DD issues. I don't know what to do!! Any and all opinions appreciated!! Mods please move if...

[treemom2]

My DD is 9 years old.  She is loving, kind, wants to be helpful. . .she loves doing art, sewing, finger knitting, singing.  She attended Japanese school from age 4 through 7.  Although the teachers thought she was easily distracted (and this frustrated one of her teachers), they all enjoyed having her in their classes.  They'd comment on how quickly she'd learn dances or songs for events.  During her last year in Japanese school she started finding it difficult to keep up in the reading and math so we put her in Kumon for math and got her a tutor for the reading.  The tutor had to use a timer to help keep DD on task and in Kumon she had trouble passing the tests because there was so much going on around her in the room.  So, we ended up pulling her out of Japanese school and I started homeschooling with her using Calvert.  It was slow going.  She'd forget things from day to day, like how to read or how to do math problems.  I'd get frustrated because we'd learn a word before reading a story, learn it again the first time she read it in the story, then have to learn it again on the next page.  I had a hard time keeping her on task, staring at her pencil or playing with a piece of fuzz was much more exciting.  I have to admit, I was not being the mom I wanted to be.  I started being strict, yelling, banging on the desk to get her attention.  When we moved, we heard this new school was a really good one so DH and I decided to try her in school.  Well. . .she's now in ESL, Remedial reading, Remedial math, and the teachers all recommended special education testing.  They thought she had a memory or processing disability.  They all mentioned attention problems and wanting her to be seen at the clinic for meds (we don't want meds).  DH is a special education teacher at this same school.  He does agree that DD has some attention problems, but does not want to medicate.  He also was against the testing, but I wanted it to go forward so we might have some more insight into our DD.  Well, that testing came back today.  UGH!!  According to the testing she's borderline for qualifying for sped.  She's also borderline MR.  She has memory issues, issues with language, issues with math. . .pretty much everything on the test except for auditory processing and auditory attention. . .everything else she was in like the 3rd percentile.  After looking at the test, DH would like me to bring her home and start homeschooling with her again. . .I have to admit being worried about doing this. . .I worry about my frustration level.  I'm also contemplating taking her to the clinic for possible ADD. . .but I know all they'll do is put her on meds and I really don't want her on meds (not ripping on anyone here who's child is on meds. . .). . .then again, maybe meds would be helpful. . .UGH, this is so hard.  Another worry with bring her home to homeschool is DS.  DS is gifted.  He's 6 and has already passed DD in reading and math.  I know she hates being the worst in her class at school, she hates that she can't do anything (her words for both of these) and I worry about bringing her home and her feeling bad because DS is so much ahead of her.  I really don't know what to do!!

[RedOakMomma]

No advice, but sending you some hugs.  That sounds hard.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by treemom2 

 I'm also contemplating taking her to the clinic for possible ADD. . .but I know all they'll do is put her on meds and I really don't want her on meds (not ripping on anyone here who's child is on meds. . .). . .then again, maybe meds would be helpful. . .UGH, this is so hard.  Another worry with bring her home to homeschool is DS.  DS is gifted.  He's 6 and has already passed DD in reading and math.  I know she hates being the worst in her class at school, she hates that she can't do anything (her words for both of these) and I worry about bringing her home and her feeling bad because DS is so much ahead of her.  I really don't know what to do!!

For some reason we get freaked out about medicating when the brain isn't balanced chemically in a way we don't when the issue is diabetes and insulin. My son takes medication for ADHD because his brain is lacking in particular neurotransmitters; the medication replaces something his brain doesn't manufacture enough of naturally and his teacher (who didn't know him premedication) said that he was like a different child the one day when I forgot to give it to him.

They can't put your dd on meds, they can prescribe them but it is ultimately up to you. No one "wants" their child on medication but sometimes it is what gets the best results--and you don't keep using a medication that isn't helping.

Inattentive Type ADHD

Drug Free?

Medicating for Autism spectrum disorder? - MotheringDotCommunity Community

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

First, the school should not be suggesting medication. That is not their call to make. Have you looked into alternative therapies? Also, have you made sure there aren't any underlying medical issues that are causing the inattention besides ADHD? You can get a diagnosis without resorting to meds, and sometimes getting a dx can actually make getting the services you need easier.

Now, just so you know, I am not against meds. My oldest son is on medication because he was having a hard time with attention, impulse control, and violence. His behavoirs were seriously impacting his self confidence, academic progress, and his social progress. The medication has made him so much happier and succesful (straight As)! It's made it easier for him to learn the skills he needs to succeed. It may be that one day he may not need the medication, because he's been able to learn those skills that for most people come naturally. But he may need the meds for life.

If you do go with meds, that does not mean that you can not also use alternative therapies. Diet, supplements, counciling, etc along with meds can be really helpful.

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

I also wanted to ask why your dh wants you to homeschool instead of getting services at school?

[treemom2]

Hi, thanks for all your replies :)  My DH is a special education teacher who specializes in behavioral and emotional disabilities.  He's really wonderful at his job.  We live in Belgium and he works for an International School.  78% of the students at his school are gifted or on the higher level of the bell curve. . .most of the teachers are unable or unwilling to work effectively with children who do not fall into the school "norm".  Our dd does not fall into that 78%. . .so he worries about the teachers she will and does have at this school.  Also, when my DH was young he was very much like our DD.  He was placed in special ed for reading and spent an entire year not being able to go to recess because he couldn't pass his spelling tests.  He does not want this to happen to our DD.  Right now she's coming home and talking about how she's the dumbest kid in her class and how her teacher hates her.  On her weekly letter home, she has to write herself, she often has notes from her teacher that says, "DD was not able to complete this in over an hour and it is still incomplete".  He thinks I can do a better job working with her daily than she will get at school and we will also be able to spend more time on activities she enjoys like sewing, knitting, dancing, etc. . .  He does admit he's seen medication really help some children, but he's also seen the other side. . .where medication takes a curious, communicative, happy child and turns them into something else.  He's always seeing doctors changing meds around and children getting worse and worse.  Another thing, is the doctors we have access to are very quick with medication for everything. . .every time we've gone to the clinic we've been offered a drug for something.  We also discontinued vaxing after DD had a reaction to the DPT (which may be where this came from, we don't know) and we try to stay under the radar as much as possible by trying to avoid the clinic.  We do follow a natural diet at home, we eat mostly whole foods and give our children supplements like probiotics, cod liver oil, and multi vitamin green drinks.  We eat a lot of fish for the omegas.  We have thought about cutting gluten as well to see if that helps, but living in Belgium makes that somewhat hard. . .but not impossible.  DD really is as sweet as can be.  She's thoughtful, compassionate, helpful (although it might take a little extra time). . .one of her school counselors says she's the most polite child she's ever worked with (this isn't her counselor, but she loves to go on walks with her during recess instead of playing with the other kids on the playground).  Honestly, I'm not sure if academia is ever going to be the place for DD. . .but I'd like for her to learn the skills she'll need to live a happy and successful enough life.  Perhaps if I bring her home again to homeschool we can spend maybe an hour a day working on math skills, writing, spelling, reading. . .and the rest of the time working on things she can use later like her sewing, knitting, cooking (she loves to cook), etc. . .where ever her interests take us :)  I do worry about home schooling her with DS also home schooling. . .since like I said before he's already passing her academically. . .but perhaps if we put just as much time and energy into her life skills and think about those as just as important as the academic stuff. . .well, she'll probably always be a better crafter, communicator than her brother so they will both have their "gifts" they can be proud of.

[sbgrace]

I'd homeschool her if you think you can do it supportively. Maybe if the pressure (on you) to accomplish something specifically in a specific time frame was gone you could manage it better? I guess I'm saying knowing there are issues can you just start where she is and make progress that you make in her time frame? It just seems your husband is a good judge of how the school isn't equipped to meet her needs academically and it's plain the impact on her sense of self is not positive.

It may be that Calvert wasn't a good choice for her situation or you as a teacher. There are so many options.

I homeschool my kids and my original motivation was the special needs child because as a former teacher here I believed his needs wouldn't be met in our school system.

Given what you shared about your husband I'm really wondering if there are learning disabilities going on together with those attention problems. Is there private (and good) testing for learning disabilities in your area of Belgium? I'd be really wondering about one of the forms of dyslexia for example. If you do find learning issues you can likely address those in a homeschool situation better than the school might or at least I've found that to be true!

If it is borderline MR you would approach it as an opportunity to make progress at her pace while protecting her self concept or at least that would be my approach. But I'd want to make sure it's that rather than specific learning issues you could address.

I'm not for or against meds myself. I do know from special needs boards (including homeschool ones) that when parents eventually do them they often seem to wish they had done them earlier. My son has pretty serious attention issues but because of homeschooling I feel I can accomodate them right now. I know, though, I may eventually do meds and kick myself that we didn't help him in that way sooner!

[spedteacher30]

My first year of teaching, I observed an 8th grader for an evaluation that had every hallmark of ADD--inattentive type. but, until my observation, no one had ever noticed it. His IQ came out at 85. I tentatively made the suggestion to the parents (who had already chosen a private school for the following year) that they might want to follow up with private testing and talk to the doctors about a possible medication trial. the psychologist got livid with me because he felt the IQ was totally valid, even though I disagreed.

I saw the mom a few years later when her daughter was in our school. She ran up and hugged me and said that her son had a second evaluation after 6 months of a medication trial and his IQ jumped over 30 points, and his grades in high school were straight A's.

So, if I were in your shoes, I would make an appointment with a child psychiatrist and a psychologist who specialized in attention issues. It is very possible that a condition like ADD or anxiety is suppressing her scores in a significant way.

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

UGH! That does not sound like a good school match for your dd! It sounds like your dh is on with that.

If you are going to home school, is there a home school group you could become involved with. I know that a lot of parents with special needs kids home school, so maybe you could hook up with a parent who is doing the same thing and you could brainstorm together and maybe even take turns with different lessons? I'd also recommend posting this over in the home school forum and getting advice there from some really experienced home schoolers.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by treemom2 

Hi, thanks for all your replies :)  My DH is a special education teacher who specializes in behavioral and emotional disabilities.  He's really wonderful at his job.  We live in Belgium and he works for an International School.  78% of the students at his school are gifted or on the higher level of the bell curve. . .most of the teachers are unable or unwilling to work effectively with children who do not fall into the school "norm".  Our dd does not fall into that 78%. . .so he worries about the teachers she will and does have at this school.  Also, when my DH was young he was very much like our DD.  He was placed in special ed for reading and spent an entire year not being able to go to recess because he couldn't pass his spelling tests.  He does not want this to happen to our DD.  Right now she's coming home and talking about how she's the dumbest kid in her class and how her teacher hates her.  On her weekly letter home, she has to write herself, she often has notes from her teacher that says, "DD was not able to complete this in over an hour and it is still incomplete".  He thinks I can do a better job working with her daily than she will get at school and we will also be able to spend more time on activities she enjoys like sewing, knitting, dancing, etc. . .  He does admit he's seen medication really help some children, but he's also seen the other side. . .where medication takes a curious, communicative, happy child and turns them into something else.  He's always seeing doctors changing meds around and children getting worse and worse.  Another thing, is the doctors we have access to are very quick with medication for everything. . .every time we've gone to the clinic we've been offered a drug for something. 

I can see why your dh wants to homeschool. As for comparing herself to her brother, she is already comparing herself to the entire school and they don't seem particularly interested in helping to change that.

Regarding medication, it's up to you. Could you travel for an evaluation if you do not expect useful help from the local doctors? Ds was on Concerta which helped his ADHD a lot, but he still had significant impulse control issues in unstructured situations. His Dr. recommended upping the dose but that made ds' behavior worse. We switched to another medication, Vyvanse, and ds has been doing great in school on that--neither medication changed his personality. That sometimes medication may be used inappropriately is not an argument against using it ever.

[Linda on the move]

If you brought her home to homeschool, could your dh work with her on core subjects in the evening and then you would be free to do fun, project based learning during the day?

I would try meds if my child had add, was far behind their peers, and had self esteem issues.

We moved last summer and one of our concerns was school for our sn dd. She is now in the perfect school for her and it is making such a difference.

[beachcomber]

Originally Posted by spedteacher30 

My first year of teaching, I observed an 8th grader for an evaluation that had every hallmark of ADD--inattentive type. but, until my observation, no one had ever noticed it. His IQ came out at 85. I tentatively made the suggestion to the parents (who had already chosen a private school for the following year) that they might want to follow up with private testing and talk to the doctors about a possible medication trial. the psychologist got livid with me because he felt the IQ was totally valid, even though I disagreed.

I saw the mom a few years later when her daughter was in our school. She ran up and hugged me and said that her son had a second evaluation after 6 months of a medication trial and his IQ jumped over 30 points, and his grades in high school were straight A's.

So, if I were in your shoes, I would make an appointment with a child psychiatrist and a psychologist who specialized in attention issues. It is very possible that a condition like ADD or anxiety is suppressing her scores in a significant way.

Really agreeing with your comments re: questioning the validity of the IQ assessment based on standardized testing. A child with LDs will have trouble completing standardized tests. A child with attention and focus problems, sensory issues, processing challenges, who is an any way not neurotypical will have problems excelling on standardized testing for IQ. It's my biggest beef with using it at all. It means nothing about a child's ability or prospects. It's just a number used to label a kid as either X or Y. Argh!

It's very common for kids to improve drastically on IQ tests after they've received therapies that help them manage LDs, gross or fine motor delays, attention deficits, processing issues and so on. Don't look at the test results you have now as the only outcome. They are the initial outcome after the first round of testing. They'll be useful down the road to show you how much progress your DD has made after receiving supports.

I also agree with another poster who suggested your husband do some of the homeschooling with your DD. I think that it's been very hard for you to do it on your own. Get him to help you set up the curriculum, lesson plans and timelines. Factor in that your DD has some deficits in focus, attention and possibly in processing information. Expand your repertoire of information around alternative teaching methods. She may be a profoundly visual learner or she may be very kinesthetic and need to learn by doing for herself. There are ways to teach math using manipulatives, models, and using cooking or baking. She may find it easier to do things orally than in written form.

[NightOwlwithowlet]

I seriously doubt the validity of IQ tests for kids with learning disabilities, whatever the learning disability is ADHD, speech related, dyslexia, or auditory processing.  My son's IQ has been measured from 67 to an averaged of verbal and nonverbal in the 120s.  I think his IQ test score varied due his age, speech delay, the test, the person giving the test, whether his ADHD was being treated, and the mood he was in.  

He does have pretty severe ADHD and we home school him because it's working for now.  I'm not a huge fan of ADHD medication, but my son took it when he attended school.  I think of medication as one of the tools in the tool box to help him.  Sometimes, medication is the right tool for the job, sometimes it's one of the tools, and sometimes it's the wrong tool.  Right now we are treating his ADHD with diet, play therapy, martial arts, supplements, fish oil, and a chiropractor, and he's doing great.  In the past we've used medication, homeopathy, social skills class, private school, and cognitive behavioral therapy.  We may use some of those tools again in the future.

[treemom2]

Again, thank you all for your replies!  The first few days after getting the testing back I was really freaked out.  However, now I'm feeling confident and ready for the next step!  DD is finishing up her testing at school then I'm bringing her home to school again.  DH would like to make an activity box with colored strips for each subject.  DD will get to pick one activity in each color to do a day (so a red for a math activity, an orange for spelling, a yellow for writing, etc. . .).  Each activity should take less than 10 minutes for her to complete.  I'm also going to try to sign her up for a sewing class and I'd like her still to attend specials at the school (PE, French, culture, art, and music).  She'll also still attend Brownies, Knitting club, and Sign language club at the school.

I do know that IQ score is incorrect.  Friday she brought home a packet of work she was unable to complete in class (her morning work, none of it was done). . .she was able to complete the entire weeks worth of work in less than an hour at home with minimal assistance.  I really think she's just very distracted in school and at home she doesn't have these distractions (she's so social).  I think now that I know it's not just me having a hard time teaching her. . .well, it's done wonders for my self esteem as a homeschooling mom.  I realize now she was doing much better with me at home. . .and I've realized I just need to take things a little slower with her.  I think I'm okay with that :)  I really wish I had a homeschooling group here for those times when I'm doubting myself. . .but, unfortunately, I don't.

I really don't want people thinking I'm judging them for medicating.  I'm really not.  As parents we have to decide what's best for our children and for our families.  I honestly don't think my DD needs medication if I'm able to bring her home and modify her lessons in a way that she's able to be successful.  If I were keeping her in school, well, that might be a different story. . .I think I would have to medicate to help her deal with "school".  I hope that makes sense.  

[Monkeypants]

I just had to chime in here as I think I may be coming from different perspective. Even though your DD has been tested and evaluated and may indeed have issues with learning/attention and possibly even MR (though I agree that IQ tests at her age are possibly inaccurate) please try to remember that all children learn at their own pace and there are LOTS and LOTS of ways to learn. Personally, I believe that children teach themselves and as long as the atmosphere is intellectual, they will learn what they need to, when they are ready. I realize that this doesn't work for some families, and that many people do not share my perspective, but maybe easing up on the academics and letting her take the lead about what she might like to learn about would help her to feel more successful.  Google "unschooling" or "child-led-learning" or even" unit-studies" or "eclectic homeschooling" to check out the ways you can help her learn in less formal ways. You might find something that really works for her and your family. Good luck!!

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Monkeypants 

Personally, I believe that children teach themselves and as long as the atmosphere is intellectual, they will learn what they need to, when they are ready.

I completely disagree with this statement for special needs children. Some children have to work to learn, and wasting years of their life waiting for them to be ready just puts them further and further and further behind.

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

I've got to agree with Linda. My son has auditory processing disorder. That doesn't just go away when he's ready for it to. He needed and still needs special help just to understand what people around him are saying. This was a major issue for him. He will not naturally learn social skills. He has to be taught over and over again. He didn't just learn how to be able to stay in his chair at dinner without randomly falling out. He needed PT. Manychildren's disabilities require special attention to be able to learn even simple things. I'm not saying that sometimes it's not just a maturity issue or just an issue of other interests, but many times that isn't the problem.

[karne]

Originally Posted by Monkeypants 

 Personally, I believe that children teach themselves and as long as the atmosphere is intellectual, they will learn what they need to, when they are ready. 

This is one of those statements that sounds like it should make sense, but it actually has very little to do with educating a child with learning disabilities.  

[Monkeypants]

Maybe I misunderstood the OP but it seems to me that this child might not have as many special needs as the school thinks she does- perhaps in a different setting, her strengths could shine and her confidence could blossom. The dad is a special education teacher, if I'm not mistaken, and that puts this family in a great position to identify potential problems. Dad had similar issues when he was young. I'm just throwing out a different perspective here- I'm not ignorant of the needs of special needs kids. I have a couple of my own. I stick by my statement that all children learn in their own way and their own pace- and I feel it is up to the parent (or teacher) to adapt to the child, not make the child adapt to the curriculum- and that's nearly impossible to do in most traditional school settings. Just my opinion, and I hope it helps the OP make the best decision for her child and family. And just to clarify, I am talking about academic skills here, not social/emotional ones. I realize these issues often have to be "taught" and reinforced. The OP said her daughter is "kind and loving" she sounds like a great kid. Perhaps she is a child who needs more time to "get" the academics. My typical 10 yo didn't read until she was 8 and not fluidly and for pleasure until she was 10. She would have been labeled in school as a "reluctant" reader at the very least, when, really, she just needed time. My 7 yo has sensory challenges that would make school difficult, but at home she can learn at her own pace, free from having to sit still and attend for long periods of time, free from lunchroom noise, free from having to learn stuff she's not interested in or ready for. This all I'm saying.

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

Originally Posted by Monkeypants 

Maybe I misunderstood the OP but it seems to me that this child might not have as many special needs as the school thinks she does- perhaps in a different setting, her strengths could shine and her confidence could blossom. The dad is a special education teacher, if I'm not mistaken, and that puts this family in a great position to identify potential problems. Dad had similar issues when he was young. I'm just throwing out a different perspective here- I'm not ignorant of the needs of special needs kids. I have a couple of my own. I stick by my statement that all children learn in their own way and their own pace- and I feel it is up to the parent (or teacher) to adapt to the child, not make the child adapt to the curriculum- and that's nearly impossible to do in most traditional school settings. Just my opinion, and I hope it helps the OP make the best decision for her child and family. And just to clarify, I am talking about academic skills here, not social/emotional ones. I realize these issues often have to be "taught" and reinforced. The OP said her daughter is "kind and loving" she sounds like a great kid. Perhaps she is a child who needs more time to "get" the academics. My typical 10 yo didn't read until she was 8 and not fluidly and for pleasure until she was 10. She would have been labeled in school as a "reluctant" reader at the very least, when, really, she just needed time. My 7 yo has sensory challenges that would make school difficult, but at home she can learn at her own pace, free from having to sit still and attend for long periods of time, free from lunchroom noise, free from having to learn stuff she's not interested in or ready for. This all I'm saying.

I do think that school has a huge amount to do with whether a child gets the special attention they need to deal with a learning disability. We've been incredibly blessed with the school district my kids go to. Their IEP's are truly that, individual education plans.

But, I also know from my sister, who is a special education teacher, that many schools try to short change kids with special needs, because they don't have the funds or simply can't be bothered with making the changes that need to be made. It sounds to me like this is the type of school that the OPs dd is going to. I think that sort of education seriously harms a child's self confidence, which can totally destroy a love of learning for a child.

I'm just wondering if there isn't a middle ground for the OP. It doesn't sound like she feels she is able to educate her dd on her own. So perhaps a better school more dedicated to children with special needs or a homeschool group with experience dealing with these needs to give her ideas of where to start.