, and I'm sure there are other things to use and consider - these are what we do/use. Oh, almost forgot - my dd is 3.

gl

hth

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by bkosten 

Thanks for that thought. Actually, I would have to say it has been a half and half…I do it most of the time, but sometimes she goes without telling me and I find out a while later…I called a friend today who is a doctor and he actually brought this point up, too, so I am going to watch that a bit more closely. I have also read that baths can cause UTI's…can anyone confirm? My DD loves her baths and I hate to take them away (no bubbles, of course). My doctor friend was also shocked that they had only given her amoxicillin for her infection. He thought this was not strong enough for an E Coli infection…so I'm going to have another talk with the doc tomorrow. 

On another note, I just found out that my DD's cousin (my husband's brother's daughter) had VUR. I hope this is not a silly question, but does anyone know if there is a chance that this is hereditary? 

Right now, I do not think my DD has an infection. They told me there was still blood in her urine, but there is no smell and her accidents have stopped, except for at night. 

Which brings me to another point…she had severe constipation before, and the Ped had me giving her Miralax, which helped. But now, a week later, she seems to be blocking up again. I have cut out all her milk and absolutely no chocolate for now, but can anyone give me some more natural ideas to help her. I don't want a reoccuring UTI simply because of constipation issues again, but I do not want to stay on Miralax, either. Any ideas? 

No baths.

And the kind of antibiotic is completely dependent on the bacteria culture. It has nothing to do with "strength" of the abx. What kind of doctor is your friend? Every UTI should be cultured to make sure that you have the right abx for the bacteria. Length of time that you're on the abx can differ, and dosage amounts may differ, which may be what your friend was talking about, but type of abx is based on the culture.

Have you tried removing gluten from her diet? That would be the most likely guess after dairy (while keeping dairy out as well).
 

[bkosten]

Are you trying to say that a food allergy could cause UTIs? Interesting thought. A gluten-free diet is totally foreign to me, so I'll need to research that one. 

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by bkosten 

Are you trying to say that a food allergy could cause UTIs? Interesting thought. A gluten-free diet is totally foreign to me, so I'll need to research that one. 

 No, I'm saying gluten could be causing the constipation, and so on. Not that gluten directly causes UTIs. A friend of mine in FL - his little girl kept getting UTIs which were primarily caused by constipation, and removing gluten from the diet fixed the constipation, which then fixed the UTIs.

[bkosten]

Thanks for clarifying, kjbrown92 ! That totally makes sense. I'm going to start a food diary with her. I ordered some D-Mannose, and am still researching probiotics. Someone earlier mentioned Natren's Healthy Trinity, but that kind is SO expensive. I thought maybe there was another kind that was a little more affordable and still high quality. Any suggestions? 

[quietserena]

Originally Posted by bkosten 

Thanks for clarifying, kjbrown92 ! That totally makes sense. I'm going to start a food diary with her. I ordered some D-Mannose, and am still researching probiotics. Someone earlier mentioned Natren's Healthy Trinity, but that kind is SO expensive. I thought maybe there was another kind that was a little more affordable and still high quality. Any suggestions? 

Grow your own?  If you werent dairy free id suggest kefir, but since you are, maybe water kefir?  Kombucha?  Kim chi? Sauerkraut?  Bubbe's pickles?  Any of those need to be raw of course, need the live bacteria.

So sorry you are having to deal with all this.  I hope it all gets better soon!

[kjbrown92]

we make coconut milk yogurt. And I've made my own sauerkraut (but Bubbies is better).

[bkosten]

Wow, after all this, I called the ped. yesterday and they admitted that her culture was normal. No infection! I decided to cancel the urologist appt. for now and take a more wait and see approach while I try to control her diet and hygiene habits carefully. Meanwhile, we are going to a chiropractor who specializes in nutrition and supporting the immune system. He is a BioSET practitioner, so I am excited and very hopeful for some insight. (Here for info: http://www.Drellencutler.com/)

DD is constipated again, despite the fact I am forcing water down her every few minutes. Today I got some prune juice and flax seeds, so we'll see if I can work some magic with that stuff! Thanks for all the tips, everyone. 

[Virginia Mom]

We're going thru something similar with my own daughter. One thing I just learned, ask for copies of her labs....not just the lab that shows E coli is present, but the report that shows the antiobiotic sensitivity.....so you can see for yourself which meds will kill the infection.  We're on our 5th med.......after two ecoli infections, and now a new bug, which is very drug resistant.........we're doing D Mannose and even doing Thuja (homeopathy) in the am............along with some hard core meds (Macrobid---ultra expensive even after insurance processed)

We did a baseline ultrasound to check kidneys (not the more invasive one though)........

What's going on with your DD now?

[bkosten]

Oh, I totally empathize with you, Virginia Mom! This process is so frustrating and stressful. My DD has been UTI free for almost two weeks now. If she does get an infection, it won't be because we weren't trying…I have been making her drink tons of fluids, including the 100% all natural cranberry juice. She has also been eating prunes regularly, lots of vitamin C, no milk, and very little sugar. Showers every night, and I'm trying to keep her focused on going to the potty regularly and completely going when she does (also doing the wiping myself). It takes real concentration, but if I can keep her UTI free, it will be worth it. The homeopathic chiropractor that I mentioned previously emphasized the fact that he believed her to be dehydrated. He also gave her UriPro. We go back in one week and I guess we'll see what he has to say then. I'm honestly terrified that if I slip up for one day (don't fit in that shower, let her eat candy…etc) , the infection will come back. But so far so good!