Dopplers?

[AJandElijahsmommy]

I have heard that these are not recommended for home use, can someone tell me why?

[MamaRabbit]

It's not that it's not recommended for home use.  They have NOT been proven to be safe for the fetus.  Do some research on the safety of ultrasound... a good place to start is on Midwifery Today, or look up an article by Dr. Marsden Wagner called "Ultrasound Unsound" for an intro.

[AJandElijahsmommy]

Originally Posted by MamaRabbit 

It's not that it's not recommended for home use.  They have NOT been proven to be safe for the fetus.  Do some research on the safety of ultrasound... a good place to start is on Midwifery Today, or look up an article by Dr. Marsden Wagner called "Ultrasound Unsound" for an intro.

I knew ULTRASOUNDS were not safe, but I was not aware of how DOPPLERS work, they are ultrasound too? Do these articles specifically talk about dopplers? thanks. :) 

[MamaRabbit]

Doppler is U/S and even worse because it is continuous.  1min of doppler = 30 of U/S.

[ursusarctos]

Originally Posted by MamaRabbit 

Doppler is U/S and even worse because it is continuous.  1min of doppler = 30 of U/S.

Wow really? I knew dopplers were "worse" but I could never find any sources saying just how much worse. Out of curiosity, where did you find that statistic?

[tessie]

They're not recommended because most people don't know how to interpret the results.

[Mamatoabunch]

Originally Posted by tessie 

They're not recommended because most people don't know how to interpret the results.

Huh?  Most people cannot interpret a HB and amount of beats per minute w/ a doppler? That is a dopplers sole purpose.

[vegemamato]

Originally Posted by tessie 

They're not recommended because most people don't know how to interpret the results.

Who are most people?  They're actually pretty easy to use..

[HariB]

You know, I have heard the same claim MamaRabbit makes, about dopplers....but then I read a little piece written by an ultrasonagrapher who totally disputed that.  I don't know what to think about it.  I do have a neice who has a radiology degree...maybe she knows, or can point me at some solid info about this issue.  I am really wondering!

[Tulafina]

Originally Posted by vegemamato 

Originally Posted by tessie 

They're not recommended because most people don't know how to interpret the results.

Who are most people?  They're actually pretty easy to use..

I agree. They are easy to use. Count the heart rate for 15 secs...multiply by 4. BUT- Like the use of any other heart rate monitor- it can't really tell you if everything's ok or not.

I had a doppler but never used it. I bought it with my first pregnancy because I was terrified of losing my baby so I used it sparingly before I felt him moving consistently.....I just had it on hand for my UC but never actually used it. I felt him through my labour and that was good enough for me:) I too am fearful of the effects of doppler and u/s but if I felt it was necessary to hear/see I would use them sparingly.

[tessie]

Originally Posted by Tulafina 

Originally Posted by vegemamato 

Originally Posted by tessie 

They're not recommended because most people don't know how to interpret the results.

Who are most people?  They're actually pretty easy to use..

I agree. They are easy to use. Count the heart rate for 15 secs...multiply by 4. BUT- Like the use of any other heart rate monitor- it can't really tell you if everything's ok or not.

That's what I meant, the not being able to tell if everything is ok or not. I could count beats but I couldn't tell you if what I was hearing was problematic or not. Most people couldn't without advice from someone experienced in using a doppler.

I'm not anti-doppler, I had one. But in retrospect it wasn't as reassuring as I thought it was at the time.

[MamaRabbit]

I don't quite understand the math, but regardless, exposure is exposure and we don't know how much is too much.

 

Originally Posted by HariB 

You know, I have heard the same claim MamaRabbit makes, about dopplers....but then I read a little piece written by an ultrasonagrapher who totally disputed that.  I don't know what to think about it.  I do have a neice who has a radiology degree...maybe she knows, or can point me at some solid info about this issue.  I am really wondering!

[HariB]

Yeah, MamaRabbit--agreed.  It's still something that I'd like to know more about...have an email out to my niece, waiting for her reply about it.

[MamaChef]

Originally Posted by MamaRabbit 

Doppler is U/S and even worse because it is continuous.  1min of doppler = 30 of U/S.

That is absolutely not true and an exaggeration that really needs to be put to rest finally.

Colorflow and spectral doppler.. ie, visual doppler/ doppler ultrasound.. not handheld dopplers/ doptones are much more powerful then plain ultrasound.

Colorflow and spectral doppler are high frequency pulsed doppler using a transducer that is anywhere from 3-12Mhz, where handheld is a continuous wave at 2 or 3 mhz using a 9 volt battery

Yes, there is ultrasound, but no, the doppler you can rent or buy that is not an ultrasound machine is NOT more powerful then an ultrasound.. much less 20 or 30 x more powerful as Ive seen quoted on these boards repeatedly.  This issue has been clarified in Midwifery Today.

http://www.naturalchildbirth.org/nat...ventions27.htm

[Vol 2 Issue 9 March 3, 2000]:

Do most midwives regularly make use of the Doptone? Also, shouldn't each
woman be made fully aware that the Doptone is ultrasonic? Even though the
exposure periods are usually brief, I heard that 1 min. of Doptone is much
stronger--equal to 30 min of the other full-image type ultrasound. Is this
true?
Anon.
====

[Vol 2 Issue 10 March 10, 2000]:

I work for Nicolet Vascular (formerly Imex Medical). Following are excerpts
from a letter written to another person with the same concerns.
-Diane Rugh
..........
In addition, I would like to point out that the FDA limit for power
intensity emitted by a continuous wave ultrasound for fetal use is 0.094
watts per square centimeter. The FDA power intensity limit for pulsed wave
ultrasound for fetal use is 190 watts per square centimeter. The power
emitted by a Doppler can be 2,000 times less than an imager! Imex 3 MHz
probes emit 0.009 watts per square centimeter, a factor of ten times less
than the FDA limit.


Reprinted from Midwifery Today E-News (Vol 2 Issue 10 March 10, 2000)
 

[LadyJennifer]

I've heard the "1 min of doppler = 30 us" too, and it simply does not make sense to me. Who says that doppler is continuous, but ultrasound imaging is not?

[MamaRabbit]

Thank you for discussing this.  While I am all for no U/S exposure at all, it's still something that needs to be brought up as some of the main midwifery texts are still stating this... maybe I shold contact Anne Frye and ask her where she got her information....