Handling different religious viewpoints in a family when it is causing emotional distress

[MissSJ]

I could really use some insight, advice and personal experience today.  I hope I get responses from people that have been in similar situations from either side, as well as from those who haven't directly experienced this type of relationship but can speak in hypotheticals from their pov.  Please excuse me if this is long and/or rambly. :)

Background:

MIL is very dear to me and I value the relationship we have.  MIL is Christian, she calls herself nondenominational and her beliefs are in a literal, historical, perfect bible; evolution is wrong; pretribulation rapture is very real to her; she believes we are in or are very close to the "end times," she feels she has a daily direct relationship with Christ, she believes Satan actively works in our world, speaking in tongues is very real, everything that occurs is due to God's intervention, all who do not accept Jesus is doomed for eternal torment in hell, and if you do not believe the way she does you are wrong (even if you are a Christian) - BUT if it is evident to her that you "know the Lord" then it is ok (even if you are a different denomination of Christian, a Mormon or Jewish).

DH and I are not Christians.  I would describe DH as possibly agnostic.  I guess I waiver, I like to think there is a God, the Divine, Creator and that we go back to where we came from but honestly I can say idk right now.  I definitely do not believe you have to be of a certain religion, hold certain beliefs or participate in certain practices to avoid eternal torment.  I do not believe in hell.  It does not scare/worry me if there is not an afterlife.  A few years ago I was scared to even say that despite what I thought.  I even contemplated finding a church after we had ds1 because that is "what you do when you have kids."  DH is the one who empowered me in feeling it is OK to not declare yourself a Christian.  We have decided not to raise our children in a religion but to ensure they are knowledgeable about the worlds religious beliefs/myths and to be tolerant of others' beliefs.  To be freethinkers.

We do not broadcast this to the ILs.  We know this would hurt her.  DH's older brother is an atheist and I have seen how much this hurts her.

Last night:

Last night was crazy.  We were at the ILs and MIL asked me to come upstairs with her.  While upstairs she began to get upset explaining that she feels her life has no meaning, her boys do not respect her (never did), that she failed her boys as a mother.  I try to be reassuring and am feeling very sad for her realizing these emotions are very real to her.  Ultimately she began to talk about religion mentioning that she wants her legacy to her family to be that she has ensured everyone knows and accepts "the Lord."  Without that her life has no meaning.  She doesn't want to be in heaven without her family and she doesn't know if DH and his younger brother will be there with her. 

She talked a lot about her personal relationship with the Lord, how often she prays and how it makes her feel.  She mentioned how she tried her best to raise her boys knowing the Lord, feels she went a little overboard and that is why none of her boys are active in a church or open with spirituality.  She feels that her husband did not support her in matters of religion when her boys were children and feels like they all thought she was some crazy religious lady. 

She mentioned she is upset her grandsons (my boys) do not know how to pray (I am assuming because they do not fold their hand and bow their heads when she prays during holidays before dinner, but they do sit quietly).  She thinks they need to go to Sunday School and have a personal relationship with the Lord.  She asked if they even know who Jesus is and I replied that they have heard of Jesus and knew the Christmas story.  At one time she agreed with me that the death/resurrection story was not appropriate for their age then a few moments later she brought it up again and vehemently disagreed and felt they should know. 

She also talked a lot about the rapture.  At one point she was standing in front of me, her voice was raised and she was telling me that DH and his younger brother needs to have a backbone and be the heads of their families.  Mimicking what she felt they should do she was pointing her finger in my face talking about how they need to tell their families that they need to choose Christ - that it is heaven (pointing to the left) or hell (pointing to the right), heaven or hell, heaven or hell.  At one point she said that my influence on DH has led him away from Christ.  ?

This all lasted almost 2 hours.  During this time she was crying, she became very animated with large gestures, she raised her voice.  She continuously repeated herself.  She also was drinking before and during, as she normally isn't that extreme I do think without the alcohol she wouldn't have been that way.  I was very uncomfortable.  I do not like conflict.  I still have issues from the way I was raised that I have a hard time standing up for myself with people I perceive to be in authority.  I care about my mil and understand how she feels about the topic of religion.  I don't want to hurt her so I always just avoid the issue when these things come up.  My stomach was upset, my legs were trembling (gosh it almost seems silly to me, I am a grown woman!).

Finally she asked me - If the rapture were tomorrow, would you be raptured?

I gave the only answer I felt I could give - I don't believe in the rapture. 

That infuriated her.  I mentioned not all Christians believe in the rapture as she does, not all Christians believe Revelations is literal and that believing in the rapture is not an essential point of Christianity.  At that point her husband came upstairs and asked us to come down so I could eat my dinner and we could leave.  This was not because he had any idea of what we were doing, it was because it was 9pm and we had a 90 minute drive home.

This is so long.  I truly appreciate anyone reading this in its entirety and taking the time to respond.  I worry that MIL is going to take it upon herself to teach the boys about Jesus.  In the past this has not worried me because I feel we don't have to shelter the boys from religion, I recognize it is important to MIL, that it brings her joy and that we would be teaching the boys what we believe and why as they grow up.  Now I am worried that they will tell MIL that "not everyone believes that" or that MIL will start talking heaven/hell to them.

I just don't really know how to handle this anymore.  Like I said I care so much about MIL I don't want to hurt her and it would destroy her if she found out that two of her sons were definitely not Christians and her grandsons weren't going to be raised that way.  For those of you in similar situations how do you handle these situations.  Any Christians in a similar situation, I would love to hear your viewpoint.  I would also love to hear viewpoints of Christians of the different traditions as well as those who practice other religions - how would a similar situation impact you, how would you handle it?

Thanks again for all who listened, this is really bothering me today.

SJ

[applecider]

I went through this somewhat with my own mother and it did hurt her, but she needed to know the truth.  And frankly, she is better for it as I think she started opening up her own mind after that.  But she wasn't nearly as extreme as your MIL.  Personally, I feel you did exactly what I would do, told her the truth.  It may hurt her, but everyone has a right to believe what they want.  If the topic comes up again and she is pushy, I would just be honest.

[Linda on the move]

Do you think it's just that she's religious, or do you think that she's unhinged? Because I don't think my advice would be the same.

If she's just religious:

At some point, for your own peace of mind, telling her the truth and letting her put on big girl panties and dealing with it may be your salvation. (bad pun, I know).

I think you need to talk to your husband, and that either just he or the two of you together need to have a little chat with his mom and set some serious boundaries. This is her problem, not yours, but it is effecting your peace of mind, which really needs to be more important to your husband than not ruffling mommies feathers.

"she began to get upset explaining that she feels her life has no meaning," This really is her problem, and it isn't your job to fix it.

My experience with my own family was that it really deeply bothered them for a long time (after all, they believe that dh and I are going to hell, and that our children are headed the same way) But eventually they kinda got over it. It just isn't open for discussion. If they want to be around us and our kids, they gotta do it on our terms -- which means no trying to convert us or the kids. I'm not sure how old your kids are, but getting clear with her about what is acceptable behavior will better for when you kids really know what is going on. Right now, would you leave a child alone with her? It's not just that she's going to teach them religion, but she's going to pressure them into saying they believe certain things so she can feel better. It's emotionally abusive, and could really screw with your kids peace of mind.

If she's unhinged:

Don't take her views seriously, still set boundaries. Spend as little time as possible around her and NEVER leave you kids with her.

[Vaske]

(I found this thread through your other one.)  Speaking as a Christian with many beliefs in common with your MIL, I find it odd that she rejects most Christians, yet approves of some Mormons and Jews.

My parents aren't Christians, but they let my grandma take me to Sunday School and church and read me lots of Bible stories.  I'm grateful now for her efforts to help me find my own personal relationship with Jesus, and that my parents allowed it.  But my grandma knew better than to preach at anyone, so it's not the same as your situation.

You do need to set some boundaries with your mother-in-law, at the very least that you will no longer discuss religion with her when she is drunk.  Your emotional distress is a symptom of trampled boundaries that need to be asserted.  Have you read the Boundaries book by Cloud and Townsend?  The book is excellent, and goes into this far more than I can in a brief reply.  They are Christian authors, but I do not think you would find them offensive, and they will help you frame the boundary-setting in Christian language that your MIL can relate to. 

[journeymom]

This isn't about religion, it's about boundaries and appropriate behavior.  If your MIL weren't a religious person she would be pushy with her DIL about something else.  Believe in your own authority.  You're a grown woman and a mother. It's good that you care so much about her, but you're already sensing the difference between caring about her feelings and not having the nerve to insist she behave herself. 

You are her equal. You can be kind and respectful and still shut down that conversation when you see she's getting wound up.   She might be startled and object. She might cry or get angry. But that says more about her than about you. 

[EFmom]

I agree, this is about boundaries.  I'm big on boundaries.  I understand that you love and respect your MIL.  She loves you, but she doesn't respect you. 

I didn't have this exact situation, but my parents were extremely Catholic, raised us Catholic and are very "one true church" types.  My mom's dead, but my dad remarried another very Catholic woman.  We are atheists.  Dh attends a UU church, but I can't even go that far.

I have had to have a few very blunt conversations with my father and step mother about keeping their religious stuff to themselves.  It is not their position to foist it on me or my kids.  They had their opportunity to stuff it down my throat, but that time has passed.  I caught my father trying to baptize my oldest when she was a baby, and  hit the roof with him.  On occasion, he or my step mother will start talking as if everyone believes the same thing they do, and I correct them immediately, firmly, and in front of the kids so that the kids have no confusion about where we stand.

[wombatclay]

I'm so sorry you found yourself in such a difficult situation.  I agree that boundaries and respect and the keys to the solution... my own mother is very firm in her beliefs and while it pains me (a lot!) that my own beliefs are offensive to her, they are /my/ beliefs.  It has taken me years to build the boundaries that protect my family, and unfortunately there are many instances where I have had to ask my mother to leave my home immediately and/or gotten up and taken my children out of her home.  I think that talking with your DH, his brothers, and her husband about your concerns is a great place to start.  If she attends a specific non-denom community then perhaps speaking with her minister may help... if nothing else it may give you some common vocabulary, a better understanding of her peer group (my mom generally crosses boundaries after attending a social gathering... the other 'grannies' talk about their grandchildren being raised in the faith and my mom feels left out), and possibly an offer by the minister to talk with your MIL.

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[Aquitane]

You and DH are the parents of your boys.  It is YOUR job to do the parenting.  And though, you might like input about some things from time to time, it seems that you have decided on a certain path with regards to religion.  If either of your boys grows up and decides to become a member of a specific organized religion, then that would be that.  Right?  Because although we can parent our kids for awhile, we can't tell them what to do forever.  (And I don't know if we can every truly tell them what to think.)  It seems that MIL is trying to still tell DH (and you) what to do. 

You probably have a couple of choices in dealing with MIL:

Perhaps you and your DH need to sit down and truthfully discuss your beliefs.  Tell MIL you love her and you respect her right to believe what she does, but that you don't want it discussed in front of your children.  Just put it all out there.

or

Try to avoid all discussion of religion and bite your tongue A LOT.  We do this in my family.  ; )  I can't say it's healthy, but it avoids confrontation, which I hate.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help, I understand where you are coming from!

[mamabutterfly]

Hmm... this sounds really hard, for you and for her (for different reasons). I am a practicing Catholic but have pretty different views from your MIL, however in college in the South I was close with many people whose beliefs were similar.

The hard thing is that, from her perspective, "butting out" of other people's business isn't an easy option because she truly believes her beloved sons/grandkids are risking their souls and will spend eternity in hell. It isn't the same as inlaws having difference perspectives on diet or birth choices.

I would try to come at it at least once from a perspective of love and appreciation for what she wants to do. I might write her a letter from you & DH or something. Saying that you know how much she loves her family and how you appreciate her concern and devotion, etc. And that for your family matters of faith are a private, personal matter, and that you would be grateful if she would respect this. You could even thank her for caring enough to pray for all of you, but perhaps you also gently invite her to [excuse the language here if you don't like it too much] leave the outcome up to God. This is kind of where we would come out as Catholics.  You might pray for somebody, but wouldn't expect to be personally responsible for what becomes of those prayers - that is up to God and the person, and you never know (maybe even shouldn't know) what the contents of someone else's heart might be.

In other words, to me it doesn't seem too loving to, for the sake of "honesty at all costs", make plain to this woman that you & DH will never ever believe in Jesus and she should get over it and leave you alone. (Not that you would ever say that, lol!) I would take a tact of emphasizing that your spiritual journeys feel like a private thing to you & DH, and that you appreciate how she loves each of you. Then each time she brings it up, have a gentle line ready like the advice columnists use. Like, "I remember when we talked about this before. It's something that I think about often too. I know you understand I/we prefer not to have religious discussions. Thanks for understanding, and for caring so much about us."

Finally, since you care about her, I'd also try to emphasize what you feel DH & BIL have learned from her positive example (hopefully she has some good qualities you can mention?) and name some ways you hope you are raising your kids to be as [Fill in the blank 'thoughtful' 'generous' 'hospitable' whatever] as she is. 

Good luck, OP.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by mamabutterfly 

In other words, to me it doesn't seem too loving to, for the sake of "honesty at all costs", make plain to this woman that you & DH will never ever believe in Jesus and she should get over it and leave you alone. (Not that you would ever say that, lol!) I would take a tact of emphasizing that your spiritual journeys feel like a private thing to you & DH, and that you appreciate how she loves each of you. Then each time she brings it up, have a gentle line ready like the advice columnists use. Like, "I remember when we talked about this before. It's something that I think about often too. I know you understand I/we prefer not to have religious discussions. Thanks for understanding, and for caring so much about us."

Yes, be blunt with her. Also, hint that you are willing to cut contact with her if she tries to overly influence the children.

My own mother kept taking my kids to church when I had plainly asked her not to. She was only "showing them off " to her friends but both kids were uncomfortable. She lost her solo visit privileges for a long time after that.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by philomom 
Yes, be blunt with her. Also, hint that you are willing to cut contact with her if she tries to overly influence the children.

My own mother kept taking my kids to church when I had plainly asked her not to. She was only "showing them off " to her friends but both kids were uncomfortable. She lost her solo visit privileges for a long time after that.

yes. I had to tell my mother she couldn't give any more religious books to my kids, and that if she continued to give them religious books, the rule would be no more books. (some of the books looked like they were about others. My mom was sneaky about it)

We thought it would be OK. We thought a few Christian books would offer a balance. We don't believe in censorship. But it was totally over the top. She was trying to convert my kids by constantly giving them Christian books.
 

[GuavaGirl]

I'm curious if you have any updates.  I'm in a similar situation and it's been on my mind a lot lately.

My husband and his 2 brother were raised Christian.  The oldest has told everyone that he is an atheist.  It's a big deal to my IL's because it comes up in conversation EVERY time we're with them. They believe my husband is just the perfect God fearing Christian son (they often make comments like "thank god for you" "at least we have you"  "at least one of our boys turned out right and is following the lord")  ....when he is actually an atheist now too.  He hasn't told his parents because he knows it will crush them...and it will come up every single time we see them.  Our son is only 15 months old, but already they've bought him quite a few christian books and they make sure that they talk about Jesus with him in some way (a song, reading the bible, telling him that Jesus loves him, etc.)  every time we see them.  I know he doesn't understand now, and we just kind of ignore it....but we're just sort of cringing thinking about what we're going to do when our son gets a little bit older.  Because first dh will have to tell his parents that he's not what they think he is and that will be huge.  He likes have a peaceful relationship with his parents, but we know they won't be able to see past it.  Then we'll have to tell him to not preach to our son.  ....but if we're not around, I don't trust them in general, so we never have them babysit. (but we say it's because they have stairs at their house and we wouldn't want them to trip and drop the baby).  ..but when our son is older..and can walk down stairs just fine, we know that they'll be trying to save his soul every chance they get.  It just sucks because I feel like if we're honest with them, we almost can't have a relationship with them.  

Ugh, anyway, I just wanted to share and see if anything has changed for you.

[lilyka]

Wow.  That had to suck.

As for what to do.  Usually my advice is to let your husband deal with his mother but this is going to have to be both of you.  She took you aside because she knew you were her best shot at someone raising the grandkids as Christian.  the right brand of Christian of course.  

I know you do not want to hurt her but you need to stand up for yourself and let her know the preaching has to stop.  if she wants to convert you she should just pray for you and dh.  

I know I would be crushed if my children left the Church.  I wold be crushed if they went protestant.  If they did not have my grandchildren baptized in the church.  I would be devistated and worried.   I would feel as though I had failed at the one important job as a parent.  However, I would still have no right to corner them and harass them as your MIL did.  Badger and threaten and try to manipulate a conversion.  And if i talked to anyone it would be my child and not their husbands!!  My inlaws had the nerve to tell me I was sending my kids to hell once.  On the upside I stood up for myself, no, actually I stood up for my children.  Which made it easier.  They have not said much since.  

[nicolelynn]

I am in a somewhat similar situation Guava Girl and OP,

DH and I were both raised evangelical, conservative, etc. Recently we are both identifying more with Universalism and mysticism. Thankfully, my family is wonderful and has been on a similar journey at the same time, so we have that safety and fellowship. However, DH's parents remain uber conservative. DHs mother is now trying to convert us all again, which is so so strange to me because I have never "walked away from Jesus" I just have a much wider view of the Divine now. At any rate, it started with a letter at Christmas about salvation, then she actually "presented the gospel" to all of us at Easter. I used to be an evangelical missionary!

DHs youngest brother and a brother-in-law are atheist now and outspoken about it, so they just egged her on. I feel for her because she had a horrendous past (won't share her traumas), she obviously had a mystical experience with Jesus that changed her life, but she has lived since then shoving that into an evangelical box. And I relate to PP, because when I believed in hell and freewill I was anguished "for souls". so one can't blame her for caring about her children. What makes it more difficult is she is not intellectual at all, so it is impossible to discuss things with her.

At any rate that situation was diffused pretty quickly, and we left with hugs and thanking them for dinner. I know this issue will continue to grow, though and we'll have to figure out how to really deal with it. We are driving with them out of state next week for DH's oldest brother's wedding, so I am kind of dreading being trapped....

[chfriend]

Does she act like this when she is not drinking? It sounds like an alcoholic morose thing to me....