Strap height or shell height FF

[sunnygir1]

Hello,

I think I was told here that a kid can stay in a ff carseat until her ears reach the top of the shell.  But I have heard/read that the shoulder strap slots should be at or above the shoulder.  So, as dd grows, if her shoulders are higher than the top slot she is still safe in that seat as long as her ears are below the top of the shell?

She is almost 4, and I am hoping to try her in a hbb soon, but I'm not quite ready yet.

TIA

[tankgirl73]

I'm not sure about "ears", I thought it was top of the head, but it could very well depend on the individual seat, some could have different guidelines.  The straps should definitely be "at or above" shoulder level.  I think it would be rare for a child to outgrow the seat by shoulder height, though, before outgrowing it by 'head height' -- it would be a pretty poorly designed seat IMO if that happened frequently.  ;)  You should check the user manual for your seat, it SHOULD clarify what the particular guidelines are for it.  But in general, once they outgrow the seat by *one* of the parameters, then it's outgrown, even if they're still within limits for other parameters (eg, they're usually outgrown by height long before weight).

If she's only almost 4, you really should still keep her in the car seat for as long as you can.  My daughter is just over 4 and we have NO plans to move to a booster anytime soon, as much as it would make getting in and out of the car in the winter easier.  ;)  She's a good 42" tall at least and 37lbs, so it's not like she's tiny... We have only JUST moved to the highest slots for the straps in her Radian (had to go to the highest in the TrueFit, in our other car, awhile ago).  The TrueFit goes to 65 lbs, and the Radian we have is approved to 50-something (it should be 65 but silly Canadian standards when it was introduced into the country, blah blah blah).  It's better to keep them in the 5-point harness as long as you possibly can -- until they outgrow it by strap, or by height, or by weight.

The bare minimum for a booster seat is 40lbs -- at least that's the law here.  My daughter isn't even there yet.  :)  And just like turning an infant to FF -- 20lbs and 1 year is the *legal minimum*, not at all the safe time to do it -- same is true for booster.  Some car seats only go to 45 pounds FF, and if yours is one of those then you have the option of spending $$$ for a different one that goes to 65 (which might not be a bad investment, though, if you have younger kids on the way up as well) or going to a booster after that.  But in any case, *do* completely run out the maximums in your seat, whatever those maximums may be.  Don't be in a rush to get to a booster.  I think you said it well -- YOU are not ready to put her in a HBB yet ;) so trust yourself.  :)

When my son was little, a decade ago, I bought the only booster that said "30 pounds and up".  He was 3, he was tall, he was skinny.  I would certainly do it differently if I knew then what I know now!  (And obviously the laws have changed since then as well!)

[Llyra]

I'm not sure about "ears", I thought it was top of the head, but it could very well depend on the individual seat, some could have different guidelines.

The top of the head is for rear-facing-- for rear facing, you need an inch of hard shell above the head. The usual rule of thumb for forward-facing is either tops of the ears at the top of the shell, or the top-most strap slot below the shoulders. It's whichever comes first though, for most seats. Check your manual, though-- it varies by seat.

My DD1 did ride in a highback booster at 4, and I was comfortable with it. But not until 4 1/2, and she was first of all very big for her age, and second of all able to sit correctly in the booster all of the time, largely because she has a mighty anxiety problem, and once I tell her something is dangerous, she's almost rigid about following my instructions. My other two are about to turn four now, and there's no way they're ready for a booster.

If you feel like you'd like to keep her harnessed longer, there are forward-facing seats that convert to boosters later. Not all of them make good boosters, though, I know that-- some are less safe because of the style of seat. But I'm sure people on here would suggest safe choices-- the Nautilus is the only one I know about.

[sunnygir1]

I have a Maestro, so she can be in that harnessed when she outgrows the seat she's in now.  I like this seat because it leans back a little, so is more comfortable, especially if she's sleepy.

Don't worry, I won't put her in a hbb until she can sit safely in it for the whole ride, and obviously until she reaches the legal weight limit I will keep her harnessed.  I kept her rf until she reached the rf limit on her seat.  I did not purchase a new seat for her to rf longer, but I considered it.  She actually might have been almost 3 by the time I turned her ff.  I am not in a hurry to switch her as soon as she meets the minimum.  I am educating myself and trying to make the best and safest decisions for my children.

From what I understand, rf is the safest, and ff with a seat belt is safer than harnessed (provided the child is able to sit correctly in the seat all the time.

[mama2soren]

A FF seat is outgrown if ANY of these things are true:

1) the child is over the FF weight limit

2) the top of the child's ears are at the top of the shell of the car seat

3) the shoulders are above the highest harness slot

If her shoulders are above the harness, she has outgrown the seat, even if she has enough shell over her head.  She is no longer safe in her seat.

If you want an inexpensive option to keep her harnessed longer (many 4 year olds are not ready for full-time boostering), look into the Maestro ($80).  It has a nice tall harness and shell, and it's quite narrow, too!

[mama2soren]

From what I understand, ... ff with a seat belt is safer than harnessed (provided the child is able to sit correctly in the seat all the time.

There is no definitive info to say whether or not FF harnessing is safer/less safe than boostering.  What we know is, both are safe assuming the child fits well in the harnessed seat or the child is old enough/big enough and always sits properly in the booster.  I wouldn't feel pressured to put a 4 year old in a booster to achieve any sort of safety benefit.

[tankgirl73]

Yeah, I've never heard that a seatbelt is SAFER than harnessed, quite the opposite.  I can't honestly see why it would be, from a physics standpoint alone.  

Thanks for the correction about top of head vs top of ears though.  I expect my daughter is going to be of the tall-and-skinny ilk (her dad is 6'5" and I'm nearly 6') so we know she's going to outgrow her seats by height before weight, and will likely outgrow the TruFit before the Radian (simply because the Radian is higher).  We're a ways off from that yet, the top of her head isn't even near the top of the seat yet, but it's good to know these things ahead of time.  :)

[an_aurora]

Like the OP said, there is no evidence either way that a harnessed seat is safer than a booster for an appropriate sized child.  I wouldn't consider a booster until at least 5, but past that point, assuming the child is neurotypical, there's no data saying a harness is safer (or less safe).  There are valid hypotheses on both sides but nothing definitive.  

[Llyra]

Originally Posted by tankgirl73 

Yeah, I've never heard that a seatbelt is SAFER than harnessed, quite the opposite.  I can't honestly see why it would be, from a physics standpoint alone.  

I think the (unproven, of course) idea with this is that the harness holds the shoulders back so securely, that it's just the head that's thrown forward. The concern is about the stress on the neck and spine with this kind of head excursion. At least that was my understanding of it-- I am far from an expert. The seatbelt allows a certain amount of torso motion, which from I understand might be considered safer in some instances because of the head not being thrown forward in that way. I found it pretty compelling-- which is why I switched DD1 to the booster as soon as she was mature enough to sit correctly. This is all theoretical and unproven, though, and may depend on the type of accident, and whether we're looking at just risk of death or risk of injury. Anyway, that's what I've managed to learn on the issue; many women here are far more expert about this than I am.

[tankgirl73]

Interesting!  Thanks for the info.  Worth contemplating for sure...

[butterfly_mommy]

Sorry to hijack but I have heard the seat  belt harness debate before  so my question is if both are as  safe as the other then why do race car drivers wear a 5 point harness? Just wondering.

[BathrobeGoddess]

Originally Posted by butterfly_mommy 

Sorry to hijack but I have heard the seat  belt harness debate before  so my question is if both are as  safe as the other then why do race car drivers wear a 5 point harness? Just wondering.

They have fully formed skeletons and they also have head restraints...think Dale Earnhardt and how his head was not restrained properly causing it to snap forward.

But again, there is not any proof either way...

[DahliaRW]

Wth race car drivers their harness is attached to the steel frame of the car, not installed using latch or 3 point belt.  They also have a head tether to prevent neck loads/head excursion (which is the issue at question with harnessed  seats).  Comparing a racing harness to a 5 point harness car seat is like comparing apples and oranges.

[butterfly_mommy]

Thanks!