Vitamin A: How much is too much for a 3yo?

[WindyCityMom]

My 3yoDD has been having a lot of issues so I've decided that supplements are needed in our life. 

I have decided I want to give her a multi, and fermented cod liver oil. 

Her multi has 2500IU of Vitamin A in the form of Vitamin A Palmitate.  It says that it is 100% of the DV for children 2-4 years. 

The fCLO is the Blue Ice brand.  WAPF recommends that 1/2tsp be given to children 3mos-12yrs.  In 1/2tsp, there is 4650IU of Vitamin A (non-synthetic). WAPF also recommends that children get 5000IU per day of Vitamin A.

What would you suggest from your experience?  Her multi is taken in 3 doses that total up to 2500IU.

I have read that Vitamin A Palmitate is water soluble.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by WindyCityMom 

I have read that Vitamin A Palmitate is water soluble.

Nope.

[sbgrace]

beta carotine form is water soluble and doesn't build up. I *think* palminate is a retionol form? If so it's the type that you want to stay at safe guidelines with. If your supplement is partially beta carotine (the soluble) it will say ____% from beta carotine right under the vitamin A IU on the label. If it doesn't none of it is soluble. Also, you'll want to include the amounts in any fortified foods she's eating--particularly if she's eating any cereals or cereal like products (with vitamins/minerals added) and low fat dairy if she's consuming any of that.

I'm careful with A. I don't completely agree even with the WAPF guidelines (particularly their D/A ratio ideas which don't seem to vibe with what studies show in bone health and vitamin A). So I can't advise you on the amount but don't disregard the multi in your calculations. I stay within the Upper Tolerable with A in my home and your limits are well above those for her age (and at the point where older adults were found to have bone density issues in dosing).

[Otto]

Originally Posted by sbgrace 

beta carotine form is water soluble and doesn't build up.

According to the MSDS, beta-carotene is insoluble in water. And it's going to be cleaved into retinol in the small intestine in any event.

[sbgrace]

Originally Posted by Otto 

Originally Posted by sbgrace 

beta carotine form is water soluble and doesn't build up.

According to the MSDS, beta-carotene is insoluble in water. And it's going to be cleaved into retinol in the small intestine in any event.

You're right--fat soluble. But at any rate it doesn't have an upper limit and isn't dangerous. I don't think the OP needs to consider it (ie vegetable intake particularly) in her calculations of vitamin A intake safety.

Free retinol is not generally found in foods. Retinyl palmitate, a precursor and storage form of retinol, is found in foods from animals. Plants contain carotenoids, some of which are precursors for vitamin A (e.g., alpha-carotene, beta-carotene, and beta-cryptoxanthin). Yellow and orange vegetables contain significant quantities of carotenoids.....The condition caused by vitamin A toxicity is called hypervitaminosis A. It is caused by overconsumption of preformed vitamin A, not carotenoids.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminA/

The Upper Tolerable Limits are for preformed/retinol forms only.

Can you clarify? I get you're correcting water soluble. But the other part? Are you saying that beta carotine also builds up toxicity in the body in your understanding? If so, do you have a link for that because I've never heard of that at all and if it's true I'd like to know. I do know that if ti's stored in the liver in excess it can't be accessed by the body or converted into vitamin A at that point. It can replace the storage of other fat soluble vitamins (retinol A and D particularly) in the body.

OP, that's likely why studies seem to show that even at levels below the Upper Tolerable intake older adults consuming large amounts of A have increased risks of osteroperosis it seems and I also think it's why many people have found that it's very difficult to correct a low vitamin D level when consuming lots or even moderate A. There is a balance there and I think WAPF doesn't recognize that balance at all. I'd think a little honestly before I supplemented at that amount.

Unless Otto shares something I'm entirely unaware of, though, you don't need to consider beta carotene consumption (food or supplement) in calculating her A intake--you're considering retionol for the toxicity. That said, I do think the form in her supplement is the form you do need to consider.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by sbgrace 

Can you clarify? I get you're correcting water soluble. But the other part? Are you saying that beta carotine also builds up toxicity in the body in your understanding?

No, you're right. I was overlooking the regulation of the cleaving enzymes by blood retinol level. Although this is kind of interesting in that it suggests that the dynamics may be different if supplementing both forms.

[WindyCityMom]

Interesting stuff!

I've decided to cut the multivitamin and just have her get her vitamins in food form. On top of the CLO she'll also be getting some Floravital (GF floradix).  Everything else should come via food.. she's by no means a picky eater so... =/