Daycare Crisis

[VisionaryMom]

When I picked DD up today, she had a (very clear) hand print on her arm. When I asked her about it, she wouldn't talk about it & started crying. She tends to shut down when she's upset, so we left. I took her jacket off at home to show DH, and he asked her about it. She told him that the lead person in her daycare room grabbed her arm because she was "being bad" by not picking up f@#* Legos.

Then she ran in the dining room and hid under the table. She started playing with our cat.

At bedtime, I told her that DH is going to daycare tomorrow to "talk" to them and that we need to make sure that what she told us was true. She said that it was. I asked her why she didn't want to tell me when I asked, and she said "because it's a secret. That's why I whispered in Cat's ear." Omfg. 

I explained that no, she shouldn't have any secrets and that things like that are not to be kept from us - ever. She said that she didn't want to tell me because Teacher hit her once last week. She said that "it's okay because adults like teachers can hit kids when they're bad." 

So...steam is coming from my ears. I am just so pissed! We got recommendations about this daycare from various people we know, all of whom said it's wonderful. It's the best daycare in town, yada, yada.

DH indirectly works for the Division of Childcare in our state (he's a programmer and is "loaned" to them from the technology cabinet). He is going to talk to them tomorrow morning because I just cannot do so with any semblance of decorum. We used a PT nanny for a long time and just switched to daycare last October. The current teacher moved to this room on Jan. 3, so DD's been in there with her for 3 weeks.

DH does not want to pay for this week or for the next 2 weeks (which is what our contract states). Would you pay? I don't want to, but I also don't really want to fight with them over it. I'm sick to my stomach thinking that this even happened in the first place.

Would you file a report? DH at first was going to file when he gets to work tomorrow morning. Then he said that he's not sure, but I keep thinking that we should because there should be some record. I'm not sure how it will look tomorrow morning. It's light purple right now, but it's *definitely* an adult hand print right on the inner elbow.

[frugalmum]

Take pictures of her arm, file a report, tell the daycare you are filing a report and thus not paying.  Do not send her back there or *you* could be held accountable for putting her in an unsafe environment.

[APToddlerMama]

What?!!?!?  That is terrible.  I am so so sorry for your daughter and your family. :(

Please, take a photo, and IMMEDIATELY report this to CPS in the morning.  If you can, I would also immediately call childcare licensing in your state and report it to them.  Quite frankly, it is assault, and I would be also calling the police.

Do *not* have your husband go in to talk to the daycare.  Let your report do the talking.  You do not want to give them a heads up so they can cover their tails even better.  And please, please, do not send your daughter back there.  Good luck mama.

[APToddlerMama]

And no way, don't pay them!  For what?  Abusing your daughter?  No way.

[Alyantavid]

Take pictures, file a report and whether you pay is up to you, but I think this probably violates any contract you may have signed.  I probably would talk to the daycare and get an explanation so that you have at least contacted them.

Your poor little girl. 

[VisionaryMom]

I took pictures last night, and DH is working on the report today. He's going to call the daycare director to tell her that DD is not going to be back. 

Oh, yes, and we're not sending her back. I left that out of the OP, but now we're definitely not going to send her back there. What makes me sad is that she was so excited this morning that she doesn't have to go anymore. It makes me sad to think about what's been happening there. :(

[t2009]

Wow, I am so sorry for your family OP!

I think it's a good idea for your DH to file the report before talking to the daycare (which is what you suggested in your last message) so that they can't in any way talk him out of filing it.

Good luck & many 

[nextcommercial]

Did the marks show up in the pictures?  The director has no idea this happens, so she/he needs to be told immediately.  All the teachers in that room need to be interviewed right away so whoever really hurt your daughter can be escorted off the property.

It might not be the teacher your daughter says it is.  Kids will say it's someone else, because they're afraid of the actual person.  So, let the school work out the details themselves, while you make your own reports about the school.  

It's not entirely a reflection on the school.  It's a reflection on that teacher.  She may be properly trained, but still can't control her temper.  If nobody has ever seen her hurt the kids, they need to be told.  I taught in a school where the lead teacher was very harsh.  But, I never saw her hurt anybody.  One parent came in and said "my son said Teacher Bobbi yanked his arm, and he says it still hurts".  But, while I thought she was mean, I never saw anything physical.  So, nobody did anything about it, the director didn't even speak to Bobbi about what the parent said.  A month later, she was holding a child (in anger) by the wrist, and snapped two bones in his wrist.  

[angelpie545]

Definitely report, and very good that you have those pictures.  What an awful thing to happen to your poor child! I agree with the PP that it may in fact be a representation of the teacher; however, IMO, it certainly calls the school into question.  There are a lot of daycares who hire inexperienced and underqualified teachers and at times put them in charge of entire classrooms.  I cannot, CANNOT stress how important maturity and education are for preschool teachers.  It taks a specific type of personality to be able to handle dealing with a large group of active children. 

[Ellien C]

OMG! How horrible.

I want to also say that in my state it is legal for schools to strike children. Where I live in the city I've never heard of it happening but I guess it's more common in rural schools. All of our schools must spell out their discipline policy in a handbook and my schools have clearly stated that they will never strike a child. 

Anyway, it's possible this is legal in your state OR was legal where the teacher taught. None of that explains the secrecy though. Do report this and as far as the money goes - NO you don't owe them a thing. If they think you are in breach of contract, which is arguable, let them sue you to collect. They won't do it. 

I'm glad you are reporting this. 

[crunchy_mommy]

HUGS to your daughter & your whole family.

[APToddlerMama]

Even if striking a child is legal, I am certain that *leaving a bruise* changes the classification to child abuse.

Please, please, please, OP--Do not talk to the daycare until the reports have been made.  Truly you are giving them a big old chance to CYA.  Whoever investigates will be more than properly trained to handle it so that the correct teacher is held responsible.  You are more likely to make a lasting impact for those children who are still under this person's care if you let the system play out instead of giving them a heads up and time to come up with an excuse.  I've worked in child welfare and we *always* tell reporters to *wait* to discuss it until someone has gone out.  I just can't stress it enough...please wait.  Those kids need this lady to be held responsible...not for her to have an "out."
 

Originally Posted by Ellien C 

I want to also say that in my state it is legal for schools to strike children. Where I live in the city I've never heard of it happening but I guess it's more common in rural schools. All of our schools must spell out their discipline policy in a handbook and my schools have clearly stated that they will never strike a child. 

Anyway, it's possible this is legal in your state OR was legal where the teacher taught 

[One_Girl]

I think you should file a complaint with the daycare licensing department.  I am sure that was a shocking thing to see, but I also think that even if you don't believe something like that is true in the future you should not tell your child that you are going to check to make sure that it is true.  That closes down the lines of communication.  It was already hard for her to trust that you would even care because she got the idea that it was okay for her teacher to hit her so I really think it was a mistake for you to tell her you were talking to them to see if it was true.  I think you should try to find a way to convey to her that you did believe her and that she should always come talk to you because you will believe her and keep your doubts to yourself next time, especially if there is also a mark on her next time.

[APToddlerMama]

Agree completely.  I mean this gently, but kids who end up being continuously abused are kids who aren't sure that their parents will believe them when they come to them.  Kids that age don't make up stories about bruises.  They don't have the capabilities to do so. 

Originally Posted by One_Girl 

I think you should file a complaint with the daycare licensing department.  I am sure that was a shocking thing to see, but I also think that even if you don't believe something like that is true in the future you should not tell your child that you are going to check to make sure that it is true.  That closes down the lines of communication.  It was already hard for her to trust that you would even care because she got the idea that it was okay for her teacher to hit her so I really think it was a mistake for you to tell her you were talking to them to see if it was true.  I think you should try to find a way to convey to her that you did believe her and that she should always come talk to you because you will believe her and keep your doubts to yourself next time, especially if there is also a mark on her next time.

[nextcommercial]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

.  Kids that age don't make up stories about bruises.  They don't have the capabilities to do so. 

 

 

They do.  I've been working with kids since 1982, and they come up with the most bizarre stories for how they got scratches or bruises.  Of course, nobody has been mean to them, so I think that's a huge difference.  But, if I ask five kids how they got scrapes, three will make up some wild story.  I've had a four year old girl convince me she'd been kidnapped from a grocery store and they changed her name from Harley to (new name) I spent hours looking at missing children's websites to see if I could find a child who looked like her, or with the name Harley.   A two year old told me just last month that "Daddy Broke-a my foot.... Daddy closed the car on my foot".  (nothing like that ever happened)

Kids have thoughts, ideas, creativity... they are imaginative, and smart.  So, it upsets me when someone says they don't have the capabilities.  

I DO think the teacher grabbed the child because she wouldn't clean up legos though.  Or maybe it was for another reason, but the teacher was also mad about the legos.  Either way, the daughter knows she did something bad, and deserved to be grabbed like that.  I think kids really feel like if they tell mom or day that "Teacher hurt my arm today", that mom and dad will be really mad at the child because she didn't help pick up the legos.   They still don't have those reasoning skills that arm grabbing is a HUGE overreaction to refusing to help clean up.  So, the poor kid feels hurt, yet guilty, even though she didn't deserve to be treated that way for any reason.  I think the OP saying "You aren't going back there anymore, I won't allow grownups to hurt you" is letting her know they will protect her.  Now she knows she was believed.  

The director can't just march in and fire the teacher, the director needs more facts, she needs to speak to some of the teachers, and maybe observe in the classroom before making such a decision.  Or perhaps this won't be the first complaint about this teacher, and it will be the final straw.  Especially since there are pictures.

But, something serious needs to be done.  The teacher knew what she did left marks.  So, she tried to make the daughter feel like "Oh, it's OK.. I won't tell your mom how you wouldn't help"  Hoping the daughter wouldn't tell either.  And, if there hadn't been marks, I bet mom and dad never would have found out. Now that they know, the parents can do something for the other kids in that class.

[APToddlerMama]

Sorry, next commercial.  I disagree with you.  I have worked with children both in childcare as well as a child welfare situations for many years and I cannot even think of a single instance in which a 3.5 year old lied about how a serious injury happened *unless* she/he was coached by an adult to do so, and/or had a history of abuse and was not being honest about subsequent injuries.

 I should have been more clear, but everything else this kid is saying jives perfectly with her story.  Her emotional response does as well.  She is swearing (which I am assuming mom doesn't tell her to pick up her F-ing things), and is so scared she is *hiding* under a table, and she has an actual hand print on her.  I wouldn't need much more to convince me.

**editing just to say, nextcommercial, that of course kids have crazy imaginations.  My 3 year old neice told me last week that she drank bleach that morning and threw up (nope).  The boy you're talking about probably did have his foot caught (mildly) in the door.  It is totally different in a traumatic/abusive/serious situation like the one OP described. 

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Even if striking a child is legal, I am certain that *leaving a bruise* changes the classification to child abuse.

Please, please, please, OP--Do not talk to the daycare until the reports have been made.  Truly you are giving them a big old chance to CYA.  Whoever investigates will be more than properly trained to handle it so that the correct teacher is held responsible.  You are more likely to make a lasting impact for those children who are still under this person's care if you let the system play out instead of giving them a heads up and time to come up with an excuse.  I've worked in child welfare and we *always* tell reporters to *wait* to discuss it until someone has gone out.  I just can't stress it enough...please wait.  Those kids need this lady to be held responsible...not for her to have an "out."

This is very very important and cannot be stressed enough. There are posts around about a situation that happened at a daycare I worked at last year. I reported them to CPS and the daycare license department. Unfortunately, the director got wind of this before CPS showed up and the tapes of the incident magically disappeared. Without the tape there is only so much CPS can do, ya know? As of now, the daycare is still open. I have no doubts the abuse is still occurring, but now I bet the director is a bit more sneaky about it.

[VisionaryMom]

DH took care of filing everything. I don't know what will happen from here.

The director called us and asked what happened. He told her, and he said that she did seem genuinely concerned about what happened. She offered to keep him in the loop about it, but he told her that we're just not all that interested in the outcome from an HR side. Maybe we should be, but I don't want to focus on it.

DH did talk to the lead person in DD's room, who is the person who grabbed her. He said that she just stood there and didn't say anything. I'm kind of glad that she didn't try to come up with some story, which is what I expected.

DD is really happy that she's not going back. We realize now how despondent she'd gotten, and I suppose it's from being there everyday. She said that no one had hurt her before but that they yelled a lot. Plus I think the kids were spending a lot of time with their heads down on the table, being told that they couldn't do an activity, gym time, etc., because they were "bad." 

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by Ellien C 

OMG! How horrible.

I want to also say that in my state it is legal for schools to strike children.

I wanted to comment on this point. Yes, corporal punishment is legal in our state, though I hadn't considered that from a daycare perspective. My son's school does not use corporal punishment according to their handbook. They're required to include a statement about the district policy. Still I think leaving a hand print is a far cry from physical punishment (which I don't support, but I think would be true for most parents who spank as well).

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by One_Girl 

I think you should file a complaint with the daycare licensing department.  I am sure that was a shocking thing to see, but I also think that even if you don't believe something like that is true in the future you should not tell your child that you are going to check to make sure that it is true.  That closes down the lines of communication.  It was already hard for her to trust that you would even care because she got the idea that it was okay for her teacher to hit her so I really think it was a mistake for you to tell her you were talking to them to see if it was true.  I think you should try to find a way to convey to her that you did believe her and that she should always come talk to you because you will believe her and keep your doubts to yourself next time, especially if there is also a mark on her next time.

I wasn't saying that we were talking to her teacher to see if it was true. I was asking DD for verification. I told her that I needed to make sure (from her) that what she'd said earlier was what happened so that DH would know when he talked to her teacher.