Anyone have a kid with these sleep habits? Are these sleep habits healthy?

[ellemenope]

If you have a kid who especially did/does any of the bolded parts, please commiserate.

DD slept what I feel is normal for a newborn for a whole 2 weeks.  She was active during the day and always slept through the night in between feedings.  She never confused night and day.  She has never in her 2.5 years gotten up during the night and wanted to stay up.

At 2 weeks exactly,  DD woke up.  It was no longer difficult to keep her awake during the day, and getting her to nap became the bane of my existence.  She never fell asleep during a feed.  She very rarely fell asleep in my arms.  Rarely fell asleep in sling.  We had to lay her down on her tummy and pat her back to sleep up until she was 11 months old.  We followed a nice routine. 3 naps a day, then 2, and by the time she turned one we begrudgingly went down to 1 nap a day.   But, I always felt I was forcing her to nap against her will.

She slept through the night almost 12 hours without a feed before she turned 3 months.

By the time she turned 12 months, I felt it was always a battle to get her to nap early enough that we could get her to bed early enough.  Napping her at 2:00 was unacceptable even though I saw other babes doing it all the time.  She continued to sleep uninterrupted through the night a full 10-12 hours.  We began lying down with her to allow for a natural way to fall asleep at 12 months.  It has always taken about 45 minutes to achieve this.  We never have tried CIO.  For naps, I found putting her in my ergo back carry was the only way to get her to fall asleep in the middle of the day.

She stopped napping in the car at 18 months.  I'd say she has fallen asleep in the car about 20 times in the past year.  We have probably taken 8 all day road trips in this time, and we get in the car at least once a day.

Recently (Just now turned 2.5), she has been napping maybe twice a week.  I would like to nap her everyday still, but I am getting so lazy about it. She still sleeps a solid 12 hours from 8:30-8:30.

She has never fallen asleep while playing toys, eating at the table, or watching a video (rare as that is.)  She will not just allow herself to be picked up and stroked to sleep.  She hates going to sleep.  She will fight it to the last blink.  She can easily get up at 8:00 and stay up until past midnight.  easily.  She did this probably a dozen times in the last 2 months due to parties and other circumstances I wont go into.

ETA:  We have only ever gotten 45 minute naps out of her.

Probably the most annoying thing right now is that I am really trying to wear her out in the mornings to get her to nap more easily.  We go to preschool, swimming, museums, and then I fill her up with food, and I think she has got to fall asleep in the car, but she still wont.  I drive for an hour and she just wont let herself calm down.  I signed her up for all this stuff thinking she might then fall asleep in the car on the way home, but now I think it was much easier keeping her home and napping her in my ergo while I do chores.  Now, I guess I need to just give up, drive straight home, and get her in the ergo, and for some reason that really bums me out. (Probably because this method rarely works now, too, and it kills my back.)

How odd is this?  Is it unhealthy?  Is there nothing I can do?

[StephandOwen]

Well, a 2 year old needs an average of 13 hours of sleep. A 3 year old needs an average of 12 hours of sleep. If your 2 1/2 year old is getting 12 solid hours every night, I'd say she's fine! Some kids just drop a nap before others. My ds stopped napping regularly at age 2.

[Owen'nZoe]

There is just such a range of normal, I think. Based on my experience with my children, I don't buy the 'sleep begets sleep' saying anymore - it just isn't true for my kids, and it doesn't sound like it is for your daughter.

So, I guess I'll give you my experience. DS1 was a horrid sleeper as an infant. I don't think he slept more than 2 hours straight for his first year at least. He would fall asleep while nursing and would fall asleep in the car (but only sometimes), but never fell asleep while playing or eating or doing anything else. He gave up napping completely by age 2 1/2, and it took me over an hour every night to lull him to sleep until he was at least 4. He ended up in our bed half way through the night pretty much every night. He is now almost 7 and for the past 2 years, I'd say he is an absolutely wonderful, typical sleeper for his age. He generally is sound asleep within minutes of 'lights out' time, sleeps through the night, and likes to sleep late in the morning. Woohoo!

My 4 year old was a terrific sleeper as an infant - he was sleeping 5 hours straight a night by week 2, and 7 hours straight shortly after. He also napped for hours a day. That lasted until he was about 9 months old when, for some unknown reason he decided he no longer liked sleeping. He went down to one (admittedly long) nap a day at that time, and nothing I did could entice him to nap more often. He started having trouble falling asleep if I let him nap as long as he wanted to, and still woke up early every morning. Basically, what he really wanted to be able to do was sleep 6-7 hours at night and 4-6 hours during the day - and that just did not work for me.  For at least the past year, I've prevented him from napping at home. When he is not allowed to nap, he will sleep a good 10 or 11 hours at night. If I let him nap, he will stay up until 11 pm (past my bedtime!) and be up at 6 am or earlier. Keeping him up works great for the days he is home, but on daycare days he often naps, and then we get very little sleep at night. He, too, has never fallen asleep just by chance, and rarely sleeps in the carseat.

Anyway, our experience isn't exactly like yours, but there are some similarities.

[Nicole730]

My son sleeps 12 hours a night and stopped napping last summer when he was around 26-27 months old.  He has never fallen asleep laying on the floor, watching tv, etc...  He has always been a sucky napper, but a good night sleeper.  I'd say she just doesn't need a nap anymore.  We now put DS to bed b/w 6-8pm depending on the day and how he's acting.  He's up right around 7am every morning.  He will take a really late afternoon nap if we're in the car, like anytime after 2pm.  I don't like to let him do that anymore because then he'll be up until 9 or 10pm.  He stays up in bed reading and playing quietly though, so it's not too bothersome.

As proof every baby is different, my son did fall asleep nursing as a baby - but still wouldn't stay asleep long.  My daughter has only fallen asleep a handful of times nursing (for naps) and will take 2-3 hours naps still - at 10 months old.   

[gracemamma]

 I dream of having a full nights sleep like that-wow! Just had 5 hours in a row last night for the 2nd time since she was born!

But to answer your questions- DD is younger 18 months, but a very sensitive sleeper, as well. I learned alot from the book Sleepless in America that helped me understand my daughters sleeping patterns and personality  better, but we are still struggling and I'm about to post for help too!

DD has never fallen asleep doing any of those activities you mention. She has fallen asleep in a bed a few times but mostly she still needs the ergo to fall asleep too! Day and night! She does fall asleep in the car sometimes  but only if there is nothing interesting going on and some music and motion can lull her.

To keep her asleep for naps, I have her sleep in the ergo. In her bed she naps an hour, in the ergo 1-3 hours. But i'm right there with you- shoulders and back and other body parts are not so happy with the weight of it for so long each day.

I do find tiring her and moving the naps earlier seems to help sleep work better.

It does sound like she's getting some good, deep uninterupted sleep at night though.

Good luck figuring it all out. Sleep is such a confusing and difficult part of child-rearing. I never imagined it would be as difficult as it is.

[Marissamom]

totally sounds like she's ready to cut out the nap completely. 

[kgianforti]

My youngest dd (26 months) is starting to fight her naps and going to bed at night. And we get about 1 hour to 1.5 hours from her. She sleeps about 10 hours at night. Earlier this week, I had to put her back in her crib 20 times before she finally napped. And I only did that because I didn't want her to "win". I'm not ready for her to stop napping either.

My oldest dd (4.5) stopped napping at 27 months and goes into "quiet time" while the other naps. I get about 45 minutes to myself here. She also sleeps about 9 hours per night. I have a hard time getting her to sleep because she says she can't stop her brain from moving.

So nothing is unusual imo. My girls never fell asleep watching TV, playing with toys or eating either.

[Greenmama2]

Apart from sleeping through the night from so young (my 19 month old doesn't), it sounds completely normal to me. DD 4.5 was almost done with naps by her second birthday and they were long forgotten by 2.5. DS 19 months naps around three days a week.

Neither of them have ever fallen asleep playing, watching movies etc, DD did once fall asleep waiting for dinner at a restaurant but she had been sledding (for only the second time in her life) quite literally all day and we were quite late getting dinner.

[crunchy_mommy]

I don't really think it's odd... and I'm sure it's part of the reason she's so bright & sensitive, in fact, because she is so aware & focused on her surroundings (which might be why she doesn't want to sleep)? I think some kids just don't conform to typical toddler sleep habits. We have some similar issues, but in other ways 23mo DS is completely opposite -- he will ONLY fall asleep nursing, for example, and wakes frequently to nurse, though he has never woken up wanting to play in the middle of the night. He always wants to go back to sleep, although some nights he has a harder time getting there. He goes to bed at 11:30pm or later every night (wakes up around 10am unless we have somewhere to be earlier), and nothing I've tried will get him to sleep earlier. He fights naps (and always has) and will only fall asleep one way: nursing. He has never ever fallen asleep playing or eating and I cannot for the life of me imagine him ever doing that. He used to sometimes nap in the car (though still fought it), but now he almost never does, which is really frustrating. I used to time things so he could nap in the car & arrive home or at our destination all rested, and instead he just won't fall asleep now. I NEED to get him to nap around 1-2pm so he'll go to sleep before midnight, but really he doesn't want to nap until 7pm! I have thought about skipping the nap altogether & seeing if he'd go to bed a littler earlier, but on the days he doesn't nap, he still goes to bed late. He just hates naps and is fighting it more & more these days (which I didn't think was possible, given how much he was fighting naps at 4mos old!) I would say he gets just barely 12 hours of sleep, rarely 13 or so, which I think is on the low end of normal... actually he is almost exactly like me now that I think about it. I have always gone to bed very late (even as a kid) and woken up around around 9 or 10, and I never napped except maybe for part of my first year of life. Anyway, I'm totally rambling, I'm not sure if I'm being all that helpful... 

[mumkimum]

 I always felt I was forcing her to nap against her will.

I felt it was always a battle to get her to nap early enough that we could get her to bed early enough.  

She stopped napping in the car at 18 months. 

She can easily get up at 8:00 and stay up until past midnight.

I can relate to about half the traits for dd1 - except she was a big nursing in the sling sleeper, and would throw down loooong naps.  She was a big sleep fighter, stopped napping early, and was a big night owl (I was up to midnight trying for hours to get her to *finally* fall asleep for her first 2 years regularly).  The good news is she's now 4.5 and almost sleeps like a 'normal person' and not in a way that annoys her mother (possibly more important to all our well-being here).  

At the point (for my dd) where she was as you describe yours - I did the best I could at giving up on her napping and would just discourage it the best I could when it was at a really bad time.  She'd end up doing a handful of long naps a month instead and did, for the most part, self-regulate (though it depends on your schedule and how she does it whether that'll work out for you).  If I knew I couldn't handle her not napping - I'd give up and try to get her in the sling and walk around a lot doing laundry.  

I tried to focus on what wasn't going to make me cranky and act like a bad mama and realize I was not in control of when she slept.  And drank lots of coffee.

Anyway, I hope it gets better for you.

[ellemenope]

Oh, I wish I could quote everyone right now.  Thank you for the responses.  A couple of you have made me feel bad for complaining when I do have a child that sleeps straight through the night with no problems and has done so since she was 3 months.  You have reminded me to focus on the positive.  And, it is so nice to know, that some of these things aren't that unusual.  I also really love hearing that toddlers who were difficult to get to sleep aren't so as older children.  Thank you so much.
 

Originally Posted by mumkimum 

I did the best I could at giving up on her napping and would just discourage it the best I could when it was at a really bad time.  

Not to pick on you.  I loved your post, but this is just a perfect example of things I hear that don't make any sense to me when dealing with DD.

I have never had to discourage a nap.  I don't even know what that would entail.  That means she would fall asleep without me pushing it on her, right?  That has never ever been the case.

We have spent many late evening at my parents' house, and my mom always advises us to stay until after 9 so that DD will fall asleep on the 30 minute drive home.  We did this about 15 times in the last 2 months, and she has never fallen asleep in the car.  We even tried turning up soft music and ignoring her questions.  Finally, I just had to tell my mom that we had to leave at 7:00 in order to get back in time to get her to bed.

People also get excited when I tell them DD skipped her nap and say things like, "Oh, well at least she will go down early tonight." or, "She will go down fast."  No and No.  I have found that a consistent bedtime is the only thing that gets her to sleep in the 45 minute window.  She will not go down any faster, and if I try earlier, it will just take longer.  Her napping at 1:00 for 45 minutes has never made a difference.

Like I said earlier, the thing that really is bugging me right now is that I see all these other moms commenting on how hard their kid will sleep after preschool, or how they will be unconscious minutes into their drive home.  I have been wearing her out in the mornings for two weeks and I have yet to get her to nap in the car, and she only fell asleep in the ergo once.  Today, I had a failed ergo attempt that I let go on about an hour. (We are snowed in.)

I know what I would probably tell myself.  Just give it up.  It is not worth all the stress. 

But, I just want her refreshed for evening activities, and honestly I need that refresher, too.  I would like to drop her off at the Y in the evenings so I can work out, but I always get so frazzled by then, that I never want to go.  Plus, I feel bad dropping off and abandoning a two year old at 4:00 that has not been napped.  I want her to be able to be her best there and ENJOY the experience with other kids.  I don't want her any more stressed out.  So, I keep her home in a calm environment,  I just know my brain is fried by 4:00 and I think hers must be, too.  I even avoid my mom's now for this reason, because there is little girl living over there that drives DD nuts.  I want them to see each other, but I feel the evenings when DD has not had a nap is not a good place to start mending that relationship.

I should also mention here that DH is away (and will be for a while), and I am the sole caretaker for DD.  My family cannot help me.  I am actually helping them out right now with watching DN one day a week.  I get no respite.  None. Even her "preschool" is mommy and me (by choice)  Oy, I am not meaning to sound so negative, but that might be what is going on here.  I really don't want DD to stop napping, and she has done everything in her power to force it on me.  Short of knocking her out, I have no control over this.

But, thanks for assuring me that it is not unhealthy, and that she does not have or will develop some sleep disorder.

[VisionaryMom]

Neither of my kids have slept really hard/often the way that I hear people discuss. DS has needed very little sleep since he was born. He *maybe* slept 10-11 hours total per 24-hour period in the first few months and then he slept about 8 hours a day until now when he would try to survive on 3-4 hours a night if I let him. Neither physical nor mental exertion get him to sleep. He took 20-minute naps for about a year and then stopped.

DD has been a better sleeper in that she doesn't take as long to get down and never has. She slept through the night by a few weeks old, but she's always been up by 6:30 at the latest, no matter what time she goes to sleep. She gave up napping around 18 months.

If the problem is that you need the time, institute a rest period. I did that with DS because he was just into *everything*. He was so busy all the time, and honestly I needed some time to catch my breath. I set a timer and said that he had to stay in his room until it went off. He had to be quiet and not leave his room, but I didn't care what he did. We set up his room following the Montessori at Home book, so I never worried about what he was getting into.  Even now at 4 and 6, we have "rest time" if they get too wound up and are arguing all the time on the weekends. Rest time is a lifesaver with active, inquisitive kids.

[crunchy_mommy]

I know what you mean... the nap seems like more trouble than it's worth, but when it actually works (she actually falls asleep), it is worth it -- if not to her, at least to you. I feel like that. And no, DS does not go to bed earlier if he misses his nap, and he doesn't fall asleep on his own (except the increasingly rare occasions of him passing out on the way home, several hours past his normal nap time), so there's no way I could discourage naps.

Maybe what would work better is an alternative to napping, that would still give you what you need... a quiet time, a solitary activity your DD can do while you get some time to recoup, I don't know. I wouldn't have a clue how to institute it, because DS is JUST barely starting to play for a few minutes on his own, I can't imagine him putting him in a room and asking him to play alone for even 10 minutes. But if your DD is more independent, maybe try something on that idea... and if that doesn't work, I assume that is why many people turn on the TV...

[mumkimum]

Just to clarify here - by saying I'd discourage a nap at a bad time, I mean when I could sense she was about to end up sleeping at, say 630pm, and I knew it would mean she'd sleep for an hour and be up until 1pm - I would do something like give her candy  or something equally stimulating or exciting which I knew would get her beyond that sleepiness for an hour and she'd fall asleep for the night later instead at sometime more reasonable for the both of us.  Not that that would always work or happen. . . I know others would always say 'oh, she'll go to bed early after all this running around' after heading out to do stuff and that was never true for us either (usually it made everything worse and take longer cause she was so wound up after being active. .).  That's not exactly what I mean.  

I think I instituted tea with mommy afternoon time when we'd watch some grownup tv show together and she'd color or sit with me around the time when she'd stopped napping so I'd get something in during the day that I liked and get to sit down for awhile too.

[Courtney-Ostaff]

But, I just want her refreshed for evening activities, and honestly I need that refresher, too.  I would like to drop her off at the Y in the evenings so I can work out, but I always get so frazzled by then, that I never want to go.  Plus, I feel bad dropping off and abandoning a two year old at 4:00 that has not been napped.  I want her to be able to be her best there and ENJOY the experience with other kids.  I don't want her any more stressed out.  So, I keep her home in a calm environment,  I just know my brain is fried by 4:00 and I think hers must be, too.  I even avoid my mom's now for this reason, because there is little girl living over there that drives DD nuts.  I want them to see each other, but I feel the evenings when DD has not had a nap is not a good place to start mending that relationship.

I don't understand why having her refreshed is so important? Maybe she just needs to sleep at the right time?

I certainly understand about not working out in the evenings.  Maybe you could work out earlier?  However, keep in mind that most childcare people understand that at 4pm, any 2 yr old, whether or not they have napped, is going to be completely different than they would be at 9am.  They'll act accordingly.

I totally would say, "Hey, I need a break. Let's rest."  And then even if she doesn't sleep, per se, you can lay down and rest yourself, while she colors or whatever.  

My daughter gave up her naps about that age, and I mourned them. :)  I also instituted afternoon TV, since I was worn out by then. ;)  

Can you hire a babysitter to get some time off?

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by ellemenope 

By the time she turned 12 months, I felt it was always a battle to get her to nap early enough that we could get her to bed early enough.

She stopped napping in the car at 18 months.  

She has never fallen asleep while playing toys, eating at the table, or watching a video (rare as that is.)

 The above describes both of my kids.  DD is 4-1/2 years old and she has fallen asleep in the car maybe 10 times, EVER.    DS would snooze in the car, but was otherwise similar.  They stopped napping at 26 and 28 months becasue while they would be happy to fall asleep at 4pm for an hour, she would then be up until 11pm or midnight, and still wake up by 6am - they had zero ability to push wakeup time forward if they fell asleep later, even if only a 30-min nap in the afternoon.  Just this past 6 months or so (she is 4-1/2 and he will be 7 in 10 days)  they have started "sleeping in" (until 8am sometimes) if we let them stay up until 9 or 9:30pm.  They are actually getting more sleep now than they were a year ago. 

I'd ahve people tell me after an afternoon party or activity, "bet they'll be asleep for a nap before you leave the parking lot!"  or if they planned an evening/night activity, "at least they'll sleep in for you!" , neither of which ever happened.  My standard response to those kinds of comments became, "you'd think that, wouldn't you?"    perhaps not the most gracious response, but it sucked wind to have 2 kids that just didn't get that sleep is your friend. 

They were early risers, and the later they fell asleep, the earlier they would wake up.  If I put them down at 7:30 they would sleep until 6:30 usually....but if they went down after 8, they're be up before 5:30.  And then not nap the next day, even if we took a car ride.  Consequently, I was really, really rigid about bedtime, because I knew how awfully UN-adaptive their sleep was - we did not do anything that had us home later than 6pm so we could wind down and be in bed at 7:30 - just this past year we've been making exceptions and doing evening things, because htey're finally getting the hang of sleeping "later" (most mornings they sleep until 7am).  They are finally becoming more adaptive...although, they were up super late for them for a birthday party where we soent the night at my friend's house, and they were up until almost 10pm, and were awake at....wait for it.....6:18 and 6:22 am.  No nap that following day, an 8pm bedtime and they slept until 8am the next day. Whew.

It's just the way they are. 

[pinky]

I've just skimmed the replies, but I wanted to say that my now 9 y.o. dd NEVER wanted to nap, and gave up her nap for the first time when she was 14 months old.  She started and stopped a couple of times, but was definitely entirely done napping long before she was 3.

And we definitely went through a phase when she was around 2 when she slept around 8-10 hours out of 24.  She'd go to bed late and get up early. 

I think what you describe is just one end of the spectrum of normal.

If it's any consolation, my dd's been sleeping 11-12 hours a night straight through for years.   So she now sleeps more than when she was a toddler.  She still doesn't like to go to sleep, but she doesn't fight us so hard anymore.

hang in there, it will get easier!

[ellemenope]

Well, I really am about to throw in the towel.  For now anyway.

Thursday, we had a failed ergo attmept that went on for an hour.

Friday, we had a huge morning, had a huge lunch out, and then just happened to have to drive about 45 minutes to get to my mom's.  It was about 2:00 by the time we finished lunch.  It was late for her to nap, but I would have still loved for her to fall asleep.  I gave her her blankie, put on some music, turned up the heat.  It was a perfect scenario, and she just looked out the window the whole time.

And, today, I put her in my ergo with her blankie and music and walked around to do my chores, and she would not fall asleep. Again, it was like already 2:00, but I am grasping for straws here.  I spent about an hour before I gave up.  I kept her in my ergo while I made us some herbal tea, and we are now watching some travel channel program I have recorded for just this oppourtunity.

I think we will just have to make this tea time a daily thing.  I still love putting her in the ergo for chores.  She does seem to relax in there, and at least she is out of my hair for an hour.  also, I am more confident that I can do this at any time of the day and not worry that she will fall asleep.  It is just nice to get her off my back for a few minutes.

[lisavark]

My daughter gave up naps at 18 months. I put her in preschool two days a week just so I could get a break at SOME point. 

Also, she has never slept all night--and by "all night" I mean five straight hours. She's slept five or six hours a few times in her life, I think--maybe three or four times? Usually she wakes every two hours, or at least every three hours, all night long. I tried for about a year to nightwean her, and she started waking and staying awake for five to six hours in the middle of the night (like from 10 pm till 3 am, or from midnight till 5), so I gave up on nightweaning. Now at least she goes right back to sleep every time she wakes, as long as I breastfeed her RIGHT AWAY. 

Yeah, I think your kid sounds like a perfect sleeper! :D 

Oh, and we have tea every afternoon too. It's a lifesaver! I make a pot of herbal tea, and DD had her own little teacups (they're actually espresso cups, super cute), and she can pour herself tea too. It's really fun. We also lie down and nurse for about an hour every day at 1:00. (Then we get up and have tea and a snack.) At least I get to lie down...if I'm really tired sometimes I'll have her play on my iphone for a while so I can lie in a comfortable position and rest. 

From 18 months till now, we pretty much couldn't go anywhere or do anything in the afternoons. It was really tough for me because I really like to go out and do stuff in the afternoons, but I just had to give up on that because DD couldn't handle it. We just stayed home and had tea, played quietly, maybe watched a movie. Sometimes we would walk to the playground, but a lot of times she couldn't even handle that.  Now she's almost 3, and she's finally able to "make it" till bedtime without having a breakdown, so we're starting to occasionally go on small, easy outings in the afternoon again. She also sometimes stays up really late even without napping--like when my mom was babysitting last week, she stayed up till 11 pm after getting up at 8:30 and not napping. When she first dropped her nap, she'd fall asleep in five minutes whenever I lay down with her, but now it takes her at least 30 minutes to fall asleep no matter how long she's been up. That's just how her body works, I guess--she needs time to unwind. 

I've sort of given up on it getting easier and just accepted the way it is! LOL! Pretty soon she'll be able to read so I'll just send her to bed with a book and let her stay up as late as she wants! 

[crunchy_mommy]

Yeah it sounds like she is just done with naps. If she can make it through the whole day without napping, every day, and doesn't turn into a terror at some point (i.e. doesn't get overtired before bedtime), then she probably just doesn't need it anymore. I think I'll be joining you in no-nap land pretty soon myself.

Tea time sounds like a nice daily ritual.