Physically removing toys for LO's hand? When? Why?

[cyclamen]

Of course I want DD 1.5 to learn to be courteous and kind.  But what is the right way to teach it?  I've caught myself prying something out of DD's hand a few times in the last week because she was playing with a community toy and didn't want to hand it off. This doesn't feel right to me.  I feel like I am modeling snatchy behavior by removing a toy to share with another kid (or in once case, giving a kid her shoe back - it was outsize and not being worn, but it was hers) but I am not sure what else to do except avoid playgroups for a while while I actively model sharing with her and around her.  I am actually willing to do that if it is a better option.

Tell me how you approached this situation and what you felt worked and didn't.  I think I need some more ideas!

edit: Oh and in both cases, I did ask her to please give blah to Kid B or whatever, but she didn't want to. I feel I kind of had a teaching moment fail because instead of modeling communication and negotiation, I skipped straight to force, playing on my parental authority/larger person status. Which is exactly what I don't want her to do, right? And I did it because I was afraid that it would be rude for me to make another parent's child wait while I talked with DD more.

[mamazee]

I personally think this is a thing that is easy to over-think.  I know there are people who disagree, but I think it's fine to take the toy away, and then replace it with something else, and say "so and so was playing with that.  You can play with this now."  Or whatever.  It hasn't lead to increased toy snatching at all here.  My older daughter is challenging in some ways, but even when she was an only child, and at a pretty early age, she has always since getting through this toddler stage been wonderful at sharing.  The one who is turning 2 next month has already stopped snatching toys  despite me taking them away from her.  (I'm now knocking on wood hoping I didn't jinx myself -  don't want her to start up again!)  Anyway, taking toys away from them and giving them back to other children from whom they'd been taken has had no adverse affects for us.  And you're right, at 1.5, they are unlikely to give the toy to someone else when you ask.

[mnj77]

She probably won't learn to share well for quite a while, and all the other parents are going through or have gone through the same thing, so I wouldn't avoid playgroups based on this!  Here are some ideas:

Maybe you could reframe the situation as you pry the toy out of her hands ;)  "This toy is for everyone to share.  You've had a good turn, and now I'm going to help you give Billy a turn.  Then we can find another fun toy for you to play with."  That might be too many words for a 1.5 year old, but I'm out of practice!  

You could also try to get her interested in something else that she could trade for the toy she has.

Or, if you're talking about a community toy that she's actively playing with, tell the other kid to wait until she's done with it and see if she moves on to something else. 

[cyclamen]

Originally Posted by mnj77 

She probably won't learn to share well for quite a while, and all the other parents are going through or have gone through the same thing, so I wouldn't avoid playgroups based on this!  Here are some ideas:

Maybe you could reframe the situation as you pry the toy out of her hands ;)  "This toy is for everyone to share.  You've had a good turn, and now I'm going to help you give Billy a turn.  Then we can find another fun toy for you to play with."  That might be too many words for a 1.5 year old, but I'm out of practice!  

You could also try to get her interested in something else that she could trade for the toy she has.

Or, if you're talking about a community toy that she's actively playing with, tell the other kid to wait until she's done with it and see if she moves on to something else. 

These are all great ideas, thanks!  I'm not really expecting her to learn to share right away, but navigating playgroup etiquette gives me hives sometimes so avoiding groups is probably more for me than for her... lol.

We actually did "toy trade" today when visiting with some friends and it worked great.

[kiwiva]

I felt the same way, uncomfortable about grabbing it out of her hand. I would take DD aside and get her to hand it over to me. Sometimes it would take a bit of prodding but eventually she would give it to me and I would hand it over to the other child. When she got a bit older, she would hand it over herself (with prodding).  I only did this if she took something from another child. If it was a community toy, I never liked forcing anyone to end their turn at some arbitrary time limit. It really made me uncomfortable when parents would demand their kid hand over something just because someone else wanted it. Yes, it's for everyone, but that doesn't have to mean everyone gets 1 minute with it or something. At that age they almost always lose interest in whatever it is pretty quickly.

[phathui5]

 I feel like I am modeling snatchy behavior by removing a toy to share with another kid 

You are. I would not recommend taking a toy from a child because someone else wants a turn with it, unless there are no other toys around that the other kid could use.

 Quote:

 (or in once case, giving a kid her shoe back - it was outsize and not being worn, but it was hers) 

That's harder, since it is the other kid's shoe. I would probably ask the child for permission for dd to play with it, but if they say no, it gets given back.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by phathui5 

 I feel like I am modeling snatchy behavior by removing a toy to share with another kid 

You are. I would not recommend taking a toy from a child because someone else wants a turn with it, unless there are no other toys around that the other kid could use.

But what if the child has played with it for a designated length of time and it's the other child's turn?  

OP - I agree you're overthinking it.  As an adult in charge I think it's absolutely my place to take a toy from my kids if they're refusing to share.  They just don't have the ability to work this stuff out for themselves and that's fine.  That's why there are parents.

[MamieCole]

Not sure if this would work in a playgroup, as I tend to avoid them at all costs. But with my 15 month old and his big brother, if the baby has a toy that DS1 wants, I simply tell him "He's only one. He doesn't understand taking turns yet, but he'll lose interest in it and move on to something else very quickly. Just watch." And then thirty seconds later the baby drops it and moves on to something else. Sometimes I even have DS1 count to himself to see how long it takes before DS2 drops the toy and starts playing with something else. 

Obviously this works best when one child is old enough to understand and has the patience to wait a few moments. 

I'd not hesitate to gently pry something out of DS2's hands like in the shoe situation. I'd try to make sure I had something to exchange with him to make it easier. 

[cyclamen]

The shoe thing I really did not feel bad about, actually, for all of the reasons listed.  In the future, I will offer her a trade first.  But the other situation (community toy, other kid looking interested, parents standing by) this is very similar to how I feel:
 

Originally Posted by kiwiva 

I felt the same way, uncomfortable about grabbing it out of her hand. I would take DD aside and get her to hand it over to me. Sometimes it would take a bit of prodding but eventually she would give it to me and I would hand it over to the other child. When she got a bit older, she would hand it over herself (with prodding).  I only did this if she took something from another child. If it was a community toy, I never liked forcing anyone to end their turn at some arbitrary time limit. It really made me uncomfortable when parents would demand their kid hand over something just because someone else wanted it. Yes, it's for everyone, but that doesn't have to mean everyone gets 1 minute with it or something. At that age they almost always lose interest in whatever it is pretty quickly.

I  also don't expect other kids to hand over what they are playign with just because DD looks at it.  I want her to learn that there's always something cool around the corner, and that it's okay to want to play by yourself sometimes, and that it's good to respect others' boundaries, and also okay to set boundaries for yourself.  In a community toy situation where no one owns the toys I think it's okay for kids to want to play by themselves with a thing.

If DD wanders over to an older kid who clutches a toy to his chest, I'll tell her, "Hey look, he's holding his toy close.  That means he probably wants to play alone.  That's okay.  Let's go look for something else.  Wow, look at those dinosaurs!"  And she's pretty good about following that lead.    I feel uncomfortable when, as we are moving away to look for something else, the parent will sort of take the toy out of their kid's hand (or sometimes straight wrestle it out) and give it to DD.  I feel weird, but don't know what to say, so I just say, "Thank you," because I recognize that they are trying to be polite and are trying to teach their kid what they value.

DP pointed out that perhaps another parent might think I am passive-aggressively calling their kid out for not sharing (hence the wrestling, not wanting to be rude).  I have heard grown men stomp away while criticizing a five year old for "not sharing" with their kid... so yeah.  I think perhaps a better response from me would be, "That's really kind of you, but DD is learning about being flexible/respecting boundairies/etc, and we're going to go look at the dinos.  Maybe we'll come back later."

DD's hasn't snatched something from another kid yet.  I think that would be a different situation, probably requiring a swifter action.  It's more that she is playing by herself and another kid wanders over and I feel like I need to make her hand over the toy in a manner similar to what I have described above.  I am fine with her handing the toy over, but I hate feeling like it has to happen "quickly" so that we can't take the time to have give it up willingly.  It is clearly my own issue that I feel that pressure, and I'm just going to slow down.

My DP also thought I was overthinking this, until we went out to the children's museum and saw a kid the same age as DD get yelled at for not getting out of DD's way.  He wasn't even really in her way, and she's more than capable of walking around.  Then I thought, "Am I supposed to be yelling at her to get out of people's way?" (I usually pick her up if she's really in the way; I'm not saying I'd let old people trip over her....)

Mostly though, I feel like... why do we as parents feel so much pressure to make sure our kids are being "polite" that we are yelling at them... in a children's museum?  Maybe that's a topic for another post...

[kittykat2481]

I've always felt like sharing doesn't mean my child is required to give up a toy every time another child decides they want it. For as long as I can remember, I've said, "DS is having a turn right now. DS, when you're finished with that, maybe you could let so and so have a turn." 9 times out of 10 he will wait like 5 seconds and then hand the toy over, proud that he shared. If it doesn't seem like he's going to give it up soon I'll add, "Ok, you've played with that for a while. 2 more minutes and then it will be so and so's turn." At that point, if he still doesn't share (which would be rare, even at 18 months) it would be fair to take the toy away. At 18 months I would try to switch it out for something else, but obviously they won't always fall for that trick. :)

Now, if my son took a toy that another child was already playing with, obviously I'd make him give it back even if he didn't want to. I might say something like, "So and so is playing with that right now. Maybe when she is finished she will share it with you." Once he was old enough, I would encourage him to ask the other child if they would share it when they finished. With any luck, the other child's parent will hear the conversation and encourage their child to share. If none of that worked, we'd just find something else to play with. I think it's important to learn, even at a young age, that we don't always get what we want, but that if we use our manners we can usually work something out.

[bcblondie]

Personally I wouldn't avoid social situations. I'd engage in them more! Have friends over that will be understanding of your child's learning process. I tell strangers that all the time "He's in the process of learning how to share"

Sometimes DS will take someone's toy. And I say to DS.(2) "look, your friend is sad that you took the toy he was playing with. Can you give it back?" And more and more often, he does. The first time he did it I was shocked lol. I mean, he doesnt' have siblings to practice on.

Sometimes he doesn't give it back and then I do take and it say something like "He was playing with this right now, so let's go find osmething else to play with"

May not be perfect but it's what I got. lol.

[ElliesMomma]

nm

Edited by ElliesMomma - 5/28/11 at 11:32pm

[cyclamen]

Originally Posted by ElliesMomma 
i don't know if that helps you at all or not. but just my experience. i do think a 1.5 year old is capable of quite a bit of "maturity" if given the chance, and i'm all in favor of giving them the chance to do the right thing.

Thanks for posting your experience.  It sounds like you have a pretty reasonable way of approaching the situation (re: keys or other such things that need to be done).  I like the idea that I should give DD the chance to do the right thing before assuming I'll need to jump in and make her do it.  Just like anything else DD is learning to do, in most cases she can learn best by doing it, not by me doing it for her.

[mommybaker]

Kids at this age have huge ownership mentalities.  Something in their hand is theirs.  It is important to acknowledge that and ask them to give the toy.  If they refuse, give them a time limit, so that they really begin to understand what sharing is about.  It really is about an appropriate amount of time one person gets with a toy that someone else wants to play with.  It is all about baby steps.  I also model to my daughter and her friends how to ask for it and what appropriate answers would be. It may take years, but eventually somethings got to give!