Who knows about easements? Help us?

[snuggly]

We are brand new homeowners (3 months in our new place) and just last night some folks knocked on our door wanting an easement to put in a water line along the edge of the our property. I know nothing about easements- Where to start?

Here's the details I know so far: it would be a 4'' pipe, 3' under the ground along the edge of our land (about 90').  It is a doctor's office (plastic surgeon) who needs to put it in to meet fire codes.  They have asked about putting it on our neighboring lot, which is not yet built on, but they said they would have to buy the whole lot.  They said they would pay us around $1000-  Seems very low to me, but I have no idea what is normal/fair for an easement.  They said it would take one week of digging/work, our land would be returned to normal (it's a grassy/weedy area now), and that it would not change anything about our property.  The stretch where it would go is a thin strip of land between our house and our (someday) neighbors.  My hope/goal for this strip is some raised beds, which would still be possible as the pipe would be 3' under.

I am putting this in finances because, sad but true, we are only considering it for the $... As new homeowners and with #2 on the way, some cash will really help.  That said, I don't want risks, complications, legal issues... At any price.  What would you do?  Who should I talk to to figure all this out?  Is it worth considering?  

[Mosaic]

In my understanding (which is limited to a single grad school course!), an easement is not really a huge deal. It's basically a legal agreement that says even though you OWN the land, your plastic surgeon neighbor is allowed to use it for this specific purpose. They are common... many right-of-ways to the beach are easements, the areas around utility poles, etc.

Without knowing any more about it, I see no reason why this might be a problem. I would ask them to see if this is a one-time thing or not., i.e., is it tied to your land and needs to be disclosed to future homeowners, etc. (Even if that's the case, that's not necessarily a disincentive for future home buyers.). I'd also make sure that you will still be allowed to use the bit of land for a flowerbed if that's what you want, because they may not want that in case they ever need to dig it up to service the pipe.

I also don't think there's a "fair" price for an easement... it all depends. If this is going to be a major pain for you, then you can ask for a ridiculous sum of money. If they're going to have heavy machinery driving on/around on your property to do the pipe, make sure their agreement will address all impacted areas or ask for enough money to do it yourself (e.g., it rains before they come out, so their heavy machinery digs giant tracks throughout your front yard, but they put the teeny easement area back good as new).

[Jane91]

I believe the easement would be put on file with the register of deeds, so future purchasers would know about it.

In any event, I think you might want to have legal counsel involved, so I would suggest that the purchase price for the easement be a set amount *plus* your legal fees (whatever they might be).

Additionally, I would suggest that your agreement with them provide and require that they indemnify you against any lawsuit that might arise from their placement of the water pipe -- for example, if they hit another utility line as part of the digging, or if they injure a passerby while doing the excavation.  Also, you should have proof of insurance from the party hired to do the digging.  Legal counsel would have an idea of all the contingencies that you would want to be covered for.

[ChristyMarie]

It shouldn't be a big deal - as long as it doesn't bother you.  Easements are fairly common and it should be a pretty standard contract.

However, I would speak with a real estate attorney familiar with commercial easments and make sure the contract is drafted to fully protect you should anything go wrong with the pipe either during installation or in the future.  For example, if you have raised beds there and they need to do work on it in the future which requires them to be dug up, who is responsible for repairing them back to their original condition?  My husband deals with easments all the time and there's always negotiating to be done so that both parties have an agreed upon contract which outlines their rights and responsibilities.

FTR, $1000 would not be worth the hassle of having my property dug up and knowing that it might need to be dug up again in the future for maintenance or repairs.

[A&A]

We received $8000 for an easement.  (But it's a 10 ft.-wide easement.)  And we ran it by a real estate lawyer before signing it. 

[lmonter]

Originally Posted by ChristyMarie 
However, I would speak with a real estate attorney familiar with commercial easments and make sure the contract is drafted to fully protect you should anything go wrong with the pipe either during installation or in the future.  For example, if you have raised beds there and they need to do work on it in the future which requires them to be dug up, who is responsible for repairing them back to their original condition?  My husband deals with easments all the time and there's always negotiating to be done so that both parties have an agreed upon contract which outlines their rights and responsibilities.

FTR, $1000 would not be worth the hassle of having my property dug up and knowing that it might need to be dug up again in the future for maintenance or repairs.

This.  Our yard was dug up for water pipes before we moved in - tore up the whole front yard.  I'd be beyond irritated if I had to dig up my well-established raspberry patch or asparagus bed or something - those suckers take years.  There's a reason I have nothing planted in my front yard now, nor on top of my septic tank and drainfield.  ;)
 

[Caneel]

I agree with the others that say not a huge deal as long as it is located at the edge of your property.  Easements are very common in my part of the country (NE) as utility lines need to cross private property one place or other. 

I would absolutely contact an experienced attorney to make sure you get a fair value.  

The line will be (should be) tested prior to filling in the trench so leaks that would require digging it back up shouldn't really be a problem.

[snuggly]

Thank you for your ideas everyone!  For some reason I am not having a good feeling about this... I walked the route it would take and it would severely impact the root system of the largest (not huge, but still) trees on our lot... Also, they are being quite pushy- Calling at 8 in the morning, coming by at dinner time, telling me we can trade plastic surgery for the cost (thanks a lot ).  At this point I think I will say no thank you, we are not interested at the price that they are offering and see what happens.  When I figure out the value of that stretch of lot (appraisal minus structure value divided by area segment) it comes to about $5000.  We may reconsider at a higher amount if they don't have other options around us.  I'll keep you posted and thank you again for your ideas!

[mattemma04]

I would decline it. Any easement is a negative.If there is any issue with the pipes it is YOUR property they tear up.Generally easements also mean you can not build or put in anything so many feet on either side. I can't put a fence in a perfect location on a property due to easements.

I say if you can avoid an easement then by all means do so. Let them run it at the other property. People find a way.There was a neighbor suing one over sewage from a septic going in their yard.Septic people asked for an easement to run a pipe to attach to public sewer,but the pooped on neighbor declined.The septic people ran it elsewhere.No big deal.

And 1k is a pretty small amount for taking away the rights to a portion of your land forever.Unlikely there will ever be issues once the pipe is in,but why do it if you don't have too?

The neighbor is a plastic surgeon.Can't imagine not having money to buy the other lot,put in the pipe,and then just sell it.I would expect them to offer more $$$$$ for the loss,not that any amount would get ME to agree to an easement.In the least say no and see if they offer more;if more money is what you would want.

Best wishes whatever you decide to do!

[GirlBoyGirl]

I would hold out for more mula!! They are a plastic surgeon, they can afford it! And yes it is a hassle to you so they better pay up!

[HollyBearsMom]

I am always surprised about salary assumptions.   So just because he is a plastic surgeon he is loaded/rich??  Would any one suggest that the OP take *less* if the neighbors were blue collar workers or laborers? This should be about what is right for the OP and her property, not judging the cost based on assumed salary levels.

OP- If you do decide to for forward you should still consult a reputable real estate attorney. They can walk you thru the risk/benefits as well as give you a realistic range for compensation.  

[mattemma04]

Any doctor I have been to charges $75-200 per office visit which sometimes lasts minutes. I guess I do assume a plastic surgeon will make good money from hearing about the cost of various procedures.Dh's dad was a general surgeon and his services were not cheap. 

Even if this was an retired person on SS or a single mom I would still request a very high amount for the loss of my property. I will still be paying for that property,but I will no longer be able to use it.

[plantnerd]

In my area anything within the municipality already has an easement by the utilities (water and gas, some sewer).  The city can roll in at any time and dig up my yard for a sidewalk, for example.  I agree it's no biggie, but if they're offering you money get a lawyer and see what you can negotiate.

[ChristyMarie]

One other thing you might not have thought of - if you give an easement now, that will most likely transfer to future owners.  So you may give an easement now to a doctor's office you don't expect to have a high impact on the property but you do not know what other businesses will occupy that space in the future - and what modifications might be required for the water line.  A larger building in the future might require a new/bigger water line.

Also, they are telling you they have to buy the other lot probably because that owner has refused an easement but offered to sell them the property if they need to use that land.  They (most likely) either don't have the funds to do this or simply don't want to spend that much if they can get it done in a cheaper manner on an adjoining property.
 

Originally Posted by snuggly 

Thank you for your ideas everyone!  For some reason I am not having a good feeling about this... I walked the route it would take and it would severely impact the root system of the largest (not huge, but still) trees on our lot... Also, they are being quite pushy- Calling at 8 in the morning, coming by at dinner time, telling me we can trade plastic surgery for the cost (thanks a lot ).  At this point I think I will say no thank you, we are not interested at the price that they are offering and see what happens.  When I figure out the value of that stretch of lot (appraisal minus structure value divided by area segment) it comes to about $5000.  We may reconsider at a higher amount if they don't have other options around us.  I'll keep you posted and thank you again for your ideas!

Trust your instincts.  Those types of pressure tactics are odd.  The real estate developers I know are barely up at 8, yet alone calling to pressure homeowners into signing contracts.  (totally stereotyping here but really, most people do business during business hours) I would want to be dealing with people who are acting in a professional manner and who have everyone's best interests in mind.  High pressure tactics would make me really wonder what is going on.  And trading plastic surgery????  WTF?  How does one even begin to write that contract?  Is the doctor acting as his own developer?  Is he about to lose the property back to the bank and is acting out in desperation?  Some red flags come to mind - something doesn't seem right.

Originally Posted by mattemma04 

I would decline it. Any easement is a negative.If there is any issue with the pipes it is YOUR property they tear up.Generally easements also mean you can not build or put in anything so many feet on either side. I can't put a fence in a perfect location on a property due to easements.

...

Oh, I didn't even think about the fence issue.  But yes, chances are there would be building restrictions in place.  So fences, patios, decks, etc could be limited or restricted depending on the terms of the contract.  We have a 30' easement at the back of our property and we have to get permission to even put anything near it and absolutely cannot build anything on it.  I imagine raised beds might be considered building on it.

[ChristyMarie]

Originally Posted by plantnerd 

In my area anything within the municipality already has an easement by the utilities (water and gas, some sewer).  The city can roll in at any time and dig up my yard for a sidewalk, for example.  I agree it's no biggie, but if they're offering you money get a lawyer and see what you can negotiate.

That is for municipal/public use though. 

Chances are the owners are having the property rezoned and must bring it up to code for the new zoning.  Any necessary changes are up the the owner/developer to pay for - not for the city or public funds.  Even if rezoning isn't needed, each development must go through an approval process.  The city can require them to conform the property/utilities/access however they want and it is up to the developer/owner/tenant of the property to comply.  They can require them to pay for utility upgrades as well as road improvements or to fix environmental issues.

[weliveintheforest]

Originally Posted by HollyBearsMom 

I am always surprised about salary assumptions.   So just because he is a plastic surgeon he is loaded/rich??  Would any one suggest that the OP take *less* if the neighbors were blue collar workers or laborers? This should be about what is right for the OP and her property, not judging the cost based on assumed salary levels.

The neighbour wanting the easement is a doctors office, a commercial building, not just a home owned by a someone who happens to be a doctor.  This would make me assume they can afford to pay a fair price.  They probably just hoped the OP would allow it to go through for cheap to save them the money and hassle of doing it another way.
 

[HollyBearsMom]

Originally Posted by weliveintheforest 

The neighbour wanting the easement is a doctors office, a commercial building, not just a home owned by a someone who happens to be a doctor.  This would make me assume they can afford to pay a fair price.  They probably just hoped the OP would allow it to go through for cheap to save them the money and hassle of doing it another way.
 

I agree the OP should get a fair price, which is why I recommended they seek out a real estate attorney who can give them advice on realistic compensation. To assume the price offered was too low based solely on the profession is naive. Regardless of who is seeking the easement it is judicious to do your due diligence and not make assumptions. 
 

[SleeplessMommy]

Find out the cost of the lot next door. If that lot would cost them $100,000 (sure they can eventually re-sell, but real estate commissions can be 10% for lots, and reselling can take some time.) then $25,000 for the easement might be a good deal for them.

Ask a few real estate agents for opinion on the loss of home value from the easement. And of course talk to a real estate lawyer.

If the doctor calls you again, demand a written offer and no more phone calls. Don't take the face lift :-)

[crazyms]

Easements can be a pain. Yes you still 'own' the property but whatever section is used for the easement is pretty much considered a loss because usually you can't do anything with it again. I once lost $5000 from a timber investment because of an easement. I would definitely not allow the easement for $1000 especially not for a commercial operation. I'd check on things in your area a little better but I would want to find out what the utility company's requirements are for the easement. I know they told you what size the pipe was but I would contact the water company putting in the line and find out more details. I would think the water company would be the one putting in the actual pipe and they may have requirements of their own for the pipe and easement. I know when we had a lot put on our property with a second utility pole the light company had requirements for an easement allowing the work before they would do it. I would try to find out more about it and definitely require more money if I agreed although I'd lean more towards not doing it at all.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by weliveintheforest 

Originally Posted by HollyBearsMom 

I am always surprised about salary assumptions.   So just because he is a plastic surgeon he is loaded/rich??  Would any one suggest that the OP take *less* if the neighbors were blue collar workers or laborers? This should be about what is right for the OP and her property, not judging the cost based on assumed salary levels.

The neighbour wanting the easement is a doctors office, a commercial building, not just a home owned by a someone who happens to be a doctor.  This would make me assume they can afford to pay a fair price.  They probably just hoped the OP would allow it to go through for cheap to save them the money and hassle of doing it another way.
 

That's a bad assumption, though. Doctors' offices rarely are rolling in money. Many of them barely survive. The reasons are readily out there if you're interested, but they're not germane to this subject. I think HBM's point, though, was that the OP should research and ask for what's right for her and not base the amount she's seeking on the fact that it's a plastic surgeon's office.