Baby Whisperer...

[poorlittlefish]

My DD is 7 months old and wakes every 1-1.5 hours to nurse.  This has been going on for 2 months now and I am in the obsessed with sleep stage--googling everything on how to make my baby sleep more, buying books etc.  I have tried the NCSS to no avail.  I know that the Baby Whisperer has horrible breastfeeding advice but other than that, what is everyone's thoughts on this book?

[sosurreal09]

Well ok here me out. I started out doing the BW when DD was born. I tried to do it for like 3 months. It was hell on earth. She def did not know "oh mommy is here b/c she's patting my back" and it ruled our lives and did absolutely nothing.

She never "learned" to sleep and didn't do a schedule right ect.

I completely regret ever doing it and will never do it again.

Your DD is obvs much older. Well the BW advice for her age would be PUPD (pick up, put down) we DID try this before when she was about that age. Well it was worse than anything I have ever done to my child. I did it 3 days, for 2hrs at a time every time. They kept telling me don't give up it will click ect ect.

I stopped trying b/c she was clinging to me for dear life ALL-DAY-LONG and every time I put her down during the day she became hysterical!

I tried this b/c she too was a frequent night nurser and I was very sleep deprived. She was a every 45min baby...at night.

So my advice? Do not touch BW with a 10ft pole! It was my biggest parenting mistake to this day. It is def not a "no CIO" approach. It really is just glorified CIO.

I am now completely against "sleep training" and know that as time goes by things get better. DD is 15 m/o and still not STTN, but she can go like 3-7hrs without milk at night now.

I have a friend who did PU/PD and her baby was 9 m/o. She's 18 m/o now and still not STTN. So I think it really depends on the child...

HTH

[t2009]

I remember being in the same boat... Reading everything I could find when DS was around that age. I was actually very skeptical about any advice in Baby Whisperer because of just what you pointed out ... She's crazy wrong about breastfeeding. I feel that someone with such a lack of understanding about the a child's needs in one area should be taken with a BIG grain of salt on everything else she says. That's just my opinion.

BUT, on some level, I think the main thing she advocates for sleeping (the pick-up-put-down thing) is not far off from some techniques in NCSS, just a little more extreme. When DS was ready, we did a very gentle no-cry version of the pick-up-put-down, with a couple of other techniques from NCSS.

My advice (purely based on my own experience, so take IT with a grain of salt!) is that your DD may still be a bit young for even "gentle" forms of "sleep training". I'd get a really good routine down, make sure that there is minimal light/noise during the night, and every once in a while try out a new trick or two (rubbing her back, doing the pull-off, etc). I think you'll know when she's receptive. For me, DS would protest a little, but never cry & for me when he got to that stage I was pretty confident that we could continue to try to get him to fall asleep on his own. That didn't happen until about 11 mos. though. Before then, if I'd try a new method to get him to sleep he'd get upset & I'd go back to just nursing him down. 

And the thing I ultimately learned is that at some point you have to put all the books down & just figure out what's going to work best for you & your LO. Sometimes what works will be something you read about, but sometimes it'll just be something you figure out on your own. And then it'll change... It's just a huge experiment. But it does go by (relatively) quickly.

Good luck!

[t2009]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09 

So my advice? Do not touch BW with a 10ft pole! It was my biggest parenting mistake to this day. It is def not a "no CIO" approach. It really is just glorified CIO.

I am now completely against "sleep training" and know that as time goes by things get better. DD is 15 m/o and still not STTN, but she can go like 3-7hrs without milk at night now.

I have a friend who did PU/PD and her baby was 9 m/o. She's 18 m/o now and still not STTN. So I think it really depends on the child...

HTH

Yeah, sosurreal's post reminded me that it really is glorified CIO. In my post I think I may have suggested that it's not as bad as PP says, but I think PP is right. I read BW quickly & because I didn't like it I returned it to the library right away. So I definitely as NOT doing BW with my son. I wouldn't do anything from her book directly. BUT if you feel like at some point in the future your DD would react well with just a hug and then a pat on the back or belly or whatever, go for it. But if she doesn't react well, I would toss it out.

[JuliMummy]

Originally Posted by t2009 

And the thing I ultimately learned is that at some point you have to put all the books down & just figure out what's going to work best for you & your LO. Sometimes what works will be something you read about, but sometimes it'll just be something you figure out on your own. And then it'll change... It's just a huge experiment. But it does go by (relatively) quickly.

Very wise, t2009!

Poorlittlefish, I know it's really horrible, but you may just have to keep doing what you're doing until she's a bit older when you can start to gently push her towards sleeping longer stretches. 

[poorlittlefish]

Thanks guys.  I guess I know these things from my older DD (who still doesn't sleep thru but at least only wakes up once :) ) 

Time is the only thing.

I am co-sleeping with this one and I just question myself wondering if she was in her crib more, would she be sleeping through?  She starts her night there but wakes up every 45mins until she is with me.  I don't mind co-sleeping but I really don't want to do it forever and worry that I am creating a bad sleeper. 

Time...time....

[sosurreal09]

Originally Posted by poorlittlefish 

Thanks guys.  I guess I know these things from my older DD (who still doesn't sleep thru but at least only wakes up once :) ) 

Time is the only thing.

I am co-sleeping with this one and I just question myself wondering if she was in her crib more, would she be sleeping through?  She starts her night there but wakes up every 45mins until she is with me.  I don't mind co-sleeping but I really don't want to do it forever and worry that I am creating a bad sleeper. 

Time...time....

My DD didn't really co-sleep with us until she was 7 m/o! I kept telling myself it was best to keep putting her in the crib (in our room) Anyways she still woke up quite frequently and I finally gave in. She's still not a great sleeper, but I am getting more sleep.

Every child is different.

[asraidevin]

You are not creating a bad sleeper. My daughter was a terrible  sleeper as a baby (my son is worse somehow). I nursed her to sleep, them rocked, then layed with her in bed until she was at least 5. She's 8 now. She only comes to my bed when she's cold. On weekends she tells us she's ready for bed. And she goes to bed without getting up 6 times with the usual kid tricks ie bathroom, drink etc.

[D_McG]

Around that age I stopped nursing DD every time she woke.  If she woke up like 45 minutes after she fell asleep, I sent DH into her.  I sometimes work at night so they had to get used to it.  It really helped with her nightwaking to know that a boob wasn't available on demand 24/7.  It just couldn't be b/c I wasn't always there.

[Spring Lily]

Originally Posted by poorlittlefish 

Thanks guys.  I guess I know these things from my older DD (who still doesn't sleep thru but at least only wakes up once :) ) 

Time is the only thing.

I am co-sleeping with this one and I just question myself wondering if she was in her crib more, would she be sleeping through?  She starts her night there but wakes up every 45mins until she is with me.  I don't mind co-sleeping but I really don't want to do it forever and worry that I am creating a bad sleeper. 

Time...time....

First of all, don't judge yourself based on your child's sleep. You're not creating a bad sleeper. What it sounds like is you do try to have her in the crib, but she is waking frequently because she needs to be with you. If that is what she needs, then you're being a responsive parent, not creating "bad habits" like so many sleep books say.

And cosleeping now doesn't mean you'll be doing it forever. What she'll be like in 6 months or a year is very different than how she is right now. Try not to get too far ahead of yourself. If in the future you hit the point you're no longer interested in cosleeping all or part of the night, then you can reassess. But she'll be different then, too.

Is your DD getting enough nursing during the day? She's at that age where she's probably playing more and getting more mobile--sometimes they eat less so they can play and then try to make up for it at night. I'd offer her more opportunities to nurse during the day and try to extend the feeds a few extra minutes. Do you give her a dream feed before you go to bed? That can help prolong her sleep a little, too.

[porcelina]

I just wanted to add in case anyone else is looking for info on BW that I also tried this with DS1 around that same age. It was also a complete disaster!! I did the pick up put down thing one night -- just one -- and he was so altered the next day I wanted to pick up the book and throw it out the window (it was a library loaner so I refrained)! He wouldn't even look me in the eye the next morning. What a disaster. I don't think it makes any sense at all that they will learn to stop crying if you keep putting them back down as soon as they stop. Makes more sense they'd be clingy! 

She also suggests the shush-pat method to put a younger baby (but older than 3 months) to sleep. This I did find helpful. If they are in the mood for sleep, it sometimes can give them the reassurance they need to get there. I also learned about the sleep matra-cry that babies do from her book, and recognize it immediately now in DS2. This just means that they're about to fall asleep, which is somewhat reassuring. :)

[laurabfig]

Thanks for starting this thread...I came in this forum b/c I just read BW and am feeling guilty for sleeping with him now, for nursing him in the middle of the night, for holding him or nursing him to put him to sleep.  And it makes me sad. :(   So I'm trying to ignore most of what I read in her book...esp. re co-sleeping, breastfeeding, weaning, etc.  It was helpful to read that others have tried her methods without success....she just makes it sound like do a, b, c and you'll have a perfect sleeper.  I think all kids are different and a single method can't work for all kids.  Also, this is my third child, and I've noticed that he HAS to sleep in noisy environments, when we're out and about, in the carseat, in the sling, b/c I am not centering our entire schedule as a family around his naps.  My sister made a great point tonight when I was talking about BW with her and she said, "All those books seem to be written for stay-at-home first-time moms who can schedule their whole day around keeping the baby's routine."  

Also- lately I've noticed many occasions where I was GLAD that we've taught DS to fall asleep in our arms or in the sling...we took him to a Joel Salatin talk the other night in an auditorium with 750 people and he didn't make a peep to fall asleep in the sling!  With the BW methods, I wonder if the crib itself becomes the "prop" in some way....

Off to bed now...ds is already asleep by my pillow.  hee hee. :)

[laurabfig]

Sorry OP... I sort of took over the thread and didn't reply to your original question-

The BW is big on ROUTINE- eat, awake, sleep, you time (EASY...but it is anything but, IMO)  in my experience, the routine is hard to keep with the youngest kid in a 3-kid family.  sometimes he needs to eat earlier or later b/c of our family schedule.

i do like that she says a baby shouldn't cry alone, and that we need to tune into what our babies need (ie- don't feed them if they are really tired)...other than that, alot of her advice is very not-AP friendly.  she advocates routine from day one, and i think most moms just need to relax and not worry about routine those first few weeks.  

anyway, for your dd, she also says that 7-9 months (i think this is the window) is a really hard time for sleep training b/c of the developmental stage of seperation anxiety that occurs at this time.

i have to say- i just skimmed the books she's written.  glad i checked them out from the library instead of buying.  honestly, i wouldn't recommend them.

[poorlittlefish]

Thanks again for all these great responses.

Spring Lily, I really thought about your response last night-how my DD NEEDS to sleep with me and that really rung true with me.

Thank you all for reaffirming what I am doing, I know that longer stretches will come if I am patient.