Being a good friend & Dealing with my friend's son

[tammylsmith]

I have posted about this before, but I had some more thoughts that I was hoping to get feedback on. Here's the story

- Made a new friend (a mommy of dd's school friend) Dd is 3 1/2, her little buddy is 4 and they play beautifully.

-My new friend also has an older son, 7  he reminds me a lot of Sid from the movie Toy Story, if you've seen it. He's not a bad kid and is in fact very creative and funny, but he likes to get a reaction out of people, and he can say/do mean things to little kids, including dd when she is playing with her buddy (he is quite sweet and gentle)

Ok, so I am not interested in losing this friend. we have a lot in common and I want to cultivate this relationship, which will mean that dd will be in this boy's presence sometimes. If dd ever, in any way, indicated that she was afraid to be around him or did not want to go and play, I would listen in a heartbeat, but she loves playing with her little friend, and she even likes certain things that the older brother does, like his great lion impersonation (until he chases her and says he's going to eat her)

She talks about older brother a lot, in the context that "C is a bad boy" to which I reply "not bad, just a big kid who sometime does not make good choices in his actions." She is very verbal and I am always checking in to make sure she isn't feeling bullied, but he is much older and bigger, so it is inevitably going to happen at times. He does make poor decisions sometimes, and is a passionate, creative child, so it will come out in a way that is not appropriate, so I go over and place myself between him and her. She knows to come to me if he is throwing sticks, etc. His mom and dad, by the way are gentle, kind parents, they are always right on top of things if he is behaving inappropriately. I know they are doing everything they can, so I don't feel this is a parenting issue per say. I don't want his poor choices to affect my friendship, because it easily could if I let it. I cannot control him (his mother is working on getting him counseling and trying different behavior programs, but she can't control him either. She can only try to direct him, which I know she is doing)

Sooooo, here is my question. I guess I'm asking those of you who have  a passionate kid who sometimes makes the wrong choices. What else can I do to make this situation as workable as possible. I don't want him to pick on dd, who is a tiny little sprite. I want to keep this friend. I want to spend time with our families together, because there is a lot we have in common. IS there anything else I can do? Anything I'm not thinking of, to help dd feel safe and make sure she continues to enjoy her playtime? (She still likes going there and begs me to plan another playdate. If she was feeling picked on, she wouldn't do that, right?

[pianojazzgirl]

Can you give some examples of the problematic things he's saying and doing to the littler kids?

It sounds like you guys (you and the other parents) are pretty on top of it, which is great.  If I was worried that my dc might be getting bullied I'd make sure to have them in my sight at all times.  I'd also role-play with dd about how to deal with the older kid (this depends on what exactly he's saying/doing), to give her some tools to defend herself.

Depending on how bad it is, or if my dd was not enjoying her playtime because of the older sib's behaviour, I'd consider setting up playdates with just the 2 littler ones (at your house) and separate get-togethers with the other mom.

It's hard to know exactly what to suggest though without a bit more detail about what's going on.

[tammylsmith]

For example, he would run past look at her with a mean face and a snarl, fist up just to make her flinch. I once caught him throwing these small sticks in her direction, and once he walked by and tossled her hair in a mean way. He doesn't seem to try and hurt dd as much as get a reaction...  it's lots of little stuff like that. If his mom sees it, she's on it right away. If I see it, I immediately go over to dd. She has no problem with running to get me, and so far still wants to go play. The majority of playdates are during the day, so no problems there. I guess I'll just have to tell dd to stay close by me until he matures a bit more...

[tammylsmith]

So today, dh went to pick up dd from preschool, and he told me that, when she went to say by to her little buddy, his big brother kept trying to position himself like he was about to throw a big snowball at dd. Dh saw this, of course, and held dd and positioned her away from this kid. In any case, I have been digging around, as I'm prone to do, to find solutions. Here is what I came up with.

"The National Institute of Psychology deems a bully “a person engaged in the pattern of deliberately harming and humiliating others.”  They further add that bullies are created by their victims and continue to bully for the simple reason that their tactics normally work.  If your child has been bullied, than they have been chosen very carefully by the bully, normally due to traits like an obvious lack of assertiveness, insecurity, and fear"

OK, well seeing it that way, it is quite obviously in front of me that I am dealing with a bully here. I found plenty of examples of kids who bullied others even though they came from good homes and had gentle parents/siblings. It seems to be often a case of seriously needing direction for energy or a place to feel strong and good about themselves that doesn't involve hurting others. This, however, is not my problem. I am just thinking that my friend is very sensitive about this and probably already knows her son is a bully. I am aware that other moms have stopped calling her for playdates. I know she's doing her best, but I'm going to have to take over the parts I can control if I want to keep her as a friend. So here is my prescription for myself (what do you think?)

1) If at any point, dd expresses that she does not want to go to her little buddie's house because the bb (big bully) will be there, I will make sure she knows that isn't a problem, and we won't go. I will never let her feel uncomfortable. The friendship will definitely not happen if dd is not comfortable. Thus far, this isn't a problem.

2) We will plan play dates for the morning and times when bb won't be there. (I do that already, but I'll just be extra careful to do that)

3) If bb is there, I will keep my dd close at all times, and encourage her to play near me. If dh is there with me, he and I will take turns being the hawk and stand right there near her. I will step in every time 100 times if need be, not to discipline the other child but to make sure mine feels safe..

4) If we ever need to leave because of inappropriate behavior from bb, then we will do so.

5) I will let my friend know in a gentle and nonjudgemental way what is going on. I will not close channels of communication, but I will be honest if there is a problem.

6) I will talk to dd about bullies (started that one already) and we will practice what to say and do if she feels bullied.

It makes me feel better to type all of this out... like I have a plan.

[aprilv]

is it possible this big brother feels jealous that he doesn't have a playmate?  i know my sons get upset if one has a friend around and the other doesn't.  he might feel like he needs to bother the little kids less if he has someone to pal around with, maybe even a slightly older kid who behaves in a more acceptable way- this could be a good model.

i had a friend whose son went through a stage like this too.  he started hoarding toys, hitting, etc (he was younger, 4 at the time).  my son loved this kid but would invariably be upset and hurt when we got together.  i found the mom to be very embarrassed and over critical to small things because she was so concerned it would escalate- so she would jump in and make a big deal about stuff that wasn't a big deal.  even if you guys aren't jumping in too soon, is it possible he can tell you are tense, on edge, waiting for him to mess up?  if so, this kind of thing can become a role- i see they expect me to be bad, so i will be!  (actually, i went through this with ds too for a while come to think of it- it was a real cycle we had to break).

what i did was make shorter play dates and try to avoid the triggers- for us, going to the park or something instead of a house where there was stuff to fight about was good.  i also tried to point out all the good stuff the kid did, but not in an obvious way, basically just 'hey thanks for letting ds try that, i can tell he really likes it...' etc.  maybe you could even talk to the brother one on one and ask him how he feels when you guys are over, tell him you notice he seems mad and ask him what's going on.  he may share something insightful.  you can even validate his need to get a reaction, because for whatever reason it's there.

also- maybe this kid feels powerless for some reason.  naomi aldort has a fantastic section in her book on power games to help kids regain feelings of power.  or maybe you could ask him to organize a game for the younger ones (thought you'd have to be close by). if he felt trusted and 'cool', plus a main part of the fun, he might not need to get negative attention.

you know the situation best, but maybe some of this will help.  good luck and of course your dd always must come first as you said!

[tammylsmith]

I agree aprilv, I think he feels powerless. I think he is a very impulsive kid, an he gets in trouble a lot. This much I know from talking to his mom. I think he gets himself in bad cycles of behavior and punishment (not necessarily from his mom, it can be from his teacher, or exclusion from a group of kids, etc) that he feels powerless and angry about. He will do this especially if there is not a playmate around, but actually the biggest trouble I have with him is after school, when he's been at  his desk all day no doubt, when he comes out. Even though there are other kids to play with, he gets stuck on chase and harass games. Dd only catches any problems from him if he is with his little brother playing, because he inevitably picks on his little brother too. I know his mom recently bought him a super secret sketchbook for him to try and journal his feelings and draw anything he wants (he has been in trouble for drawing violent pictures lately... this from a kid who has no toy guns and doesn't watch TV except for pre-screened dvds. Something is definitely troubling him)

Maybe I should suggest martial arts to my friend. That could help this boy practice some self discipline and give him the physically powerful feeling he is craving. He would also get a role model in the way of a disciplined teacher.

[One_Girl]

He is definitely being annoying, but it sounds like the kind of stuff kids do to their younger siblings so I don't know that I would label it bullying.  It may be bullying, which is probably also the correct term for what siblings do to each other, but he may also feel like she is around often enough to treat the same way he treats his brother.  When you see him doing something I think you should ask him why he is doing that and see what he says then ask him if he would want someone to do that to him or point out how it made the other kids feel.  The way he interacts with her sounds like the way siblings interact not the way a bully interacts with the person he is bullying.  One thing that might help is to ask him what his favorite part of the day was, what shows he has liked watching recently (and details on the show), what plans he has for the weekend, etc... when you first arrive.  Make him feel like a part of the conversation at first so he doesn't see your visits as times when he is alone and the only one not getting attention from someone.  I have noticed that a lot of children start to really open up and change the way they feel about a visitor when that visitor takes time to try to connect with them also.

[Marsupialmom]

IMO, you need to find someone for the 7 year-old to play with.  He sounds like a perfectly normal bored child.  And yes, there does seem to be an older sibling syndrome.  

I would talk to the other mom and say that the 7 year-old seems bored at your home.  What are the best ways to find him entertainment.  Going to the park, letting the 7 year old bring a friend, movie, to entertain himself.  Shorter play dates.  

For after school...put yourself in his 7 yo shoes.  He has been in school 7-8 hour being told to shut up, sitdown, behave.  Now he has to tag along with his little brother to a friends house, to behave...he is bursting at the seems and needs some down town.  A good way is to start the play date, giving 7 yo time with mom alone and to unwind then come over.  

I have found even number children a smoother play date.  When you have odd numbers you have someone left out and trying to gain attention.  

[mandalamama]

have you ever sat down and talked to him yourself? i don't mean about the rough stuff, just about the weather or whatever. one of my daughter's friends' older brother (2 year difference) bullies most of the younger kids where we live, but my daughter really loves his lil' sister. i'm a floor-sitter so the kids tend to group around me, luckily one day he sat down with me to ask my advice on how to make friends. of course i told him to talk to his parents because it's such an important topic, but also we had a nice conversation. turns out he feels left out because the littler kids get not only more attention, but more toys. his parents buy him the typical boy toys such as army men, action figures, guns. etc. but he wants to play at cooking, bubble blowing, the big spiral ribbons, arts and crafts, or even play "family" when the kids of various ages are grouped up. unluckily, his mom is not the kind of mom any of us can talk to about the situation. i just hope he'll feel free to talk to me as he grows up with my child, he seems soothed by any mellow mama being around and he's quite fun, funny and bright!

however, i mainly focus my energy on my daughter's response to all this. i can't and don't want to "fix" other peoples' kids, it's not realistic since she'll need to get along with all sorts of people later on. of course i want to be overprotective, then again i want my babe to get out there and learn to deal with all sorts of kids and situations, so i just look for teaching moments.

she's in martial arts and one "bully buster" they teach is to raise their voice and yell loudly, "(Name), stop (what they feel uncomfortable about)!" for example, "(Name), stop putting your fist in my face!" or "(Name), stop pushing on me!" which draws attention to the bully immediately so the adults can step in right away. (as opposed to her having to run away and leave her play and her friends. it also prevents the inevitable taunts like being called a tattle-tale.) most of the bully-busters they teach are about simply being confident and strong in your own body. i think that sense of body confidence can be taught in a lot of ways. it's hard to describe, some kids just project that "i have every right to be here and do this" kind of vibe, and the rougher kids and bullies seem to avoid them.

[tammylsmith]

Excellent points mamas. I do think he is being more of a big brother type, though his behavior is bullying. I feel like these are some good suggestions to help dd feel like she doesn't have to be afraid,.