I think my 16 year old may have pertussis

[Ruthla]

She's been coughing for over a week, maybe two- no fever, but lots of coughing, a bit of a sore throat (from the coughing- no pain while swallowing). Once she coughed so much that she vomited a little. She's been tired and has had a slightly lower appetite than normal (but she just finished up midterms at school and hasn't been sleeping well- how to tell when fatigue is worse than "normal"?)

This evening, she had some big coughing fits, where she had trouble catching her breath while coughing. It suddenly occurred to me that she may have pertussis.

A few questions:

1) How do I keep the rest of us from getting sick?

2) Is there any point in taking her to the pediatrician? I don't want to expose babies to what she has, nor do I want her exposed to any new germs while her immunity is down, nor do I want to schlepp her out in the cold if it can be avoided. But if there's something the doctor can do that will actually help her, I'll take her in.

3) Speaking of schlepping her out, she wants to go to the mall on Sunday. Is this a bad idea? Should I keep her and her germs inside for a while to protect others?

4) How long should it take her to get better now that I've finally convinced her to take raw garlic,avoid sugar, take extra vitamins C and D, ginger tea, etc? Is there anything else I should make her do that I haven't thought of?

[craft_media_hero]

Well, I'm no expert, but I would say to quarantine the whole fam and do natural treatments together as prophylactic for the rest of you and to help her get over it.

I don't know what a doc could do---do they give abx for pertussis? They could probably test to confirm your suspicions, though.

I think you're on the right track with the raw garlic and such. I would do the Vit C to the bowel tolerance method--I've read here on mdc that it's effective against the WC. Also, maybe you could run out to the hfs and get some elderberry syrup or lozenges? Astragalus, echinacea, I'm sure some mamas will chime in with a whole host of ideas for natty treatments.

Yeah . . . I think if it's the real deal then you def. don't want to send her out in public as she would probably be spreading the germs.

Good luck and good health to you!

[tanyalynn]

1--I'd start everybody on the household on bowel tolerance SA... you've been exposed for a long time, but you can probably lessen the severity a lot. 

2--I'd absolutely skip it, I don't think they can help make her feel better, and this late into it, it's dicey whether the nasal swab test, which I think is the most common test, would detect it (I looked it up when I was trying to figure out what to do last year and to me, as far as I could tell, you'd need separated blood draws looking for rising antibody levels to be sure that's what's going on)

3--I'd keep her home.  Although her friends may well have been exposed via the same route she was, if they haven't already gotten it, they don't want it, and to protect the other folks at the mall, though I'm not sure how easily it spreads via casual contact, and if the person is washing hands/using sanitizer diligently that seems like it would reduce the transmission somewhat.  But it still seems responsible to delay the mall trip a couple weeks.

4--when my kids had their pertussis-like coughing illness (I didn't do any testing), the SA helped DD's coughing fits within a day, two at most?  My kids also ran low on zinc, that may be something to consider supplementing.  It was a while into the cough before they showed their low zinc symptoms, it wasn't immediate, but I wish I'd considered it earlier and started giving them extra early. 

[Ruthla]

Is there anything I can do for her at bedtime, when she's exhausted and wants to sleep  but can't fall asleep, or dozes off and then wakes up coughing?

I tried giving her OTC cold medicine (just at night) but it didn't help.

[tanyalynn]

I don't know of anything to help with coughs at bedtime.  :(  Hopefully, if you get up to bowel tolerance of SA today, it'll help a bit.  Another thing that may help, but I didn't know about it (and thus didn't try it) back then was a lifting technique my DO showed me.  It's helped with other coughs, it encourages productive coughing for a few hours, and then our cough noticeably started to drop off (again, not WC, just a regular, albeit stubborn, coughing illness).  But it's something you do by mid-afternoon so that you get the extra coughing out of the way before bedtime.

You stand behind the person, hold onto the side of their ribcage at the level of the bottom rib, and lift them up a bit (gentle, doesn't need to be fast or rough or anything) and set them down.  Their body weight pulls down and stretches out their chest cavity.  Move your hands up one rib, lift again, and keep doing that til you get to their armpits and can't go higher.  I don't know if your 16yo is too big for you to try this, though, but if you can, it may help. 

Hope she feels better soon.

[Panserbjorne]

you can try homeopathic drosera.  It's by no means the only remedy that would fit, but it has been historically used for pertussis, and it's main keynote for coughs is that they're worse at night and generally  non productive. 

[Ruthla]

She's only 2 inches shorter than me (and lighter because I'm overweight) and I don't think I'd be able to pick her up like that.I wish I'd known what remedy to get when I was at Whole Foods yesterday. We've got about 4 inches of snow outside and I am NOT driving anywhere in this!

[Panserbjorne]

do you have any essential oils at home?  what about garlic?  ginger?  rosemary?  You can do a few steams during the day and use some EO's at night if you don't have anything else.  Also hydrotherapy is very effective (if uncomfortable) and garlic poultices can be great as well to loosen mucus.

I'm trying to think of what else you might have around the house....AVC or lemon in water can also break up mucus.

Vitamin A in fairly high doses can be a great help for pertussis as well.  Magnesium before bed (apart from calcium) can help with the spasmodic nature of the cough.   Hmmmm....I'll keep thinking.  These things help, but don't always change things enough on their own to make a significant difference.

If you go to the market tomorrow I'd want drosera and ipecac on hand.  Maybe others depending on what things are looking like then.

[MittensKittens]

My then one-year old DD and I both had pertussis three years back. I'll answer your questions from my experience, not necessarily from a scientific point of view.

Originally Posted by Ruthla 

She's been coughing for over a week, maybe two- no fever, but lots of coughing, a bit of a sore throat (from the coughing- no pain while swallowing). Once she coughed so much that she vomited a little. She's been tired and has had a slightly lower appetite than normal (but she just finished up midterms at school and hasn't been sleeping well- how to tell when fatigue is worse than "normal"?)

This evening, she had some big coughing fits, where she had trouble catching her breath while coughing. It suddenly occurred to me that she may have pertussis.

A few questions:

1) How do I keep the rest of us from getting sick?

I have heard that large doses of Vitamin C help, but frankly I don't think you can be certain other people in the household will not get pertussis too. By the time you have identified the cough as pertussis, it is probably too late.

2) Is there any point in taking her to the pediatrician? I don't want to expose babies to what she has, nor do I want her exposed to any new germs while her immunity is down, nor do I want to schlepp her out in the cold if it can be avoided. But if there's something the doctor can do that will actually help her, I'll take her in.

Not in my experience. We went to two pediatricians. Granted, we live in a developing country, but both were bad experienced. First, we were giving a drug for coughing that turned out to be very unsuitable for one-year olds, as it said in the package insert it was for ages five and up. Then we went to a major hospital. Getting the diagnosis was HARD. We were given amoxicillin. Later on, I heard that that actually prolongs the coughing period. It must have taken about a month in total.

3) Speaking of schlepping her out, she wants to go to the mall on Sunday. Is this a bad idea? Should I keep her and her germs inside for a while to protect others?

Yes, I would stay inside as much as reasonably possible. You don't want to give pertussis to newborns.

4) How long should it take her to get better now that I've finally convinced her to take raw garlic,avoid sugar, take extra vitamins C and D, ginger tea, etc? Is there anything else I should make her do that I haven't thought of?

It took us a month, two weeks of which were after the diagnosis. Antibiotics apparently make it less likely that the patient will pass pertussis on to others, but I heard that it prolongs the disease. That is in line with our experience. Last year, my son had a very pertussis-like cough (he wasn't born when my DD and I got it). I did vitamin C, nettle tea, good foods, and it went away within a week. But I am not certain that was actually pertussis. If it was, I can confirm that antibiotics make the disease last longer.

[Ruthla]

I think I'm doing an OK job keeping the rest of us healthy- I've upped our vitamins and I'm making soups with ginger, garlic, and parsley (plus other veggies and beans) every day.

But DD1 doesn't appear to be getting much better. The main problem is still her sleep- some nights she's able to sleep 12 hours and wakes up feeling better- and other nights she dozes but never really sleeps and just feels awful. I know she needs sleep to heal, but she's not always able to get it. I'd gladly give her OTC meds at night to help her sleep, if it worked- but we've tried that and she's still not able to fall asleep or stay asleep easily.

A big part of me just wants to say "OK, she has whooping cough, her immune system knows what to do and she'll be uncomfortable for a few days or weeks but there's no danger, I just need to keep her comfortable while her body does the hard work."

And then there's another part of me that's terrified she'll get sicker, or she'll give it to my parents and they'll be hospitalized, or somebody will call CPS on me for "medical neglect" for not taking her to the ped, or I'll take her to the ped and the ped will call CPS on me for medical neglect for not getting her vaccinated, or the ped will put her in the hospital where they really won't do anything that helps but I'll be completely drained staying there with her while my own needs (along with those of my other two kids) get ignored.

It's hard to just put faith in the human body in this society we live in. She's miserable, but my gut tells me she's not in any danger.

[tanyalynn]

  It's hard when they're sick.

First--a lot of the people in CA (and elsewhere, CA just seems to be in the news more) were vaccinated.  There seems to be a lot of hoopla in scientific circles about whether the bacteria is evolving in response to the vaccine (or just by chance) but they're not seeing the efficacy they expected.  And your daughter's a pretty old kid, the general prognosis for older kids is feeling sick and getting well on their own--I think that's generally understood.  So not bringing her in seems reasonable, from the standpoint of her age, the severity of illness you're seeing, and even from the standpoint of "not using medical resources that other, more vulnerable people may need."  So while I can't say for sure, I think your actions would pass the common sense/reasonable test even to someone with a conventional medicine mindset.  But hugs that you have to even consider that.

Next--ugh that she's still having such problems sleeping.  For my DD, ramping up high on the SA was really helpful, 3 or 4 doses/day--but that said, DD had a worse case than DS, and she's 2 years older (5yo, almost 6 at the time, vs DS who was 3.5yo), so something else was involved, and I'm not entirely clear what.  Sometimes a teaspoon or two of honey at bedtime slows down DD's coughing--when it's bad, it doesn't seem like enough, but it may help a bit, and it's tasty.  Wish I had other ideas. 

[gealach]

Originally Posted by Ruthla 

 The main problem is still her sleep- some nights she's able to sleep 12 hours and wakes up feeling better- and other nights she dozes but never really sleeps and just feels awful. I know she needs sleep to heal, but she's not always able to get it. I'd gladly give her OTC meds at night to help her sleep, if it worked- but we've tried that and she's still not able to fall asleep or stay asleep easily.

Haven't ever had whooping cough, but I so understand this.  After a horrible respiratory infection a year or two ago, I went back to the doctor (after two weeks) and told him that I absolutely did not want antibiotics, but I needed something to help me stop coughing so I could sleep.   My body couldn't do it's job and heal without sleep.  

There are prescription cough meds that could help - a cough syrup with codeine or tessalon pearls (also called "cough pearls") come to mind.  Those might be heavier drugs than you are comfortable giving your child, but thought I'd mention them just in case.   And, since they are prescription, you'd have to visit the doc for them.  And I do understand your concerns about taking her to the pediatrician.  

ETA:  Also, kind of like with croup, stepping out into the cold night air when you are having (or feel you are about to have) a coughing fit can help.  And humidification, of course. 

[mamaof5boys]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

do you have any essential oils at home?  what about garlic?  ginger?  rosemary?  You can do a few steams during the day and use some EO's at night if you don't have anything else.  Also hydrotherapy is very effective (if uncomfortable) and garlic poultices can be great as well to loosen mucus.

I'm trying to think of what else you might have around the house....AVC or lemon in water can also break up mucus.

Vitamin A in fairly high doses can be a great help for pertussis as well.  Magnesium before bed (apart from calcium) can help with the spasmodic nature of the cough.   Hmmmm....I'll keep thinking.  These things help, but don't always change things enough on their own to make a significant difference.

If you go to the market tomorrow I'd want drosera and ipecac on hand.  Maybe others depending on what things are looking like then.

Why ipecac? To vomit the thick mucus?

I have read about people going into high altitude (I think 10,000 feet for at least thirty minutes) substantially gets rid of symptoms.  You can google it to see articles.  Sounds like people would charter planes to do this.  I wonder if driving into a higher elevation would work too?  Sorry- didn't see where you live.  So sorry you have to deal with this mama!!

[deditus]

I think she means the homeopathic remedy ipecac, not syrup.

Originally Posted by mamaof5boys 

Why ipecac? To vomit the thick mucus?

[Ruthla]

I'm on Long Island and it's snowing outside- I'm not driving 5 miles to the doctor in this, much less the 100+ miles (over at least one bridge)  to the nearest mountain!

She seems to be doing better, as she's been able to sleep. Rescue Remedy in her water at night has been helping with the sleep a LOT, as the sleeping issue was as much psychological (fear of waking up coughing so she couldn't even fall asleep) as it was physical.

I've got eucalyptus and lavendar oils in the humidifier that's running in the living room (where shes' been sleeping.) She's been having foot soaks with epsom salts and ginger, putting her face over a bowl of hot water with essential oils added (eucalyptus and lavendar I think, though  she may have also added tea tree.) I've been giving her magnesium at night, she's taking her multivitamin plus extra vitamin D during the day, she's drinking lots of water, peppermint tea, and ginger tea, eating raw garlic, having lots of soups with garlic and cayenne pepper, and encouraging her to have lots of small meals (since bigger ones seem to come back up after coughing fits.) Yes, she is having lemon in some of that water as well. 

I spoke to the chiropractor on the phone yesterday, and I'm much less panicked now. We're doing all we can, and she is getting better, but it's a long, slow, illness and she'll be sick for a while. Being a typical teenager, she's frustrated that she can't go out and do fun things during her school vacation- she was hoping to do some shopping and see some friends, especially friends in different schools who are on different schedules than she is. That's one good thing about  sick little kids vs sick adolescents. Little kids don't get so impatient with all they can't do while sick!

[Ruthla]

Sick little kids also don't get PMS when they're sick.

[mamaof5boys]

Oh... Thank you for the information about the ipecac! Glad to hear she's feeling better!!!

[Ruthla]

She's feeling so much better that she wants to resume normal activities- specifically she wants to invite some friends over this afternoon/evening. My gut instinct is that this is a BAD idea, and risky for the friends. Chances are that the individuals she wants to invite are "fully vaccinated."

Should I not allow her to have anybody over?

[tanyalynn]

I wouldn't.  I kept us home, except me for a few necessary grocery trips, for 21 days after the start of the cough.  At least I think that's what it is, I looked it up back then.

IMO, that vaccine sucks, and even vaccinated friends may a) get sick and feel sick themselves, and that would be such a bummer for all concerned, and b) spread it around, even if they don't feel truly sick, to others who will feel sick. 

But I am so glad she's feeling better.  Great job Ruth! 

[Ruthla]

OK, I just nixed the "can my friend come over for an hour?" but she's going for a short walk instead. (I'm not sure if she's meeting the friend outside somewhere, but there's less chance of transmission if they're not meeting INSIDE, right?)

How long should I keep her  quaranteened if she's feeling OK overall but still coughing? Is it safe for her to return to school on Monday?

I'll need a doctor's note to send her back if she misses more than 3 days of school (this week she's on break.)