How do you teach your child good habits, when your DP doesn't require them or demonstrate them?

[Ann-Marita]

I'm talking about good character traits, things like responsibility, taking reasonably frequent baths, picking up the messes you create, hanging up your bath towel, putting your dirty clothes in the hamper, taking your dishes to the kitchen sink instead of leaving them on the table or next to the computer. 

DP often fails at doing this type of thing.  And he lets DD get away with not doing it, too!

Last night, I told DP "I need your help with enforcing that DD get her things done before she goes out tomorrow (Saturday), because I'll be at work."  I come home to find her bath towels on the floor and on her bed, clothes all over her room (her room was supposedly clean last night and all laundry put away). 

She DID take a shower, which I told her to do and made it clear that she would not be going out until she had.  But would it have been so very difficult for DP to tell her to hang up her towels?! 

I feel a lot of despair lately.  I want my teen to learn to be a responsible adult.  But I feel like I am the only adult in the household.  I feel like I am forced into being a hardass because her father seems to take so little responsibility.

They are out, "running errands".  Which means doing one or two things that don't really need to get done, and mostly just goofing off.

I just called her and told her that I will come pick her up, so she can complete some things around the house, because she really doesn't need to be going out until she has cleared her dishes and put away her towel.  If he's really got things that need to get done, he won't want to drive back home, drop her off and then continue, so I am quite willing to go meet them where they are and bring her home. 

[rubidoux]

Hmmmm....  ok, you're going to have to take this with a grain of salt because it's coming from someone who often doesn't do those things (well, not all of them) and when I do it is a struggle and runs completely counter to my personal style.  

First off, I have never thought of being neat and tidy as a character trait, or well groomed either.  To me, character traits are things like being empathetic, kind, nurturing, energetic (in terms of having zeal for life), fun (being the life of the party, or having the kind of mood/personality that's just fun to be around), serious, or gloomy.  I don't feel like picking one's clothes up off the bathroom floor ranks as a character trait -- but maybe that is just bc I wouldn't score very well on that front.

Anyway, I have two children, neither of whom I've been a terribly wonderful role model for in this department.  One of them is a lot like me and when I watch him I think, wow, that must have been me at that age.  The other one is like some foreign creature to me.  He's 23 months old and he likes to put his shoes away when he gets home.  He looks around the house for "garbage" and loves to throw it away.  Since I've been trying to get Milo to put his clothes in the laundry room when he takes them off, instead of throwing them on the floor where ever he happens to be, Augie has started picking his clothes up after he takes them off and puts them in the pile next to the washer.  He will almost always take his cup/plate/spoon into the kitchen and put them on the counter when he's done eating.  

I suppose maybe there're kids who are somewhere in between mine on this front, who maybe can be pushed in one direction or the other by their parents, but I have a feeling that mine are the way they are and will only be affected marginally by how I handle them.  Like I said, I am trying to work with Milo on a few things -- clothes in the laundry room, dishes next to the sink when he's done, etc, and I've seen some improvement, but I doubt it will ever be second nature for him.  

So what jumps out about your situation for me is that you seem to think that being neat is a pretty important thing and it may not be as important as you think.  There are plenty of responsible adults who are slobs.  And that you're being a little harsh about your partner -- He may not agree that hanging up her towel is a big deal, or maybe he had already had a huge ordeal with her trying to get her in the shower and wanted things to end on a better note.  Also, it sounds like he's a slob himself (no judgement meant be the term) so I'm sure he doesn't have any easy time teaching her how not to be.  I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that hanging the towel up never crossed his mind bc it's just not the type of thing he cares about.

I'm also wondering if the real problem is that you're having a hard time living with two people who don't clean up after themselves.  I think that would be really hard and trying to solve that problem (maybe everyone has their own chores or gives you 45 min a day during which they agree to do whatever tasks you set out for them) might be less loaded and unpleasant for everyone than trying to make your dh into a better parent and your dd into a responsible adult.

[Tjej]

I agree with the PP that it is more of a personality thing than a character issue (but I also struggle with the things you are talking about).  If it makes you feel any better, now that I'm married I have a really neat house and I put things away all the time. :)

As far as ideas, lists help me a lot.  Specific checklists.  I know, you shouldn't HAVE to spell out the 5 steps after a shower (wash, close curtain, hang towels, wipe floor, whatever), but some of us need that list if you want us to do it. 

ETA:  The idea of always checking a room before leaving it - a double check/scan - helps me a lot too.  Sometimes I am shocked by how I randomly miss 3 toys that are in the middle of the rug and have gotten everything else.  It's like I have some sort of blindness in the moment.  The final scan helps a lot.

HTH

Tjej

[pianojazzgirl]

Jayne's thoughts on this were right in line with my own thinking (and it sounds like we're equally "slobby" by nature, lol!)

I'm also wondering if the real problem is that you're having a hard time living with two people who don't clean up after themselves.  I think that would be really hard and trying to solve that problem (maybe everyone has their own chores or gives you 45 min a day during which they agree to do whatever tasks you set out for them) might be less loaded and unpleasant for everyone than trying to make your dh into a better parent and your dd into a responsible adult.

Maybe it's time for a family meeting.   To me it sounds like you are in a household with 1 person for whom it's very important that her home is neat and tidy and 2 people for whom dirty dishes left lying around don't even register.  You guys need to figure out how to strike a balance here.  As I mentioned above I tend towards slobbiness (is that even a word, lol?).  Dh is no Martha Stewart, but he's definitely more bothered by it than I am.  Though I can live in a quite messy environment (though interestingly my tolerance is lessening as I make more of an effort to keep things tidy!) I do make a real effort to keep things picked up, dishes put in the sink or dish washer, dirty clothes put in the hamper etc, because I know that it is really important to dh.  For him, coming home to a messy environment just instantly puts him in a stressed out mood.  For a while he would do almost all of the tidying and dishes - not because I was trying to be a jerk, but because it just really wouldn't register with me.  I could look right past the dirty cup next to the computer, or discarded pjs from the kids on the living room floor or whatever.  Over time I came to realize how important it was to dh.  I came to realize that for him it really shows my love and appreciation for him when I go above and beyond my natural inclinations in housekeeping.  I also realized that the division of labour was not fair and I could understand how resentment could be brewing in him.  In the past couple of years I've changed quite a bit in my habits.  Not only is the house much neater but I can no longer "not see" those dirty dishes or toys strewn around, yk.  I've actually changed my internal level of slobbiness considerably.

Not sure exactly what I'm getting across here.  I guess it's that you need both of your "housemates" to understand exactly how it makes you feel to live in an untidy environment, and how v. v. appreciative you are whenever they do make the effort to tidy up.  They also need to know that  you end up feeling resentful when you feel like they aren't making the effort.  It's not really fair that everything should fall on you, just because you're the one most bothered by it - they helped make the mess and they need to help tidy it.  Then brainstorm.  What are the things that need doing.  Who should be responsible for what.  How can you best implement whatever plan you come up with.  You should probably accept the fact that your dh and dd are not being malicious, but truly don't register the mess.  However, that doesn't mean that you should be left to do everything.  It just might mean that things need to be really spelled out in your house.  Even as far as having a "post dinner checklist" of different tasks that need to be taken care of after dinner, like doing dishes, putting away left-overs, sweeping the floor, etc (a friend of mine had this in his house when he was a teen - a physical list that he and his sibs were responsible of taking care of after every dinnertime).

HTH!

[pianojazzgirl]

Another quick thought.  It really does help my motivation in keeping things clean when dh notices and appreciates what I've done.  Even little things, yk, like clearing off and wiping clean the table or something like that.  If I go to great effort, completely against my natural inclinations, to do a bunch of cleaning or tidying, and then he doesn't even seem to notice I feel quite discouraged. 

[AmaraMonillas]

I agree that being tidy does not equal being a responsible adult.  However, being considerate to those you live with, and preventing unsanitary living conditions are one part of being a "responsible adult" (by unsanitary I mean excessive odor, growth of mildew/mold on towels, dishes, in the bathroom etc or so much clutter it could encourage rodents to come live).  So I think it may help if you differentiate between what behaviors are truly inconsiderate or unsanitary and which are just personally distasteful to you.  

For example; does she actually smell, or are you just accustomed to showering daily?  Would there be less battles if her room (and bathroom if it isn't shared) had to be cleaned every week but in-between cleanings you just kept the door closed so you aren't bothered by it?  I don't know what you current expectations are, so those are just possible scenarios.

I also think having one designated time (like before dinner or bed) when both your husband and daughter pick up things that are left in common areas could be helpful.  That way you aren't on them all the time about things that they truly don't notice, but you also don't have to do it all or have excessive mess build up.

Good luck with this, I know it can be really frustrating living with others who aren't affected by mess in the same way you are. I share a house with 4 wonderful adults who never think to do anything but occasionally load the dishwasher 

[Linda on the move]

I think that one can be a slob and be responsible, or be a slob and be irresponsible, but it sounds like your DP is both and that you are afraid your DD will turn out like him.

I think that when there are habits we want our children to develop that our DP lacks, it is unrealistic to expect DP to be part of helping the child develop those habits.  Since you use the word"despair,"  I wonder how much of your question is about how to teach your child to pick up after herself, and how much is angry and frustration with your DH for being the way he is.

If you are fundamentally  unhappy with your DP as a person because he's an irresponsible slob, that's a problem totally aside from your dd. And it's worthy of "despair." 

If you are just frustrated with your teenager leaving her towel on the bed, it's not worthy of "despair". It's a pretty normal teen thing to do in spite of what the parents do or what the kid was capable at age 5. It's not something to have a big drama about, just remind her when she gets home.

If you just want to know how to help your DD learn pick up skills, break down what she needs to do on a daily basis into morning and evening routines, both of which will take less 10 minutes, and then post them on her door. Keep referring her to the list. My kids have to pick up their things out of the "family" part of the house before bed, and they have to leave their bathroom presentable when they leave for school, but their rooms are their own business. They do their own laundry on Sundays.

(And oddly, putting the kids in school helped with this issue. It wasn't the reason they started school, but the structure of the school day added a level of routine to our day that helped my kids learn some better habits)

[Tigerchild]

I think it sounds like you all need to sit down as a family and determine how to keep everyone the happiest most of the time.  Which means, you are going to have to give, and so will they.

I lived in a household for which neatness and appearance was THE HIGHEST rated "character value".  It was horrible.  I was told on a regular basis that I was a slob and therefore nobody would like me and I couldn't function in the outside world (neither of which are true BTW).  If a towel was on the floor, it ranked on the upset like stage four squalor.

The practical effect of that was that I never learned how to clean or tidy (my parents were too impatient to teach me, and told me if I was a good person, I would know.) until I was a grown woman and asked my every-other-week housekeeper to teach me how (she did, very much mothering me in a good way in the process--even though she has moved away we still keep in touch!)  The personal effect was that I have super high anxiety over the state of my house, no matter what state it's in.  I get overwhelmed with disorder, but reorder is not natural to me AND it puts me in a huge state of anxiety, which makes it harder to do the things i need to do.  I get distressed at my parenter and my kids over things that I cannot communicate very well to them because in my mind because these things don't come naturally to me I am a bad, defective PERSON.  That is the danger, I think, of assuming and projecting neatness as a *character trait* on your kids and yourself.  Is it a responsibilty issue?  Sure--esp. when there are other people in the home who are not happy with how things are.  But it does not mean that you are a bad person and once you infect your children with that idea you have (or perhaps you DO which is why you view it this way) it is damn near impossible to silence that critical voice.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild 

The personal effect was that I have super high anxiety over the state of my house, no matter what state it's in.  I get overwhelmed with disorder, but reorder is not natural to me AND it puts me in a huge state of anxiety, which makes it harder to do the things i need to do.

I'm a bit like this, too...and it's a hangover from my grandmother's hangups with neatness. I'm the second generation of our family with issues about this, because this was just such a huge deal. I don't think people should keep house like I do (although I'm getting slowly and gradually better...and dh will tackle some of the things that are just SO huge to me, but not a big deal to him). But, I really don't think a neat house is the hallmark of a responsible adult, either (I've certainly known any number of people, who mix up levels of responsbility and levels of neatness in all kinds of weird ways).

[Linda on the move]

My home growing up was spotless and every closet looked perfect. My mom is nuts. For awhile after I moved out, I lived in filth. This was one of the many issues I worked on in therapy! I'm very pleased to have found the middle path. The middle path is a lovely relaxed place where people can find things but it looks like people live there.