when and how did you know your child was RAD? :)

[tiffani]

We have had our two cuties home for a few months now, our dd is 18 mos and ds is about 3.75 years.  We happily co-sleep, lots and lots and lots of affection, no outward signs of hostility, hoarding, sexual aggression (though he likes to come up behind me and stick his face in my buttcrack... that is not my idea of good bonding, but hey, I'm no expert. ) or anything else that concerns me with either his dad and I or his siblings.  I think he was with his mama for his first 4-7 months (or someone who was taking reasonably good care of him, is how it appears) before he was abandoned, and they are really loving at the babies home he came from.  all the kids seem to do well being adopted from there.

Ds likes to have me around, but is relatively ok with me leaving him with dad -- as soon as I come home, though, he really wants my jacket and shoes off, to make sure I'm not going anywhere else -- I don't leave without saying goodbye. 18 month old dd doesn't seem bothered if I leave her with dad, but she's happy when I return. haven't left them with anyone else yet... I don't suspect any attachment issues at all -- the only problems we have are normal testing behavior for their age range, as well as some typical orphanage aggression -- half-hearted hitting, spitting, biting, but kind of in a "this is what you do when someone makes you mad" way, not "I'm blindly raging" so I'm not worried about that too much... I am wondering, though, how one can know, at this age, if you're out of the woods with attachment issues -- obviously we have years of attachment to develop and maintain, but what are the signs that a child definitely doesn't have RAD at this age? or is it a spectrum, or can you sometimes not tell until they are older, or have been with you longer? to the point: can I let my guard down yet?

[RedOakMomma]

You've only been home a couple months, right? :)

I think you need to allow for a honeymoon period before making any long-term assessments of how you think things are going to go, for better or worse.  Things could go very well for the first six months or more before you have a more concrete idea of what you're dealing with behavior-wise.

I know what you mean, though.  I wanted to KNOW, too. *hugs*

Check over the Symptoms lists at this website now and then: http://a4everfamily.org/index.php   That's what really helped me see how well dd (and we) were doing.  Maybe check in with that site every couple of months, and see if things are stabilizing or if things are getting worrisome.

[AllyRae]

Our little girl (4 years old in a couple days, adopted from Vietnam as an infant) was diagnosed with RAD at just over 2 years old.  Looking bakc on the first year home, it was pretty obvious though, although we were giving her time to adjust.  Here were some of the early signs:

She screamed for 20 hours every single day for the first couple months (I am not joking about this...she screamed every waking moment, until her throat was raw, and then would pass out from exhaustion and sleep a couple hours).  Nothing would comfort her...it went *way* beyond normal grieving. 

She never responded to noises or her name or anything--in fact, she had to have 4 ABR hearing tests during the first 2 years because they thought she was deaf. 

She wanted nothing to do with us during the first 2 1/2-3 years.  Nothing.  Didn't care if we came in the room, didn't want any hugs or kisses from us, didn't want to be held (she'd do this thing where she'd ask to sit in our lap, and then refuse to be face to face--she had to turn her back to us and sit facing outward, and then in a couple seconds she'd get down.  Lather, rinse, repeat 200 times a day). 

Everything would have to be under her control...if someone else had any control at all, she'd melt down (even a "wait for just a second while I finish up and then I'll get you that" would lead to a 4 hour extremely violent rage). 

She did not speak consistently until 3 years of age, and even now at 4, she won't talk to you unless she trusts you.  She did not offer hugs or kisses until just a couple months ago.

She was way more violent and less tolerant of me...most RAD kids will act out to their moms more than their dads.

She would go into a panic if she couldn't see us...while she wouldn't look up if we entered a room, if we left a room, she was turn pale and instantly go into a trance-like scream and start shaking.  This would happen even if I was on the other side of a clear glass shower door.

She was very violent--a lot of biting, overthrowing children's sized furniture, and once she hit me with a baseball bat when I didn't give her something she wanted.  She also targeted children outside of the family that were younger than her (one example is that there is a child that was in the therapist's waiting room--a sibling of another of the therapist's clients, and DD would always go up to the kid and knock him down and hit him.  Every.single.time.  It got to the point where we had to bring DH with me so that we could keep her in a separate room if need be.  She doesn't do that anymore, thank goodness!)

Keep in mind, she is not even 4 years old yet.  Her behaviors were so severe that early intervention wouldn't take the case because they knew they couldn't help her....they had never seen that level of RAD in a toddler.  She came home from Vietnam with burns in her vocal cords (probably was fed boiling water in the orphanage. :( ) and had to be hospitalized in Vietnam for multiple days due to severe dehydration where the doctors said had we not gotten her into a hospital then, she would have died (this was even before we had legal custody...she was very ill when we met her and we took her out of the orphanage on USCIS approved medical passes).

Now, the good news is that at almost 4, she has made *huge* progress.  We found a therapist willing to work with her, and she's done a lot of hard work at his office, and at home.  Now, for the most part, she is pretty typical, sans a few issues (selective mutism, a lot of social anxiety, obsessiveness with food/sneaking food/stealing food, constantly "checking" to make sure she knows where every member of her family is at any given time, and some moderate tantrums when she perceives others as having some control over her/something she wants).  She is on the verge of losing her RAD diagnosis and having it downgraded a lot to just "moderate anxiety issues".  She has forged a strong, albiet slightly insecure, attachment with us and is working on forming attachments to peers.  She attends a homeschool co-op, gymnastics class, and martial arts classes with very little problems at all.  In all respects, she can function as a near-typical preschooler and we don't really have any concerns for long term ramifications of her RAD.  But it was really really really hard work, and for awhile, her prognosis was not good...even a year ago, her therapist said her prognosis for typical functioning and attachment was "grim" and this year upgraded her prognosis to "very good".

Hopefully that helps some...

[Diane B]

We're on the other end of the spectrum from the previous poster - some attachment issues, and we needed some modest amount of outside intervention/assistance.  These didn't start getting problematic until our daughter was about 3 years old.  In my opinion, attachment is a process, not a fixed state that a child achieves.  My daughter has certain vulnerabilities because of her past experiences, and those aren't going to disappear; they will continue to manifest in various ways as she moves through different developmental stages.  I would guess that is the case, to a greater or lesser degree, for virtually all adopted children. 

[RedOakMomma]

 My daughter has certain vulnerabilities because of her past experiences, and those aren't going to disappear; they will continue to manifest in various ways as she moves through different developmental stages.

That's a great way of thinking of it, Diane.  Thank you.  I'd never really processed it that way before, but from our experience it seems spot-on.

[tiffani]

oh AllyRae, what a journey you've been on!! glad to hear her prognosis is good, and thank you so much for sharing...

Diane, I agree completely, attachment is a life long journey for all of us, and adopted kids simply have larger hurdles in their path. and ROM, I hadn't really thought that a 3.5 year old would "honeymoon" much beyond the initial days of getting comfortable. I suppose though, that some kids can't really let their guard down for a good long while. I had always thought of that phenomenon as being more calculated and deliberate in older kids, but I suppose younger kids would "honeymoon" out of sheer survival instinct. I *think* the kids are both lettin' it all hang out... they seem to be anyway. :)

I don't see any of the traits previously mentioned in the kids, though Zachary does ask me a thousand times a day where everyone is and where all the motorcars are (mine, dad's, and his toy car) but his overall "behavior issues" are steadily getting better. Thanks for the link, ROM, I'll check that out -- we've had one of those days that started with a lengthy to-do list that only got longer and more and more interrupted as the day went on... :)

I have hesitated to even ask this question, because I don't want it to sound to RAD parents like I'm asking "how can I make sure MY kids are not like YOUR kids" but it's good to know how to check in and see where things are periodically, and who better to ask than folks who've dealt with attachment issues? I appreciate the honesty. :)

[AllyRae]

Originally Posted by tiffani 

I have hesitated to even ask this question, because I don't want it to sound to RAD parents like I'm asking "how can I make sure MY kids are not like YOUR kids" but it's good to know how to check in and see where things are periodically, and who better to ask than folks who've dealt with attachment issues? I appreciate the honesty. :)

LOL, I had to chuckle at that.  I didn't take it that way at  all.  I think it's really good that you're asking--too many adoptive parents don't think that it's a possibility because "my kids were babies when I adopted them" or "they had good care since I adopted her!" or whatever.  My daughter was 4 months old when I adopted her...and we always did AP with her.  She still ended up with RAD.  Some kids are far more sensitive to the losses and traumas they face, and you can get RAD in a child adopted even at birth.  So, I think it's fantastic that you're learning all you can because once RAD does develop, early intervention can be a huge huge huge benefit.

[pumpkingirl71]

We knew our daughter had problems with attachment from the beginning.  Getting help was hard.  I suggest reading the Daniel Hughes book if you are worried.  One problem is that RAD is a severe problem, but attachment really is a spectrum.  There would have been help my daughter had a full RAD diagnosis, but professionals are hesitant to give that out.  I am often shocked by how hard life is for a family and a child with "mild to moderate attachment disorder." 

Another thing that was very hard for me was that my daughter is very manipulative.  A lot of AP parenting backfires with a manipulative child.  What my child needs is very strict boundaries.

Good luck : )

.

[AllyRae]

I definitely agree with the strict boundaries thing.  It's painful how strict we have to be with DD, but if you give her even a little tiny bit of ambiguity, it's a surefire way to ensure that bad things happen.  Even at 3, she could pit one parent against another and she could use "I love you" and other signs of affection as ways to manipulate things.  I know it sounds absolutely horrible to read something like that out of a preschooler, but it is astonishing to have lived that...a child...a TODDLER...having the state of mind to manipulate things.  But really, what choice did she have?  Everyone in her life, before us, left her, hurt her, didn't meet her needs.  The people who didn't leave her (us) took her away from everything she knew, and were there during painful medical testing.  She had to be strong, even as a baby, to survive that.  She's still constantly on guard--she's afraid of being left behind, she's afraid of not getting enough to eat, she's afraid of people who she loves not coming back.  So she guards herself against that.  Right now, her dad's stuck in an airport in DC--he was supposed to be home yesterday but because of a blizzard, his flight has been cancelled twice.  She's really guarding her heart, shutting down, and pretending like she doesn't even care. But you can tell from her face that she does.  She's able to control everything about herself far better than you'd expect a 4 year old to do...she can do it with speech too, hence her selective mutism diagnosis...

I will say that even as a severe case, it was hard to find help.  There is noone here that works with young children with RAD.  We called everyone....either they only worked with older children, or they used contriversial techniques that the APA condemns (and I won't try them. They are really that bad).  Even early intervention wouldn't take the case.  The only person we got to help us was DS's autism therapist, because he saw that we were struggling and took on our daughter as his only non-autism case.  At one point, we were ready to have me move out of state with DD to get her treatment in another state that had more resources.  And if you can't get help for a toddler with RAD in Columbus, Ohio, that's not a good sign...  Even the attachment center owned by a famous attachment author was no help--hugely expensive, didn't take insurance, used contriversial techniques, didn't want to work with someone as young as DD, and the owner got really really cocky and arrogant with me when I questioned why we couldn't get a return call after 2 weeks of trying to get ahold of someone there.  I never ever recommend that place.  But, that's the extent of what there is here....  RAD is hugely misunderstood and people just don't want to try to deal with it in a way that helps the family stay together (there are places that are residential care in nature or promote therapeutic foster care, neither of which we wanted to do)

[Diane B]

AllyRae, you are an inspiration.  I second the difficulty in finding appropriate help for very young children dealing with these serious issues.  Everyone wanted to tell us what great parents we were (well yes, but conventional "good parenting" techniques don't work in these situations!) or to write her difficulties off to typical developmental challenges.  (I'm sorry, but three and a half year olds demolishing their rooms, physically attacking their mothers and having four-six hours of tantrums per day is not developmentally typical.)  Or disbelief that a child so young, adopted as an infant (5.5 months) could have any attachment problems at all.  And we felt ioslated and crazy sometimes, since everyone else found our child completely lovely and delightful (which she was and is, but you know what I mean.)  We live in a progressive, major metro area with the highest rate of transracial, intercountry adoption in the US and we still struggled to find help.  We ended up working with a child therapist who has limited experience with adoption, but just connected perfectly with our daughter in terms of style and approach.  The "attachment" expert we saw first was fun for my daughter, but had limited positive impact on her behaviors outside of the therapy room.

But to the OP and to those reading along, don't be scared, just be aware of potential problems so that you can address them as soon as possible.  Our daughter has shown amazing courage and resilience and that's a beautiful thing to see.  I'm so proud of her.

[RedOakMomma]

You ladies are amazing.  I've found that attachment difficulties stretch my patience to its absolute limit...I cannot imagine what reserves of patience and love you must use.  I know you're proud of your kids, but I hope someone is telling you that they're proud of you, too.  You deserve lots and lots of kudos.

Tiffani~ Yes, even little kids can show honeymoon periods.  Grief and behaviors can worsen over time, and once they start realizing they're in a new permanent home (really realizing it and believing it, which can take a while for little kids), they can start testing your limits and your emotional stability.  The checklists of positive and warning attachment signs on that website are helpful. 

[alwayslearning66]

RAD is way more difficult than I could ever imagine since our first adopted child was hardly anywhere's near this. We did have to work hard on attachment, and still do, but my hat's off to all of you with the most severe of severe. Any of those behaviors were short lived in our house and manageable through attachment parenting.

The thing that makes me sad in all this is for those children who are being fostered. Has anyone managed to surmount that honeymoon with a foster child? Our dfs (a.4) has been with us for 9 months and although he has certainly let fly some of his inner emotions, "misbehaves" and seeks us for attention and love, I see his little self retreat back to being ever so careful whenver any of us become truly mad with him. We can say we love him even when we're angry and he even parroted that to us spontaneously over dinner to our older child (even though youre really mad, you still love me). Yet I feel this limbo land doesn't do any child any good. We won't likely know about TPR until late February, sigh, and it will likely be appealed which keeps us in limbo much longer. Can a child truly attach when being fostered?

[Emmons]

We had a therapeutic foster daughter three years ago and she was RAD.  It was not a huge deal.  Since then she had been placed home, abandoned, in and out of 5 foster placements, juvenile detention, shelters and now back with us.  She is a totally different person and the RAD is a very big problem.  She is no longer therapeutic, she is just foster.  So we have pretty much zero help now.  Good luck with the RAD or not RAD.  It may or may not show and at varying degrees.

[Smithie]

"Can a child truly attach when being fostered?"

... is the question I ask myself when I wake up in a cold sweat at 3 a.m. 

[Polliwog]

Both of my children are adopted from foster care and they are fully attached. As are my son's older and younger sisters (adopted by different families.)

[alwayslearning66]

Good! I meant can they attach WHILE in fostering phase. The adoption phase, if it ever comes, is very far off.

[Polliwog]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning66 

Good! I meant can they attach WHILE in fostering phase. The adoption phase, if it ever comes, is very far off.

And my response is still the same. Both of my children attached to me while they were still my foster children. With DS it happened quickly. With DD it took longer (and me going away for a weekend foster/adoptive parent conference) but she's been fully attached for quite a while now.