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post #21 of 34

I don't think you are crazy, but it DOES sound like you have an anxiety problem. You cannot prepare for anything in life. You really can't. All of the tactics for surviving "the end of the world" have been based on a fictional idea of what the end of the world might be like. We have certain expectations of what will break down, what will still be available, and which shortages we will experience. The world could "end" when our food sources become contaminated (some or all). It could end when our energy sources are comporomised. It could end due to biological warfare. Or someone may nuke us. Or we'll all die of cancer. Or......heck, you may step outside tomorrow and get hit by a bus. You simply can't be prepared for what you have no control over. Trust the Universe (or God. Or both) and live in love, not fear. You will drive yourself crazy thinking about the "what ifs". Enjoy the NOW. Focus on positive thinking and invite positive experiences. You will always attract what you think about most.

post #22 of 34
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toposlonoshlep View Post

I don't think you are crazy, but it DOES sound like you have an anxiety problem. You cannot prepare for anything in life. You really can't. All of the tactics for surviving "the end of the world" have been based on a fictional idea of what the end of the world might be like. We have certain expectations of what will break down, what will still be available, and which shortages we will experience. The world could "end" when our food sources become contaminated (some or all). It could end when our energy sources are comporomised. It could end due to biological warfare. Or someone may nuke us. Or we'll all die of cancer. Or......heck, you may step outside tomorrow and get hit by a bus. You simply can't be prepared for what you have no control over. Trust the Universe (or God. Or both) and live in love, not fear. You will drive yourself crazy thinking about the "what ifs". Enjoy the NOW. Focus on positive thinking and invite positive experiences. You will always attract what you think about most.

 

I do not agree that I cannot prepare for anything in life.  I live in an area prone to high snowfall.  In my mind it would be foolish not to be prepared to be without power for a week or so.  I keep food, a kerosene heater with fuel, batteries, extra blankets, water, and other supplies on hand in order to be prepared for that type of situation.  I'm not prepared for it to continue indefinitely, but to not have the basics to take care of my family in an emergency is (IMO) irresponsible and a denial of the realities of life.  Hurricaine Katrina victims are a perfect example of not being prepared for the situations in which they may find themselves.  There's not much you can do if a hurricane flattens your house, but there are elements of that disaster that people who live in that area can, and should, be equipped to handle.

 

That said, I know I can't prepare for everything.  And I'm not truly trying to prepare for the "end of the world".  I just want the peace of mind of knowing my family isn't so reliant on others for our basic day-to-day survival.  I don't generally fall into the trap of "what if" thinking, but the dream I had reminded me that there is much more that I can do to take care of my family.  Even if "the end" never comes, I want the satisfaction of knowing we make/raise our own food, produce our own clean power, and tread more lightly on the earth.  I don't believe that God intended people to live the way we currently do, and we abuse His gifts with our wasteful lifestyles.  I'm looking for my way out, my way back to a more simple, responsible life.

post #23 of 34


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by diana_of_the_dunes View Post

 

That said, I know I can't prepare for everything.  And I'm not truly trying to prepare for the "end of the world".  I just want the peace of mind of knowing my family isn't so reliant on others for our basic day-to-day survival.  I don't generally fall into the trap of "what if" thinking, but the dream I had reminded me that there is much more that I can do to take care of my family.  Even if "the end" never comes, I want the satisfaction of knowing we make/raise our own food, produce our own clean power, and tread more lightly on the earth.  I don't believe that God intended people to live the way we currently do, and we abuse His gifts with our wasteful lifestyles.  I'm looking for my way out, my way back to a more simple, responsible life.



thumb.gif Beautifully said.

post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeatherAtHome View Post

Can you expand a little on the part I bolded? I'm curious. :)
 


 


 

 Me too.....

post #25 of 34

Well, of course to answer, I risk sticking my neck out, so I'll use very tame examples, and leave anyone who is interested to do the research to find out exactly what is actually going on.

 

A start is that Canadians have no unalienable rights. Not one. We have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This is a non-precedent setting charter and can only be enforced through the courts. Every legislated so-called freedom, such as free speech, rests on the charter, and is thereby also not inherent, not innate, not unalienable, and can therefore be denied any Canadian citizen at any time for any reason, which can only be overturned by a judge in the court system. Most of us assume our basic human rights, but this is an American birthright, not Canadian. You cannot claim any rights without court sanction. You can act as though you have them, and this is the best way to live, really, but you are acting as if, and not experiencing freedom, nor are you sovereign, but you'll get to that once you read about the charter in your research.

 

When a fine is issued because a tidy trellis in a well-kept garden is reported because it is 2" over the city bylaw's allowable height, and the delinquent trellis erector is fined along with her warning, that is neighbour policing, and the only real way to consistently enforce bylaws excepting cash cows like parking, for which special reporters are paid to enforce against usually more distant neighbours. Implicit in bylaws of all sorts is interpersonal policing for enforcement, and it's very effective.

 

When anyone must first consider whether his/her intentions in a private home, on private property (and this is a misnomer because no private individual owns something that is registered to the gov't, including land) are permissable, and un-reportable as an infraction before considering whether those intentions acted upon would be beneficial, effective, and/or personally satisfactory, this is acting under the tyranny of democratic policing. Our democracy is not one wherein the people rule (and I would argue that this is an oxymoron since if I can "choose" my governers, then I can govern myself and have no need of them, but I digress; I can work with commonly held connotative definitions), our democracy is one wherein the people police one another.

 

Every Canadian citizen is a mandated reporter of any and every infraction witnessed. It is federally legislated. If you do not act accordingly, then be thankful that someone else hasn't reported you. It's our only saving grace that this is such an enormous land-mass, allowing for enough space that people's real life experience with this reality can be somewhat mitigated by the ability to move if they don't like it where they are.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. It's very apparent that most people cannot see their human vivarium because it has been so cleverly built. Maybe most people don't care.

 

I do.

post #26 of 34
Thread Starter 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C View Post

Every Canadian citizen is a mandated reporter of any and every infraction witnessed. It is federally legislated. If you do not act accordingly, then be thankful that someone else hasn't reported you. It's our only saving grace that this is such an enormous land-mass, allowing for enough space that people's real life experience with this reality can be somewhat mitigated by the ability to move if they don't like it where they are.

 


Wow.  I never realized that Canada had legislation mandating "crime" reporting.  Granted, there are plenty of tattle-talers here who call police (or code enforcement, if their locality has it) for every little thing.  "They play music too loud," or "Their shed is 4 inches too close to the property line," and similar complaints.  Working in law enforcement, things like that drive me mad.  Why can't you go ask your neighbor politely to turn it down?  Why do you care about your neighbor's shed?  Most officers I work with have similar feelings and don't bother so much with the small stuff.  I suppose you could call it selective enforcement, but I view it as good time and resource management... 

 

I also never realized that inalienable rights were so unique to the US.  Even if you don't chose to believe in God, the fact that those rights belong to you and are not a construct of the government...  That would most certainly bother me.  I'm not always happy with our government's actions, but I'm grateful for the protections outlined in the Constitution that keep things from getting too out of hand.  All we need to do is look at the austerity measures happening all across Europe to see that a more socialist approach to government is not the proper road, economically or socially. 

 

I don't blame you for wanting to leave.

post #27 of 34

That sounds like a load of fear mongering. It may be like that on paper, but that's not the way people live in my experience. I'm totally willing to admit that life may be very different for you but I don't think that's the norm. Maybe I'm living in a bubble. Who knows. But I know that daily life here is pretty good (especially compared to things you hear about in the US right now) and I'm not that worried about it. Some people tend to see trouble wherever they look. Others are more relaxed. 

 

One thing that DOES bother me is the Quebec/Canada issue. As an english person living in Quebec, I'm tired of feeling like a second class citizen. Can't we all just get along?! :(

post #28 of 34

Pardon me if my above post seemed harsh, I was just... so surprised to hear something so far off from what I (and most people I know in multiple provinces) feel is the norm. 

post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeatherAtHome View Post

That sounds like a load of fear mongering. It may be like that on paper, but that's not the way people live in my experience. I'm totally willing to admit that life may be very different for you but I don't think that's the norm. Maybe I'm living in a bubble. Who knows. But I know that daily life here is pretty good (especially compared to things you hear about in the US right now) and I'm not that worried about it. Some people tend to see trouble wherever they look. Others are more relaxed. 

 

One thing that DOES bother me is the Quebec/Canada issue. As an english person living in Quebec, I'm tired of feeling like a second class citizen. Can't we all just get along?! :(

Nor in my experience. I've been in Canada for 20 years and my experience is that it's a great place. I don't see a lot/any of what is being discussed here. It's definitely the first time I've heard of "mandatory crime reporting". It may be on paper, but I've never experienced it or heard of it. I'm not going to argue against it, but I can assure you that it's not exactly 1984 up here... LOL

 

The Quebec/Canada thing bugs me too. It's such a shame when if we DID all get along, the culture would only be enriched.

 

 


 

post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeatherAtHome View Post

That sounds like a load of fear mongering. It may be like that on paper, but that's not the way people live in my experience. I'm totally willing to admit that life may be very different for you but I don't think that's the norm. Maybe I'm living in a bubble. Who knows. But I know that daily life here is pretty good (especially compared to things you hear about in the US right now) and I'm not that worried about it. Some people tend to see trouble wherever they look. Others are more relaxed. 

 

One thing that DOES bother me is the Quebec/Canada issue. As an english person living in Quebec, I'm tired of feeling like a second class citizen. Can't we all just get along?! :(


hippie.gif Actually, fear mongering would entail intentionally misleading in order to perpetrate an unreasonable fear. I gave a few real-life examples, all from cities larger than 300,000 people, not a diatribe about how afraid anyone is or ought to be. I am not afraid, and think fear is exactly the least helpful response, so I take issue with your accusation. If you do the research (anything you want to know is clearly expressed in our gov't literature, not on some hyped-up extremist blog selling bugout packs), you will find this information to be correct. You'll also notice that I expressed that the best way to live is to carry on as if your basic human rights are unalienable, because as a human being myself, I refuse to passively hand them over, registered citizen or not, though it is true that they may be denied me at any time.

 

I am not an activist or behaving in any way that brings attention to me, incidentally, not out of fear, so I don't have any daily problems with this, but I do have conscientious objections to it. I do see the way it plays out for others (most unwitting), and I don't like that the cultural trend is toward more and more gov't regulation. The amount of gov't employees vs. the amount of citizens of this country is by itself staggering. This is an enormous obstacle to progress, and I'm interested in sovereignty of the individual, actual private ownership (not registration with the gov't, which means I have title, financial and maintenance responsibility in full, but the gov't has all of the say in what I am permitted to do with it- hardly my "ownership" in any proper sense) among other pro-human ideals.

 

I do not need fear to alert me to the absurdity of the gov't's required "voluntary compliance." As far as this reality not being overtly and clearly defined in the media, and between average citizens, why on earth would the gov't agents whose comfort and revenues come from the rest of us, want to alarm anyone? Of course nobody's being hauled off to jail for not reporting even serious infractions of the legislation; to do so could potentially cause unrest, but the legislation is in place to do whatever is deemed "necessary" by whichever crown-appointed agency of the gov't, at any time, just in case (what case? Don't know. I don't care to spend my time imagining scenarios in which this might happen- like I wrote, I'm not a conspiracy theorist).

 

But we're all comfy cozy up here. So, not 1984, but evidently, most are ample patrons of Huxley's "Feelies."  Respectfully, I wasn't addressing how Canadians "feel" about their experiences living here: I was addressing very directly the way our gov't and culture work in tandem to produce inappropriate personal-boundary crossing and the absolute lack of unalienable human rights. Most people don't know this, so of course, it follows that they will not feel it either.

 

No need to assume that being aware of the facts as they are makes me a zealot or something similar. I live peaceably, do my own thing, don't report anyone to any gov't employee, and rather enjoy where I live, which I chose deliberately to have the semblance of freedom that I experience. But none of that is afforded me by the gov't by any stretch: it's all my own doing and I'll take credit for it myself. I'm just neither afraid of recognizing how it really is, nor afraid of making rational decisions in consideration of the facts. To me, it matters that my freedom is actual, and claimable. If it doesn't to others, that's fine, I guess, though I don't relate.

 

Please, kindly, do not accuse me of what I have not done, and above all, don't be concerned with what I express if it doesn't accord with your subjective experiences and you want to keep it that way: the irony of falsely accusing me of fear-mongering for stating my observations of inter-personal policing between Canadians, is not lost on me here. Perhaps you might see the cultural effect of this "democracy" in your response? I'm sure you just want to defend Canada. I get that. But it isn't necessary, and in this case, it's unwarranted because my facts are correct, and readily available to anyone who is interested in finding out for him/herself. Don't believe anything I've written, but if you care, find out for yourself so you can know, and not be beholden to erroneous beliefs.

 

I was seriously not happy to discover this, and it was quite by accident, but once I started learning about it, it was important to me personally to research further. I have been surprised by how many institutions' documents are right out in the open, but it's true that that's the best place to hide; everybody's looking, but not many are seeing, and/or, they're not asking the right questions.

 

I personally look forward to the end of the world as we know it: we can do soooo much better than this! I am a very optimistic, positive-thinking person. I think human beings have enormous potential, and it would be a heaven on earth were we truly unfettered to accomplish our potentials individually, cooperatively, and benevolently, in actual freedom. I doubt this will come about during my lifetime, but raising children who understand their innate humanity, and that it anticipates (and is thereby programmed for) sovereignty, true freedom, at least improves the likelihood for future generations, though I am personally by far most concerned with the present.

post #31 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by diana_of_the_dunes View Post



 


Wow.  I never realized that Canada had legislation mandating "crime" reporting.  Granted, there are plenty of tattle-talers here who call police (or code enforcement, if their locality has it) for every little thing.  "They play music too loud," or "Their shed is 4 inches too close to the property line," and similar complaints.  Working in law enforcement, things like that drive me mad.  Why can't you go ask your neighbor politely to turn it down?  Why do you care about your neighbor's shed?  Most officers I work with have similar feelings and don't bother so much with the small stuff.  I suppose you could call it selective enforcement, but I view it as good time and resource management... 

 

I also never realized that inalienable rights were so unique to the US.  Even if you don't chose to believe in God, the fact that those rights belong to you and are not a construct of the government...  That would most certainly bother me.  I'm not always happy with our government's actions, but I'm grateful for the protections outlined in the Constitution that keep things from getting too out of hand.  All we need to do is look at the austerity measures happening all across Europe to see that a more socialist approach to government is not the proper road, economically or socially. 

 

I don't blame you for wanting to leave.

 

Thanks. :) I appreciate your considerate response. I am watching with interest, how unalienable rights are upheld/actualised in the myriad major changes that are happening in the U.S.

 

I'm not surprised that Canadians are less concerned with this than Americans, mostly because culturally, Americans know they have the right to overthrow any gov't they deem unfit, even if they wouldn't act on it. Just the knowledge of one's guaranteed freedom is very powerful, and the reality that mine is not unalienable, but only court-enforced, is unnerving to me, even in the absence of overt enforcement by gov't agents. I could live peacefully here all of my life, but I would always know that I am not free, and that has an effect, even on those who are not formally aware of it; it's a built-in feature of Canadian culture that is unsee-able without knowing. 
 

post #32 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by diana_of_the_dunes View Post



 


Wow.  I never realized that Canada had legislation mandating "crime" reporting.  Granted, there are plenty of tattle-talers here who call police (or code enforcement, if their locality has it) for every little thing.  "They play music too loud," or "Their shed is 4 inches too close to the property line," and similar complaints.  Working in law enforcement, things like that drive me mad.  Why can't you go ask your neighbor politely to turn it down?  Why do you care about your neighbor's shed?  Most officers I work with have similar feelings and don't bother so much with the small stuff.  I suppose you could call it selective enforcement, but I view it as good time and resource management... 

 

I also never realized that inalienable rights were so unique to the US.  Even if you don't chose to believe in God, the fact that those rights belong to you and are not a construct of the government...  That would most certainly bother me.  I'm not always happy with our government's actions, but I'm grateful for the protections outlined in the Constitution that keep things from getting too out of hand.  All we need to do is look at the austerity measures happening all across Europe to see that a more socialist approach to government is not the proper road, economically or socially. 

 

I don't blame you for wanting to leave.



Yeah - having lived in the US and Canada I would be far more concerned about government control of rights and freedoms in the US than in Canada especially since the election of Bush and 9/11. Numerous sources rank US as being way down the list on individual rights and freedoms - below Canada in many measurements. I'm sure the PP's interpretation of how our Canadian system of government (court system included) works is grounded in her experience and worldview but I am not so sure that it's an accurate interpretation of our laws, or our constitution (which contains our Charter of Rights and Freedoms and also limits the power of government).  As with all things it pays to do independent research and be aware of biases.

 

This is veering into politics and so is likely not the most efficient place for this discussion.

post #33 of 34

I don't think you are crazy at all OP. Or, if you are, we are too. wink1.gif Just 4 years ago, DH and I were your typical "I want the American Dream" types. We sold our perfectly fine house to build a different house and went all out on the options and the landscaping, etc, etc. Then a year ago we did a Dave Ramsey class in our church and it totally changed our minds about debt and not being "slaves" to lenders. We knew things had to change.

 

Fast-forward to now and we have our beautiful "American Dream" home on the market. We know we'll be taking a loss, but we are pulling money out of retirement to pay for it. As I type this, DH is at a 9-day Emergency Wilderness Responders course with 3 other like-minded friends. My sister and I just finished putting 375lbs of red wheat berries into mylar bags. We purchased guns and ammo and DH just applied for his conceal to carry license. We have BOB (bug out bags) packed and ready to go. Our food storage grows weekly. We plan on renting for a couple of years (God willing) and then either purchasing a plot of land to put a yurt on, or possibly relocating with several other friends to a large compound-type facility. So, yeah, we are right there with you!

 

I think a pp hit the nail on the head when they said that Americans have been slumbering. Our lifestyles are absolutely not sustainable. The debt that this country has accrued cannot continue. The world may not end, but we may experience something like a very, very severe depression. I read not too long ago that up until the 1930s, the majority of Americans were farmers. The same thing can hardly be said today. Most of us are completely dependent on the "grid" and the government to the point where really even a smallish event would bring utter chaos, in my opinion.

 

As for preparing, there's so much you can do and you can build a little at a time. Do what you can and then don't dwell on it! We've:

1. Made up BOB (bug out bags) for each member of the family. A change of clothes, water treatment and contains, food rations, flashlights, knives, compass, basic medical kit, waterproof matches, howler whistles, etc, etc.

2. Started using coupons to compile a 3-month emergency stash. This is fairly easy because the food items don't need to be terribly long-term stable, but they'll come in handy in a short-term emergency.

3. Been slowly building a long-term food stash that will eventually be kept at our fall-back place. You can buy dry goods in bulk from LDS canneries and put them into mylar bags yourself.

4.  Buying water barrels and chemicals/filters to treat water.

5. Building up a community of like-minded people who can help if needed.

 

The way I see it, we have insurance on our home, cars, and our health. We obviously all know things can go bad in those areas and the insurance is there in case it's needed. How is it a bad idea to also have "insurance" on food, water, and necessities? These are the very basic human needs. Don't sit around worrying yourself sick, but do what you can, when you can.

post #34 of 34

I'm not going to get into the political side of this because I don't want to offend anyone by my personal views or get off topic. I'm not going to get into the end of the world theories either. I have my own opinions about all of it and honestly it's personal. I'm going to keep it that way but...

 

I agree with the pp that the "American way of life" is not sustainable as is. This doesn't have to involve political or conspiracy theory leanings either. It's just the way it is and I think we all understand that to some extent things need to change. We're all on the same natural family living board because we feel certain things are better for our family and/or we want to help protect the environment and our families better than 'mainstream' ways do. Without getting 'cooky' or paranoid there are always things that can happen out of our control and temporarily shut down our daily way of life be it a winter storm, hurricane, or even unemployment/job loss taking away our income and ability to support our life. I agree with the idea of we keep insurance on homes, cars, and life but need to have 'insurance' for our basic human needs as well.

 

The best thing I can say here is to think it through. Decide what you are preparing for to assess your needs. Start simple so that you don't get overwhelmed. A good place to start is a bug out bag or emergency kit. Basics are shelter, air, food, and water. You can look at camping/hunting gear for supplies that would make things easier shelter wise (like a solar shower). Add more food storage little by little. Get a way to treat and store water. These are all basic things that can help you if you have an emergency situation. If you want longer term self sufficiency then start finding ways to work towards it. Garden, get animals, can/preserve your own food. Get a grinder for grinding your own grains. Reduce energy use and cut out unnecessary electric items (can opener, use a carpet sweeper instead of vacuum, etc). Just think about it to decide what you feel comfortable with and may need for whatever you're preparing for. Start making a list of things you use or buy and then see if you can come up with a way to reduce the cost or provide it for yourself. HTH.

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