Let's talk about socialization and toddlers - Page 2

[Latonya]

I am a first time mom who feels extremely guilty about not putting my child in daycare. He is now 2, and I feel that had I put him there a bit earlier, he would have better social skills. While I am greatful to be able to stay at home with my little Micah, I just feel that being around children a little more would be better for him. I am going to take the many suggestions and start having playdates. I see so many children who are in daycare who are much more advanced in both social and speech skills than my son, and it is at times unsettling.  Is this really something that I should feel guilty about?

[ShwarmaQueen]

Latonya, it's not uncommon for daycare kids (and younger siblings) to be more advanced than kids who stay at home or oldest children, but time after time, studies have shown things eventually even out in grade school. It's not that those kids are necessarily smarter, it's just exposure/experience. 

My personal anecdote, DD went to daycare from the time she was 2 1/2 - 4 1/2. At that time I went on maternity leave to have DS so I kept her home with me. We went to library story time, read tons of books, and had playdates weekly. When she started kindegarten at was behind many kids, but now, 6 months later she has surpassed nearly her entire classroom in reading and writing. :)

So I don't think preschool is at ALL necessary, unless the alternative is cartoons all day (or similar, non-stimulating enviro).

[tzs]

while some daycare kids might know their alphabets better or animal sounds or whatnot.....i've found from working at one (like i said, a very very good one) that alot of the kids are way behind socially and emotionally. it really depends on the kid, how sensitive they are, and if they feel valued. kids seem to know if they are there because the family needs them to be there to survive or if they are seen as more of an inconvenience. i had a kid in my class this year that was amazing skillwise, way advanced and very mature with those types of things but socially and emotionally was a wreck...pacifier addict, tantrums, clinging and whining, desperate for attention. very cool little girl but so so behind emotionally...and had been in full-time care (even on parents' days off) since 6 weeks. it was actually very tough emotionally having a class of kids this year that had been full-time year-round plus before care and aftercare since tiny babies. 

[beebalmmama]

This was my experience with my ds. He was very reserved/shy and seemed to have a lot of anxiety around social situation. Unfortunately I had to go back to work when he was 18 months old. Initially he was in an in home setting with a SAHM and her two boys. But when he was 2 yrs  we moved him to a daycare setting. He really didn't interact with many of the kids, just played along side them for almost the whole year. When he entered the 3 yr old class it was a HUGE difference. It still took him awhile to settle in but he really took off socially. He is still socially quiet and takes time to warm to people, but handles social/public situations so much better now as a 5.5 yr old.

I think 18 month is a little young for a preschool set up and would probably benefit just as well from some play dates. I'm looking at finding some playgroups in the next few months for my ds2 (only 14 months now) because he is such a little social butterfly and seems so interested in people (very different from his brother).

Originally Posted by ellemenope 

Bumping up for some answers for you,

 

Originally Posted by mckittre 

A sort of related question I'll throw in that I've been wondering about with my almost-2-year-old.  What if they don't really like other kids?  Do they eventually get over that?  We spend time with other toddlers (and some babies and older kids too), because I think it's good for him, and the parents are my friends as well.  But he'd much rather play with their toys without having to deal with having other children around.  His favorite social situations are all-adult parties with some new toys around (like when a grandparent has some around for occasionally visiting grandkids).  I'd love to childcare swap with some of my friends, but my kid doesn't liked being watched by others, and having other kids around only increases the stress of mom or dad being gone. 

I don't know.  I do know that if something really stresses out my DD we avoid it, and I am SURE he will outgrow it.  Also, I have found that four year olds make great playmates for my two year old.  IME 2 year olds do not mix well at all.  They should be sprinkled lightly amongst other age groups.  Volatile substances they are.  JMO.
 

[seasiren]

Play dates are so important for our family. My 15 month old son loves seeing his friends and making new ones. He has also benefitted from twice a week at a very small daycare (4 boys) with kids his age. We started that after his first birthday. It seems isolating to me to keep him alone with us all day everyday. That being said my DH and I are both social people. We are also introverted people so our down time is also precious. Teaching children to adapt to your lifestyle is advise I took to heart when I was pregnant with him. We play, we socialize, we have alone time, we have family time, and we have time apart. All these things are important for our family.

My mother loves to tell me how she did things, especially when it is different from how I do it, but you know what thats okay too. When it irritates me I let off steam about it, then just try to be grateful for all she has given me as a child. I am glad I have set up boundaries with her, but have also allowed her in so she can have a strong relationship with her grandson.

I wish these things were more straight forward, but really it is a personal decision. You may want to tell your inlaws that. They will respect you for it in the long run. Or they will be afraid of you, but either way you may get some peace from their opinions.

[LROM]

Originally Posted by LROM 
 

At some point your child will have to interact with the world in meaningful ways, and wouldn't you want to help your child (shy or outgoing, comfortable or anxious) navigate how they interact and build relationships from as young an age as possible?

I think there are amazing benefits to being able to be a SAHM and provide that safe, rich enviro for your young'un to develop in.  But why wouldn't you also want to create opportunities for your young'un to regularly be exposed to the same kid or kids and let both your toddler and you learn who your child is and where you may want to nurture them further or focus some of your parenting energy based on what you see as their strengths and their challenges?

I have to agree. After reading all the responses and giving the matter a great deal of thought, I realized that regular exposure to the same couple of kids was something that, admittedly, I had not even considered. Thus far, I'd been operating off the idea that at this age, she is pretty much as blank slate. She has not yet developed self-knowledge: who she is, what she wants and what she's capable of. I wanted her to grow up knowing herself well enough that she does not need the groups (or even her friends) approval to maintain her self-confidence. I felt that, at this age, throwing her into a large group of her peers daily she would, even this young, be faced with peer pressure and not having a strong sense of self, be easily molded into thinking that what the group does and how it acts is how she should be and act. (I've read alot of John Holt recently) and built up a worst case scenario in my head. Basically, I scared myself. Not the wisest thing to do when you're a parent!
 

I'm really glad that resonates with you.  I think you might also find something else very interesting: I work in child welfare and so work with a lot of child development specialists and child psychologists.  There's a piece of info I heard time and time again before becoming a mom that I took seriously to heart and I'm so glad I did: You know, every single age and stage is of course important in child development and shaping who they become.  But over and over I've heard experts say that if you HAD to narrow down to one single window that is MORE influential on who your child will be and how they will be than any other window, it's age 0-2 yrs old.  From all points of view: nutrition, socialization, education, behavior boundary setting... even if 2 even seems to young for some of those, those 1st 2 years lay the groundwork for how the rest of their development will go.

Again, that's not to say you can't have positive (and negative, unfortunately) influences on a child at every other stage, because you can.  But if you had to pick 2 yrs that matter most, it's 0-2.

I really think a lot of families see babies as these sweet, cute little things (or crying, screaming little things), but either way they think that nothing they do or say around them really matters much until they can talk.  SO not true.  Not only are they not blank slates, but you want to sow the seeds for everything that is important to you in these years, even though there's still MUCH work to do with them every year after that as well.

Just something I thought you might find interesting.  Good luck with the playdates, let us know how they go!
 

[tzs]

Originally Posted by seasiren 

Play dates are so important for our family. My 15 month old son loves seeing his friends and making new ones. He has also benefitted from twice a week at a very small daycare (4 boys) with kids his age. We started that after his first birthday. It seems isolating to me to keep him alone with us all day everyday. That being said my DH and I are both social people. We are also introverted people so our down time is also precious. Teaching children to adapt to your lifestyle is advise I took to heart when I was pregnant with him. We play, we socialize, we have alone time, we have family time, and we have time apart. All these things are important for our family.

My mother loves to tell me how she did things, especially when it is different from how I do it, but you know what thats okay too. When it irritates me I let off steam about it, then just try to be grateful for all she has given me as a child. I am glad I have set up boundaries with her, but have also allowed her in so she can have a strong relationship with her grandson.

I wish these things were more straight forward, but really it is a personal decision. You may want to tell your inlaws that. They will respect you for it in the long run. Or they will be afraid of you, but either way you may get some peace from their opinions.

this really resonates....especially the part about teaching children to adapt to your lifestyle. i also really like this way to look at teh advice others' give us. well said.

[Latonya]

 Okay, LROM, you are scaring me. At two, my son can sometimes be a little terror and I don't want to think that this is going to be his attitude! lol. But, of course, I understand what you are saying as well. My son was almost 4 months preemie, and while I do think that his social skills are a little behind, the Dr's also state that he is chronologically only 20 months old. I have set up a play date for Saturday, and hope all goes well. As a new mom, sometimes you think the best thing is to have the child around you and teach him, but I am realizing that he really needs to be around more kids his age. I notice that when he sees kids his age, he gets really excited and wants to hug and play with them immediately. That makes me feel terrible! I went to the library today for story time and he absolutely loved it. Hopefully, this will help him.

[tillymonster]

Thank you for this thead!

I had to revive this mainly because my sister who is all of 26, thinks I need to do a better job "socializing" my 2yo. I explain to her... kiddos this age play in parallel rather then *with* other kids. I have a theory about it, actually. My nephew, who is a year older, is much more "social" then my daughter. I think it's her personality, she's just shy and a bit timid. There is nothing wrong with that. My nephew? He scopes out kids to play with. He's a flirt. He's just that way! My sister lives in a TINY community and never has play dates. She can barely make it to the park, it's about a 30min drive down a mountain road. It's beautiful but very remote. Me? I'm in a large metropolitan area, take DD to Storytime and have been since she was 4 months old. I have even had a few play dates! My DD is usually glued to my site... the entire time. Who should be more "social" in that situation? If you thought "socializing" was necessary. Which I don't think even matters, personally. Just like I don't push myself into social situations unless I feel comfortable, I would never do that to my kiddo either. It feels wrong. It's such an annoying blanket statement to have people tell me I need to send DD to preschool (or, a glorified daycare, and expensive) just because she needs "socializing". Just my opinion. 

Can you ladies point me to any studies/articles online I can send to sister or anyone else, for that matter, that has an opinion about this? TIA!

[fizgig]

http://www.parentingscience.com/preschool-stress.html

Tilly, that is a link to an AP anthropologist who looks at some of the data about preschool in relation to social skills.  The short version is that, while kids who have been in preschool tend to be a little ahead academically (or at least low income kids get a boost, its unclear what the effect is on middle and upper income kids), kids in preschool also tend to be behind socially.  They tend to have worse social skills and less effective coping mechanisms.  So all the talk about needing preschool to learn social skill is total bunk. 

Here's a quote:

“We find that attendance in preschool centers, even for short periods of time each week, hinders the rate at which young children develop social skills and display the motivation to engage classroom tasks, as reported by their kindergarten teachers” (Loeb et al 2005).

[sk8boarder15]

I don't think Pre-school or daycare or anything like it is ever needed if you are an engaged attentive parent. If your kids needs are well taken care of at home (eg.. they aren't eating junk and watching TV all the time) they will be fine. This kind of huge groups of same age children is a new concept, and personally I think its better than being with neglectful (or just plain BAD) parents, its really not that good either. My son tends to get overwhelmed in large groups of toddlers, but in small groups of mixed age people he is very very happy. We do go to play group once a week, and he enjoys it, but if its too crazy he gets upset and we leave and as soon as we are out the door he's back to his happy self. 

He has a 3 year old cousin (they are 18 months apart) that he sees 2-3xs a week and he adores! They are like brothers and feel like that's the kind of relationships with other kids that are natural. Kids of other parents that mom/dad interact with, cousins, siblings etc. Its unnatural to gather 20- 2 year olds stick them in a room as say "get along, and play with each other" kids aren't physiologically ready for that! What is normal though is community, immediate family, extended family, people in your neighborhood, people at the park. If you are attentive to your child and teaching them basics along the way they will be fine. In fact I think being exposed to all the normal things in a day mom would be exposed to is more helpful to them than being in a preschool all day with other kids. That's just me though.... I have no idea if our son will go to school. It will be based on his personality, and what schools are available to us. But right now at 18 months old he's happy, healthy, friendly, and already loves learning. When he started pointing at letters I started teaching him thier names and sounds, he knows about 4 letters already and has never been to daycare. 

[tillymonster]

OMG Fizgig! Love love love your username! And thank you for the report. Will be posting to Facebook with a blanket statement so I don't insult anyone. Ha!

I have nothing against people who put their kiddos in daycare. I have considered it myself several times. I just wish it wasn't one of those "necessary" things about child rearing that isn't *actually* necessary. Come to think of it... the same thing is said of formula-feeding. My BIL actually asked me when I'll wean of breast milk to formula. I replied "never!" and got a weird look! O_o

But this is off topic! Thanks so much for the replies and bring more on, if you know any studies!

[marsupial-mom]

My 2 year old is in daycare twice a week. I think it's good for him because he learns things from the other kids and the teachers. And he gets plenty of intellectual, physical, and social stimunlation. But I think staying out of school would be fine too. In fact, the first daycare we tried was terrible. He was younger (18 months) so that was part of it - he just wasn't ready to spend time away from me with people he didn't know. It was incredibly stressful on all of us. But the bigger problem was the daycare.

If you choose to put your kiddo in daycare, just pick a good one. It makes all the difference. It's not even fair to compare home vs daycare. The comparisons should be between good daycare vs bad daycare and good parents vs bad parents. 

As far as socializing goes, I do not think that kids need to be away from parents in order to develop friendships with other kids. I've seen it happen with my own son on playdates and with family. He can play with friends while I sit on a bench nearby. I firmly disagree with the notion that kids under age 3 "need" time away from their parents. That's complete BS. You know what's more likely? The parent needs time away from the kiddo. The parent needs real adult socialization and can't get that with a toddler hanging around. I found that for myself. I needed the opportunity to really use my brain to learn something new, to feel intellectually stimulated - and that's something that is virtually impossible to do while caring for a toddler.

But for whatever reason, a lot of people believe that little toddlers need to spend time away from their parents. This is similar to ideas that they need to sleep in their own rooms, etc. There's not really any scientific evidence that proves all this time away from parents is good for them in the long run, but it's part of our culture and therefor may be a good idea to do simply to help your child/family fit in and receive less criticism.

[Asiago]

Originally Posted by tillymonster 

But this is off topic! Thanks so much for the replies and bring more on, if you know any studies!

New report examines effects nationwide of preschool on kids' development           

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2005/11/01_pre.shtml

http://www.texaspolicy.com/commentaries_single.php?report_id=1147

Edited by Asiago - 4/9/12 at 5:46pm

[JudiAU]

Eh. I don't think there is very much value at that age. Later, yes, I think part-time really high quality play-based preschool is wonderful. However, I would never send a child full time and never choose a developmental or head start place. Or choose a place that used punitive time outs or whatever.

We go to a Reggio school that is really wonderful i.e. painting with found and homemade pigments, child led tasks, fine motor skills are usually wire work with beads and pliers, no sugar, collaborative art, real clay etc. Disputes are resolved with discussion.

But if you don't have access to the really good kinds of school, then I think a home environment is probably better quality. A LOT of preschool are really daycare in disguise and many of them are pretty lousy.

[tillymonster]

Yes everywhere I look is really JUST a "glorified" daycare. I will look into Reggio more-- it's just too soon if you ask me. And some kids would do fine away from the parent. I totally agree that I'm the one who wants some time! So true! But I am OK waiting till she is ready.

Right now, at 28mo my DD is Velcro'd to me in most social situations and wouldn't do well in daycare/preschool. I know she won't. I'd have to let her cry a couple of times to get her "used" to it and I don't feel comfortable with that AT ALL. I didn't do that kind of thing when she was a baby and don't want to now. Everytime I even talk about it with anyone I get the "they won't do well in school" spiel. That's IMHO because the schools (public) in my state really suck overall. I reply with that and get agreement from most.

Going to check out that Berkeley study now...

[sk8boarder15]

I've been reading books on Montessori and home schooling and now I pretty much think all "traditional" schools are more harm than good. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty1AXMuY1uY

http://www.unpluggedmom.com/featured/the-idea-of-a-democratic-education/

If I were to send my son to a preschool it would probably be montessori so he wouldn't be expeced to socialize with other children and would be in a mixed age group.