Pretending he can't do anything

[Grace and Granola]

My second son will be 4 in a couple of weeks.  I have been dealing with him feigning helplessness for a long time. I have been hoping it's a phase, but I'm not so sure.  Some days I just help him with every.single.thing.  Sometimes i try new techniques to encourage him and give him confidence.  This phase is just not passing. Examples:  He usually will not put on his shoes, coat, pants, etc. by himself and will tell me he can't. Although, I know he can, because he's done each of those things several times before.  I will ask him to try his best and if he needs help I will be happy to.  He makes a fake attempt (with attitude) that inevitably doesn't work and then cries for help. If we are at the dinner table and he needs a spoon, I will say he is welcome to go get a spoon from the drawer and he will tell me he can't because he's tired of walking.  When it's time to go upstairs for quiet time, he will fall to the ground and say he can't climb the stairs because his legs hurt.  Virtually anything I ask him to do causes a giant scene and either me doing just what he demands or it turns into a major power struggle.  Most of the time, I end up telling him that if he will ask me nicely, I will help him.  He does, and I do.

Some things I've thought of that might be part of the problem, he is younger than his older brother by 17 months.  They are at a point where ds2 can do almost everything ds1 can as far as playing with the same toys, doing the sames things at the playground.  They are treated the same alot by me and my husband, and at times I have to remind myself.....he's only 3.  He's big for his age and also seems more advanced in some ways, I'm sure partly because he's had big brother to follow so closely.  So it is hard to remember that he is "only 3."  But, I do know that at almost 4, he should be able to do a few things on his own.  like putting his shoes and pants on.  I don't feel like I ask him to do anything that he hasn't done at one time in the past or that he shouldn't at least be trying his best.  This child is just so obstinate in nature.  If I say black he'll say white!  My older son was nothing like this, so I'm in new territory with this one. I never compare the boys and say things like, "your brother can do this!"  But is there something I'm missing with how to help my ds2 gain some independence and confidence that he can do these things if he tries?  Or is this just attention seeking, and if so, what specifically do you think would be helpful.  I am a SAHM and I homeschool my older ds. I am with them ALL the time!  I try to include ds2 when possible, though he is so NOT a "schooly" type kid, so I'm trying to be creative with ways to include him in a more hands-on approach.  But mostly he just likes to play and I let him.  I just don't feel like he's not getting enough attention, but maybe it's not the "right" kind off attention that he is seeking.

Please, any thoughts or advice are welcome and appreciated!

[Thandiwe]

I don't have a ton of advice, as I'm in a similar situation with my middle child (he's nearly 3.5 years old).  He has recently begun saying, "I can't; I don't know how to," about a lot of things from washing his hands to putting his shoes on to various other tasks.

One thing that works with my son, at times and not by any means all the time, is to say, "Ok," and leave it undone.  Obviously that doesn't work for some of the big ticket items like wearing a coat (we live in MI where it's bitterly cold right now), but in the example you gave where he asked for a spoon, when he said, "I can't," I'd say, "Ok, no spoon then."  And really stick to it; don't get up and get the spoon.  With my son, it works some of the time.  I'm not trying to be harsh, but I'm trying to impress on him that, 1) you are old enough to begin being independent, and 2) there are natural consequences.  I know it's not the same, but as he gets older, if he "doesn't want to go to work," I want my son to know that no one will force him to do it; he just won't get a paycheck.  It's a choice.  Life is all about choices.

Like I said, though, there are some things that it isn't worth battling, because the more attention you throw at it, the worse it may become.  And when it comes to wearing a jacket, being buckled up in the car, or having brushed teeth, it will happen.  Period.  I hope it helps, even a little.  I feel for you, since I am going through the same thing.  I find myself daily walking the line between being harsh, being a push-over/maid, and trying to encourage gently.

[Grace and Granola]

Well, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one!  I've tried what you mentioned about just saying, fine, then no spoon.  It seems that he does this most when it really counts.  The thing with dinner is that if I say "no spoon," then he bawls through dinner (so often, I give in.)  Or we realllllly need to get out the door and then all of a sudden, he can't put his shoes on.  Maybe he knows this.  The thing is, if he would just bring his shoes to me and say, "hey mom!  can you help me put my shoes on?"  Then I would absolutely do it--joyfully.  It's the sudden breakdown, whining, crying, helpless attitude that just grates on me.  I'm one of those that has the mindset of "he's not going to ask you to put his shoes on him when he's in high school."  Right?  Hold the drama, please!

[Thandiwe]

Oh I so feel for you!  I know *exactly* how you feel!!  Grrrr!! 

[sunnygir1]

My dd does that a lot too, but she is my oldest.  She will be 4 in a few weeks as well, and I feel like this has been going on for approximately 6 months.

Often it's when she doesn't want to do something, for example, almost every night when it's time to get ready for bed she "can't walk".

She has also i the last month or two become afraid of going into her bedroom or the bathroom alone at night unless someone else goes ahead of her and turns on the lights.

She also just melts down about a thousand things some days.  Instead of saying, "Mama, would you please get me some water?" she says, "WATER!" in a whiney, demanding voice.  Man, that sets me off.  I try to respond calmly, but I find myself yelling at her way too often.

I don't know what the answers are.  I generally think it's better to ignore it when I can, offer help preemptively when it makes sense (like when we're in a hurry), include her by politely asking her if she will help set the table, etc., putting my foot down gently when I have to, "Would you like to ask me that in a different way?"  "If you are going to keep yelling, please go outside or into your bedroom."

I haven't seen these tactics make much of a difference, but I have to believe that in the long run they will.  And I'm sure it's way better than yelling at her when she yells at me.  ; )

[Soapmom]

I am having the same problem with my youngest dd, she is 4. Sometimes she is fine and other times she says she can't do anything. It seems like she is testing me to see how much she can get away with making me do. The worst is going to the bathroom with her. At first she just made me go with her, then, I couldn't just stand in the bathroom, I had to stand right in front of her, then I had to hold her hand, then I had to stand by her and let her hug me and lean over and rub her back. And if I refuse she sits there and screams and won't go to the bathroom. Sometimes it's easier to just do what she asks rather than deal with the fit she will throw, but since giving in just makes her ask for more, I need to try something else.

I just read a book that says to calmly say no and turn and walk away. Eventually they will do it themselves or go without.  Makes sense in theory, but my stubborn girl would probably scream for hours without giving in. Plus, like you say, sometimes you have to get shoes and coat on and get out the door, so there isn't time to say no and just not do it. I am working on not giving in though, because it makes her ask for more and more once she sees she can get away with it. Also when she does do something herself I make sure to tell her how proud I am of her so she will hopefully want to do more for herself.  I also wonder if it's just that she needs some extra 1 on 1 attentions from me. Lately she will fake fall down and say "mom, help me, I can't get up" and obviously she can. It's just an attention thing.

Marcy

[meemee]

i think its spot on age appropriate behav. its them coming onto a cusp (4 1/2 is the magic time when they suddenly mature) and they cant figure out whether to be babies or grown up. 

if you feel its more an attention seeking gesture then instead of encouraging him to do things on his own, make sure you find some time during the day to spend one on one with him. 

if you think its the wanna be a baby situation (that was with my dd) encourage them to do things they want to do but are scared to do. for instance at that age i no longer was the one in the lead in crossing the road. we switched roles. dd because the mommy and i became her dd and she had to correctly cross the road. she loved that vote of confidence and i was always there to gently point out the mistake. i also gave her more chores to do telling her she could do it. i believed in her. 

[waiting2bemommy]

My ds does this and it drives us crazy. Oddly enough he doesn't do it nearly as much with his dad, I think because DP doesn't have tolerance for it and will start yelling at him.

With me though he pushes every limit possible. I try to detach myself emotionally from it so as not to go stark raving crazy from the frustration. 

A typical morning rputin which should only take 20 minutes at best generally takes us 45 minutes to 2 hrs. At this point I am home in the mornings so I don't usually have anything pressing that makes me need to rush him, but if we have to go somewhere I literally want to pull my hair out. With ds if you give in once you are signing up for at LEAST 2 weeks of boundary testing until it is reestablished so for us giving in and dressing him ro feeding him or cleaning up for him is not an option. It makes everything so much worse.

Ds kept saying he didn't know where his clothes were EVERY morning. So I drew pictures of each cltohing item and taped the pictures along with the words on the appropriate drawers. The next morning he laid on the floor crying pitifully that he didn't know how to read and that his eyes didn't know how to look at the pictures. When I was about to reach my limit with him I guess he sensed that and pulled off all the labels and ripped them up and then went back to crying that he didn't know where his clothes were.  I just go online or go back to sleep in his bed, or read stories with dd and ignore him. If he tries to get my attention I tell him calmly, "I know you can do it, let me know when you're finished." The trick is to distract myself so that I don't go crazy waiting for him to comply.

I guess I'm not much help, but I certainly do sympathize! And like you I really, really, REALLY hope this is a short lived phase.

[BubbleMa]

"Some days I just help him with every.single.thing. "

This is your problem.  He knows you will help him if he whines enough, so he does.  My suggestion would be to stop helping him with things he knows how to do.  If he doesn't feel like getting up to get a spoon, sorry!  No spoon.  Then I would start praising him when he does do things on his own.  Not in the superficial, "Good job!" way, but in a meaningful way.  Say something like, "I'm really proud of you for putting your shoes on by yourself."  Even if it's something he typically does on his own anyway.  It will build his confidence, and also offer positive attention.

[Petie1104]

I'm on my 4th and last through this phase, and trust me, it can be a phase.  Though reinforcing the behavior will make it last longer.  I do love this one piece of information I got out of a book once, and I can't remember which one (I read too  much).

The idea is that there is age EXPECTED behavior, but she called it that, age expected, not age appropriate, because it isn't always behavior we want to say is appropriate.  The child still needs to learn NOT to do certain things.  This really put it in perspective for me.  Expect the behavior and be ready to correct it.

So, for this behavior, I think some things help.  Very much like BubbleMa says, don't.  Don't help if you know he can do it.  If he wants a spoon, then either he wants it enough to go get it, or he doesn't really want it.  If he wants to go outside that day, either he wants to enough to put on his pants and shoes or he doesn't. 

Now this works for situations where you have hours to sit there and suffer through the whining and begging (don't worry that only happens for a few of the times until he gets the hint).  But what about quiet time.  Well, that one is where I get up, take them by the hand (no PICKING THEM UP), and walk them to their room.  They will drag their feet, go limp etc.  But stick with it and eventually he will get to his room on his own foot power.  You can also make him own himself.  Rather than, "You need to go to your room", say, "Can you take yourself to your room, or do you need help with that?"  Of course, if he wants help he has to admit that he is not in control of himself, that he isn't capable of "taking himself" where he needs to go.  For some kids, they aren't willing to do that so they end up moving.  Others, don't really care and you have to go, take them by the hand, and lead them. 

Don't worry, he will get through this, you will not be dressing him and tying his shoes when he leaves for college.  (this has become my mantra, he won't be wearing diapers going to college, he won't be begging me to tie his shoes when he goes to college. It works for about everything).

[mommatooth]

Oh my, I feel like I wrote this original post!  We have been all around this issue at 3 years.  Well we ARE still in this issue.  The one thing that works for me is knowing that I am willing to help her (I always will I love her right?) but I won't do it if I feel duped or coerced via "I can't".  I have had success with " Do you need a wiggle hug or a squeeze hug to help with your socks?" and (finally, instead of insisting her legs are broken) she will tell me "I just want you to carry me down the stairs".  I am ok with that, she is 42 pounds and I wish she would walk :) but if she can vioce that she just needs a boost- great- I wish someone would carry me at times :)  It's the drama and pathetic routine that make me want to say "forget it, get it yourself" etc.  I think that needing extra help is fine- recognizing it is healthy, whining and pretending failure is unhelpful, but I don't want to put out there- you did it yesterday, you should do it today...but ask appropriately, know what you need, a boost, some help, a hug, general support.  I don't usually put the socks on, but I give enough jedi mind support to redress my whole daughter.  

[Grace and Granola]

Thank you all!  I breathed a sigh of relief after reading through all of your replies.  Since I didn't go through this with my first child, I guess I just didn't expect this to be "age expected behavior."  We will all get through this!

[HopefullyMama]

Hi!  I hear all you moms with this issue, I've taken care of a lot of 4 yo.'s as a nanny, and this is certainly a recurring theme.  They want to help out and be big kids SO BADLY when they are 2-3, then suddenly seem like they have second thoughts about growing up!  

The thing that has helped me in the past the most has been modeling, and treating them as "big kids" as much as I could.  I would ask for their help genuinely ("Jay I could really use some help setting the table; could you get me 6 spoons from the drawer?") and when they complied, I would thank them rather than praise them.  Idk, but it seems like there is a real difference between those two things.  I would hate for my DBF or some other adult to tell me "You're such a good kid (woman, person) for doing these dishes"....it's much easier to hear "Thank you for doing the dishes", and makes you more likely to do them in the future, I think.  

Another variation on this theme was a little role reversal (just like PP mentioned).  Let them be the adult in a situation, even if you have to fudge it sometimes.  It's no fun being around someone who constantly seems more capable than you in every way imaginable, even if it is your own mom.  

I remember when this 3.5 year old boy who I had been having ALOT of trouble with FINALLY came around and we became best buds.  We were playing outside, and I slammed my foot into something really hard.  It hurt like the dickens!!  And I let him see how much it hurt, and he seemed pretty concerned, so I let him handle it.  He took my hand and walked me inside to the bathroom.  He went to the cabinet and got out wound wash, a wash cloth, and a band-aid.  He even told me where to sit and how to hold my foot so he could wash it off for me.  I tried my best to let him be the capable one, while I modeled being a "good" patient, but playing it up a bit.  I would say "will the hurt? I'm a little scared, I don't know if I can do this. Oh, it stings a little bit!  But I'm going to try and hold still anyway.  Ouch!", and he would tell me "It's okay if you cry, try to be brave" in his most concerned, grown-up voice   It was the sweetest thing, and I will always treasure that moment, I'm sure.  

After that he seemed like a new boy.  Confident, more empathetic, and responsible.  Maybe you could find something where he really COULD be the grown-up?  Just a thought!

[LynnS6]

I'd also recommend the book: "Kids, Parents & Power Struggles" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka.

My kids have both gone through "I can't" phases. It passes. Not as quickly as you'd like, but it does. It actually passes faster if you don't try to push them too hard to do things themselves.

Instead of focusing on the self-help, I'd focus on the other behaviors (whining, crying). So, in the spoon example, I would honestly most likely simply have gotten it. If I was tapped out and couldn't muster the energy, I would have said "I'm busy right now. You can wait until I'm done eating my food, or you can get one yourself." If he was willing to wait until I was done, I would have done it. If he screamed and cried, I would have said "you have the choice of doing it yourself, or waiting. If you can't be pleasant at the table, you can wait in your room". And then I would have spent the next 10 minutes sending him to his room (taking him back, sending him, taking him back) until he calms down.

What I would NOT do is say "I can't do that right now" and then give in after 5 minutes of crying/whining. That is setting the stage for more whining down the road. A LOT more whining, because then he's playing the whining lottery. "Maybe if I whine, she'll give in!" Intermittently reinforcing a behavior is the best way to make it stick long term.

I would also practice, in a calm moment, "calm voices" and "whiny voices". The kids think this is hysterical (you whine, the you're calm, then they do it -- you can really ham it up and tell them, "oh no, that's not whiny enough, try again..." But this practices a good skill of switching from whine to calm. Then, tell him when he starts to whine, "Please take a deep breath and ask me in a calm voice, and I'll gladly help you." Then if he gets close to calm, say "thank you" and help. It took us about 18 months to 2 years to 'cure' dd of whining, and when she's emotionally overwhelmed, it still creeps back in. At least now she runs up to her bedroom and hurls herself on the floor to have her fit, rather than having it in my ear!

[mommatooth]

I am resurrecting this thread because my daughter has really taken this over the top lately.  She will insist that she cannot put her own underwear on (which she has been doing for about a year), when I remind her how capable she can be, she then goes in to a usually lengthy description of how last week when she was playing with her dolls, her wrist got bumped and she has an ouchy and can't move her hand.  Ummm no, that didn't happen, but creative.  I sometimes look at the body part in question, but usually just say "nope, there is nothing wrong with your hand/foot/fingers/feet  etc."  

so back to the underwear, I digress.  after 20 minutes of whining and excuse making, she gets them to her thighs (with just one hand because the other is crippled obviously). I notice this and say something like "it's not too far from there, just pull 'em up over your bum and you're done...in a playful cheering on voice.  she then yanks them off completely, which obviously takes way more energy and coordination than sliding them the next 2 inches... especially if you are nursing a broken hand. 

I didn't freak out (eventhough it was 4am and we were 20 minutes invested in those 10 inches, but that is a whole other set of issues)  and said something like "oh bummer, guess you have to start over"....

well anyway, she finally got them on, yes, it would have been FAR easier for me to just do it, but I have such a hard time helping her when she demands, whines, makes false excuses and acts generally helpless.  I know she just wants support, but how can I help her see that I do support her, I will help her but it is wrong to fake broken hands and legs to get help.  Those things just aren't true and I don't feel like helping when she says untrue things or screams at me. 

so I am wondering if I need to just start doing EVERYTHING for her, unless she stops me and wants to do it herself.  I have been trying to help her see how capable she is, but she seems to not be ready, even at 3.5, to take on most challenges that I KNOW she can do.  I know in the case of the underwear, we would have been much better off if I had just assumed responsibility from the start, it would have taken 12 seconds.  No, whining, no faking, no screaming.

I am not a fan of this plan, I am looking for alternatives.  Anyone else have experience with feigned injuries and not just helplessness, but obvious sabotage?

[meemee]

yup i just did it for my dd. 

to me it was her kind of separation anxiety. it was kinda her struggling to be a big girl and a baby at the same time.

it isnt about her refusing to do these things.

its about her wanting to feel loved and that nontypical acceptance from us - that no matter what we will love them forever.

dd is 8. somedays she is tired or upset or in a hurry. and she asks me for help. the difference between younger time and now is that now she can explain why. 

this is such a common, age appropriate behaviour that the majority of the children go through that to argue and insist according to me is a waste of time. i just did it.

however here is something interesting.

i come from asia from a culture where a child is not expected to do many things till they start school. yes children are fed and clothed till school starts. in my limited experience i have never seen a child around me go thru this stage. in fact its the opposite. 

[PatchChild]

DS is almost four and tries the same thing from time to time. We've gotten some good progress by talking about the difference between not wanting to and unable to do things. When he starts into telling me that he can't put on his shoes (which he has been able to do for a year), I rephrase it. Oh, you don't want to put on your shoes right now? Usually he will echo that back, that he doesn't want to put them on. Then we can move on to if I'm willing to help or if I expect him to do it on his own.

[mommatooth]

yes, I have really tried hard to explain the difference between not able to and "my legs are broken so I can't".  For a while I had success with getting her to voice "I just want to be carried"  instead of my feet are bleeding or something  equally bizarre.  We don't watch television or have any other direct access to violence, I am not sure where she come up with these graphic injuries.  Then I am stuck carrying her everywhere as she tries this out...  then we went through a phase where I had to explain that eventhough she could ask appropriately, I still might not be willing to grant her every wish.... and now we are right back to broken legs.  This had been going on for 4 months.  Yesterday she rolled herself down the stairs to prove that her legs don't work.  She has tried this before I and I was there to catch her.  I am less worried that she is going to hurt herself-  proving her injuries, than I am freaked out about her need to BE INJURED.  

I give this child tons of one on one personal attention.  I feel like if my daughter doesn't start becoming more capable, I am really going to lose it though.  I don't know how to fill her up any more and (right or wrong)  I see these pretend injury situations as an extra drain.  

So for us it is not just that she takes no initiative, but that most days she pretends to be an invalid.  I have never entertained this as the truth, and we have talked extensively about the difference between pretend and real.  I have even told her that it makes me feel weird when she pretends to be injured to get something, rather than just ask, and that I am less likely to help her if I think she is telling me something that isn't true.  This is a lot of ground to cover for her I think, but I am really not comfortable with this manipulation.  Talk about playing the victim!

If it is not a broken toe or dead foot, then she is just "really scared"  or "freezing" and could get an oscar for her convulsions to corroborate this.   She wakes up like this, I need something to break this routine.   I really don't know what to do with this EXTREMELY needy child.  I don't have any more for her because I am spending all of my energy dealing with these situations.  I would love to take that energy and use more of it for positive interactions and maybe some housekeeping :)

suggestions and commiserations here...

[meemee]

mommatooth - this is not about her. this is about you.

and your post is shouting plain and clear to me that you need to take care of yourself. 

it CAN be done. sometimes its just little things. you giving yourself permission to sit and enjoy your iced water for 2 mins. or getting that scarf that you like instead of writing it off as not necessary.

your dd is being normal. i remember actually doing so myself. i recall acting as if i had fainted and lying on the floor waiting for my mom to find me. so i wouldnt have to take a shower. never worked. 

this is soooo atypical age appropriate behaviour that you having trouble with it speaks more about you than her. 

honestly while one part of me felt such a connection and sympathy for you )i have a high needs intense child) , the other part was dying laughing at your dd's extent. seriously i have been shaking with laughter. woah she is one tough cookie. even roll down the stairs. i mean today its a frustrating behaviour but her tenacity is going to be huge as an adult. 

i know you were hoping you'd get more of a break. but remember mama - these very highly imaginative kids who one day will fly the roost but they need to feel secure. and that's why they demand attention. 

PLUS keep an eye on it. perhaps she IS having growing pains. perhaps she is in pain even if it is exxagerated as broken legs. my dd got too big for me. and i explained to her. mama just cant carry you. yeah even though the crocodiles and polar bears are chasing you. i started using teh stroller much more regularly. i think that's when she even truly used it. 

for those of us with needy intense children it becomes absolutely imperative that we take care of ourselves. it is NOT an option. it is a necessity. 

i am such a diffirent parent when i take care of my needs. the very thing that makes me soooo angry is the very thing at other times that make me laugh. 

taking care of myself makes me a more patient and understanding parent. 

but mama defintely keep an eye. could something be physically wrong? the only way she can express it is by putting them in her words. i have no idea how to know the difference between pretending and reality - but do you feel 100 % confident that its not a reflection of something. i mean rolling down the stairs is pretty drastic. waking up with foot issues - are you SURE her issues are not physical. 

this IS the age of drama says the mother of a drama queen. everything is big and intense. my question to you is why are you frustrated instead of laughing at her or admiring her tenacity and refusing to carry her if you have had enough. our kids dont give up being carried without a fight. like i would tell my dd umteenth times she is just too heavy and i dont want to hurt my back. 

[revolting]

I'm so glad to hear that this is typical behavior.