GD and meal times--help!

[Squrrl]

As background, my daughter is almost 3 1/2 now, we've been GD all along, and usually these days that works pretty smoothly and naturally for us.  Except!--

Food is very important to me, as is not wasting food and eating nutritious food.  My daughter's health has been a point of concern all along, and at 2 1/2 I discovered that she is gluten-intolerant as am I, so we removed gluten from the house and she gradually became very accepting of not being able to eat things even when they were available.  I am reminded of the comment in Adventures in Gentle Discipline that the truly non-negotiable things are rarely an issue--a few total breakdowns at parties and things, and now she knows quite well that she can't accept food from other kids or eat certain things until it's okay.

My attitude towards meal times has always been that this is a very important time to myself and my husband, that I cook very well and we enjoy our food, and that we always eat together, and thus set the example for Evelyn.  We did baby-led weaning, and she really didn't start eating much 'til she was nearly 9 months old.  I don't cook her anything separate, nor do I tailor meals all that much to her preferences, but we're always happy to pick pieces out of the soup, say, or let her eat what she wants and leave the rest.  I had hoped that this positive attitude towards food and family mealtimes would be enough, but clearly for this child it isn't. 

Two people in this world are not delighted to eat my cooking: my mother-in-law and my child.   Evelyn almost never sits at the table with us for more than a couple of minutes, if that.  Often, she doesn't come at all.  She almost never eats ANY of what is offered, unless there is a plain chunk of meat with no sauce, which she will eat huge amounts of.  When we gently suggest that she join us--never more than that--her reactions range from ignoring us to screaming at us and having a meltdown.  We have never forced her to sit at the table or forced her to eat something against her will.  She will snack on healthy things quite happily--carrot sticks, apples, dried fruit, cheese, etc.--but would still prefer to fill up on relatively non-nutritive things like crackers and dry cereal if there are any in the house at all, and I begin to feel that we cannot have any "treats" around at all because she hounds me mercilessly for them until they are gone and I feel gross that she ate all that candy or cereal or whatever.  Oh, and she won't eat peanut butter or anything with sauce or dip anything into anything--if it's messy, she won't touch it.  Which includes the bulk of prepared foods.  And she's absolutely compulsive about wiping her face, whether it's food or snot or tears.  Sensory issues?  I don't know.

I was TRYING not to create food taboos or forbidden fruit, and to foster a broadly positive attitude towards food in general and balance in the diet, but that really doesn't seem to be working.  My approach is obviously a bust.  I don't know what else to say.  I don't feel that she is eating healthily, which is quite a feat considering almost everything we buy is nutritious whole foods--she just won't EAT any of it.  I also don't feel that she's gaining any interest whatsoever in the family dinner.  I don't seem to have any ideas, so I turn to you smart ladies.  What do you do in your house?  Have you overcome similar issues?  Help me!

[oaktreemama]

 Oh, and she won't eat peanut butter or anything with sauce or dip anything into anything--if it's messy, she won't touch it.  Which includes the bulk of prepared foods.  And she's absolutely compulsive about wiping her face, whether it's food or snot or tears.  Sensory issues?  I don't know.

My son is also very particular about his hands and face. Getting things on his hands, his nose running, if his shirt gets wet-really bug him. He is perfectly normal though-it isn't an obsession KWIM? It just bugs him so we don't worry about it.

We also do sit down dinner every night. Like you, it is very important to me. We follow a very low carb diet as my husband is pre-diabetic so I cook meals from scratch every night. And, we both work FT and my son is in daycare so our evenings together are important. We do not allow roaming while eating either-if you are eating you are sitting at the table. That has helped make our table the defacto place to eat and cut down on those battles.

In your shoes that is where I would start. Make the table and her chair the place to eat and see if that improves your dinner time scenario.

I do not cook separate meals for my son. I will make some accommodations in regards to sauces on food. And I will serve him something on his plate I know he loves-avocado, apple with pb, crackers and cheese, etc. That said, every night he gets a little bit of everything we are having and is free to eat it or ignore it as he sees fit. And I have noticed that each week he tries more and more things. I offered him mashed potatoes (before we went low carb) probably 15 times before he ate them.

Keep offering her your regular meals in very small portions (like a Tbsp of each thing). My son does better when his plate looks clean and organized-one small scoop of three things. He can always have more but does a lot better without a heaping full plate. Then say no more. We never encourage one more bite or just try it you'll like it kind of things. We simply eat our dinners and talk about our day. I figure if we just keep modeling healthy and polite table manners, he will continue to learn healthy and polite table manners.

I read Ellen Satter's books and they really clarified how I feel about food and how I feed my son.

[springmum]

I have a very picky eater, DS almost 3, but he's a little different than your DD.

One thing that I know is a factor for us, is making sure he's VERY hungry at dinnertime (not like starving hungry) If he has an afternoon snack I make sure dinner is at least 3 hours after, otherwise he'll just pick at it. We also do something physical before dinner to help him feel hungry enough to eat. I don't make separate dinners either, BUT I always make sure to include something I know he'll eat with some things that he's not that crazy about. The combo seems to work well in getting him to try something new and enjoy the food he likes.

I keep it simple too. DS is sensitive to some textures lately for some reason, so I don't put things on his plate that will make him gag. His taste for certain spices is changing now too, so I will sometime leave something "plain" for him while I season the rest. I figure as an adult I'm allowed to choose what tastes I like and don't, so I'll still offer him some (in case his tastes change) but balance that with what he likes.

During dinner there is no pressure, bribes etc. Though I do say sometimes "just try it before you tell me if you don't like it". For some reason if I tell DS a story it seems to distract him a little and he'll eat while I tell it. 

Just some things we do, don't know if it will be helpful or not. Hopefully it's just a stage and she's back to eating dinner soon :)

[kiwiva]

The picky eating drives me insane. I try not to make a separate meal, but sometimes I do bc I just cannot keep eating within DD's range of foods. I think it is typical for them to be perfectly happy filling up on non-nutritive crap. And some days I just let it happen because I just don't have the patience to do otherwise. I try to have most of that food be decent at least, I try to make the bread, for ex. DD also won't dip anything, but it's not sensory with her, I don't think. She just takes after her dad who doesn't like yogurt, dips, mayo, etc. DD eats no meat of any kind (she has never been interested), a handful of veggies (which is so boring bc I can only eat so much broccoli and cauliflower) a few fruits (used to be more) and cheese, eggs, and carbs (pasta, bread, rice, etc). Really some days I think she's only had different bread/cheese combinations all day! When she stopped eating eggs for a few weeks, I thought I would lose my mind. She just doesn't eat enough different foods to drop any.

So my approach has always been to offer what we are eating, but I've never forced her to try. I wish we had started that when she was little, but I guess she did try initially and then it wasn't worth the crazy fit once she got a little older, so not sure how I could have done differently. We try to model eating lots of good healthy foods. I don't make mealtime a battle ground, though if she wants treat foods (sweets, desserts) she needs to eat healthy food. I try to not convey that in a eat this to get to eat that way, since I definitely don't like that message! I try to educate her on good foods. While I am doing that, whenever possible I sneak healthy things into what she is eating.

But I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel!! DD is 4 and a few months. She is now starting to try foods! It is a very recent development and very exciting for me. A few months ago, after I had offered her beets about a hundred times, she wanted some, and liked them immediately. At Christmas she decided tomato soup would be a good thing to try (I talked about how great grilled cheese sandwiches were with tomato soup) and now she claims to like tomatoes (but as it's winter, we can't prove that). She decided this week that she likes cooked carrots (I know weird, the kid loves cauliflower but wouldn't eat carrots!), and though she didn't eat them, she did want me to include carrot sticks with her lunch (I think there may have been a nibble), she also tried bacon a couple weeks ago (clearly not the best meat but I will take any door to a new food group at this point), last night she tried something and didn't like it, but didn't say "Yuck" and make a big deal about it, so that's something. We talked about how sometimes you like a new food and sometimes you don't but if you never tried anything new you'd be missing out. Tonight she claims she wants to try chicken pot pie. She may only eat the crust and if that is the case, I don't care. I will take it.

So, I don't have any magical solution, clearly. But going with the flow, not pushing, modeling what I'd like her to do, offering with no pressure, seems to finally be resulting in some progress with DD. Though we don't yet have a bunch of new foods, she is talking about liking new foods and wanting to try things quite a lot now. I'm going with it. I also have just (yesterday) decided to do what Ellen Satter recommends with 3 meals, 2 snacks at set times and nothing between bc I am sick of being asked for food all the time. Though based on how much DD is eating this week, she is clearly having a growth spurt so it is challenging me starting that now.

So I do think some of it is an age thing for a lot of kids. And I know I will not win the battle over food, so I try not to go there.

[mom2grrls]

Does she have trouble sitting at the table for any meal or just dinner?  Perhaps if you let her do an activity while you eat together-maybe a small puzzle or coloring perhaps she'll sit still longer.  My youngest has never been a big dinner eater, I guess he gets enough during the day.  Also look at what she eats over the course of a week rather than day to day, she may be eating better than you realize:)

[peaceful_mama]

I have a 2 year old who is just not a big dinner eater.  Also, he seems to honestly get tired of the same foods, while his older brother is happiest with the same stuff.  (Seriously, I send sack lunches about once a week on average, and the main item this entire year has been a turkey sandwich.  I did cheese and crackers once or twice when I had no turkey in the house.  The child has eaten either ramen noodles--ugh, I know, that's DH's contribution--or toast with butter for breakfast probably 95 out of the 102 days of school this year!--there was a brief period of Rice Krispies being 'cool' because of the noise.)

Anyway, with 3 children eating at the table now, I absolutely DO NOT make separate meals, and I have not done this from the beginning.  My mom did that, and my diet was absolute crap, I literally ate NO vegetables unless you count tomato sauce for years, and little fruit.  (my parents were always 'impressed' with my kids begging for *fruit*  LOL)

The other thing is, if you don't want her eating the 'crap', you honestly may need to just not buy it.  Or buy it as a special treat in a very small amount.  Or if it's a special gluten-free cereal that only comes in a big box, keep only a small amount of it in her sight and refill the small container from a larger one kept out of her sight after bedtime.  ;) 

Basically, only keep the amount you can stand her eating that day in a place where she sees it, and when it is gone, it is gone....then you determine when there will be more.

My kids too will just want to eat the whatever till it's gone lots of times.  ;)

The other rule I use sometimes that is starting to work pretty well is this---when they come to the table and leave most/all of a plate of food--ESPECIALLY if THEY put it on the plate themselves!---that is the food they get until it is at least mostly gone.

NO, they are not forced to sit there until they eat it.  They really truly might not be hungry then.  That is fine.

BUT...when they do say they are hungry, that plate of food is what they get until somebody cooks another meal.  Not a different snack.  Not even fruit.  The point is, if they are hungry, they will eat that plate of food. 

It's not about a battle of wills.  I'm not starving my children, they get the next meal, whatever it is, at the time that it happens.  They *do* eventually get offered different food. 

The issue for me is I do not want to waste food.  I have talked with them about just taking a little bit and they can always take more.  This is about them learning to take a little, taste it, take more if they want it....not to dish up a pile of food they can't eat.  And I'm finding it to be more effective than any talking I could do about "Eat what you take"  ;

Also, I notice that when I make their plates, they seem to eat a lot better when I put a very small amount.  Like one spoon of each item, a bit more if I know it's something they love.  Split one taco-wrap between my 4 and 2 year olds.  I don't know if it's all in my head or not, but they really do seem to eat more that way than when they have a lot of food in front of them at one time.  (DH tends to do that and then complain that they don't eat, drives me crazy lol)

Also, when we have a lot of items on the table for some reason, (think thanksgiving dinner) I find it goes better if I ask and give them the option to decline some items rather than putting a small bit of everything on the plate.  Don't know why, but it does.

And things like tacos have a lot less waste if *I* do the assembly and they approve or veto the contents  ;) like yes, I want meat, no I don't want tomatoes, etc.

[peaceful_mama]

oh with candy :) i have more than one so this is easier, but what *I* do is I only buy it occasionally, and I only buy one or two "single serve" items....for example if it's a bag of M n M's I buy one.  The other day I bought 2 of the square snickers with 2 squares in each pack.  What happens is the 3 candy eaters split the bag of M n M's....or the other day all 4 of us, me included ;) got a square of the Snickers. 

they are perfectly happy with this arrangement, I feel like it is a sane amount of candy....it's gone quickly, and yet it's in their lives enough that it's not a forbidden fruit.

DH takes them on special daddy trips to the dollar store that turn into junk food runs LOL---but.....what happens is the bags of chips and the candy live mostly out of sight and mind and come out as treats.  Like DH keeps his candy stash for them where he is the only one who can reach it and doles out treats when he comes home...or to distract when he's leaving alone  ;)  They have gotten accustomed now to the idea that requests for chips will not be honored if meals were basically left uneaten.  I tell them that if they were not hungry 15 minutes ago for their dinner, and they do not want to eat it now, then they are obviously not really hungry and do not need chips.  ;)  It's not at all meant as a bribe, it's my honest observation of the situation.  ;)  Chips will not be a substitute for dinner.