Daycare Crisis - Page 2

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom 

DH took care of filing everything. I don't know what will happen from here.

The director called us and asked what happened. He told her, and he said that she did seem genuinely concerned about what happened. She offered to keep him in the loop about it, but he told her that we're just not all that interested in the outcome from an HR side. Maybe we should be, but I don't want to focus on it.

DH did talk to the lead person in DD's room, who is the person who grabbed her. He said that she just stood there and didn't say anything. I'm kind of glad that she didn't try to come up with some story, which is what I expected.

DD is really happy that she's not going back. We realize now how despondent she'd gotten, and I suppose it's from being there everyday. She said that no one had hurt her before but that they yelled a lot. Plus I think the kids were spending a lot of time with their heads down on the table, being told that they couldn't do an activity, gym time, etc., because they were "bad." 

I'm sorry, but I think you made a mistake. Yes, YOUR child will be safe because she is no longer going there, but what about all the other kids in this daycare? The director and the teacher now had a warning that they need to cover their butts and come up with a story on what happened before cps comes to talk to them. The director will make up a story and force the employees to stick with it, perhaps even saying that your dd came to daycare with the bruise (meaning that she got it at home) and that they need to start an investigation against YOU. As someone who worked in a daycare, please know that this is what happens. It is very much a cover you a$$ situation. NOBODY will admit to abusing a child, yet it happens far too often. Yes, the director may have sounded "genuinely concerned", but so did my boss. And then she deleted the tapes and went around to every single employee trying to force them into a story before CPS came to talk to us about it. If you went against the story then you are fired/forced out (notice that this is a past employer- I no longer work there). The lead teacher, in your case, didn't say anything because her boss told her to shut up and say nothing. In my situation, the director actually hired a lawyer for the employee who was abusing kids. I testified against her (obviously the boss knew about it because she testified for the accused employee). When she found out that I (and another worker) told CPS the real story she (the director) changed the story so that it was made to make me and the other employee look bad. She made up a whole story about how I made the whole story up because the accused employee was getting my hours and I was upset about it and I never liked that employee and I only caused trouble at the daycare and blah blah blah. All lies. But because the tapes were destroyed and no other employees were willing to tell the truth, the accused employee was found not guilty and still works there today. The other worker who told CPS the truth moved out of state shortly after. She hasn't been able to get a job (it's been about 8 months). She finally had one prospective employer tell her why- our old boss/director was telling everyone who called asking about that employee that she was a trouble maker, had cost the business a lot of money, wasn't good with the kids, etc. All lies. But the director is doing what she can to keep us from getting jobs now as payback.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom 

DH took care of filing everything. I don't know what will happen from here.

The director called us and asked what happened. He told her, and he said that she did seem genuinely concerned about what happened. She offered to keep him in the loop about it, but he told her that we're just not all that interested in the outcome from an HR side. Maybe we should be, but I don't want to focus on it.

DH did talk to the lead person in DD's room, who is the person who grabbed her. He said that she just stood there and didn't say anything. I'm kind of glad that she didn't try to come up with some story, which is what I expected.

DD is really happy that she's not going back. We realize now how despondent she'd gotten, and I suppose it's from being there everyday. She said that no one had hurt her before but that they yelled a lot. Plus I think the kids were spending a lot of time with their heads down on the table, being told that they couldn't do an activity, gym time, etc., because they were "bad." 

That really makes me feel sick to my stomach.  I'm sure your director is genuinely concerned--genuinely concerned that she may also be held accountable in some way, genuinely concerned that this will reflect poorly on the daycare, and sure, probably genuinely concerned about kids too.  I don't know why on earth anyone would choose to talk to the people directly instead of letting it be investigated.  That is a sure fire way to increase the chances that the teacher doesn't get 'caught' and for the same to happen to more kids.  How sad :(. 
 

[nextcommercial]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom 

DH took care of filing everything. I don't know what will happen from here.

The director called us and asked what happened. He told her, and he said that she did seem genuinely concerned about what happened. She offered to keep him in the loop about it, but he told her that we're just not all that interested in the outcome from an HR side. Maybe we should be, but I don't want to focus on it.

DH did talk to the lead person in DD's room, who is the person who grabbed her. He said that she just stood there and didn't say anything. I'm kind of glad that she didn't try to come up with some story, which is what I expected.

DD is really happy that she's not going back. We realize now how despondent she'd gotten, and I suppose it's from being there everyday. She said that no one had hurt her before but that they yelled a lot. Plus I think the kids were spending a lot of time with their heads down on the table, being told that they couldn't do an activity, gym time, etc., because they were "bad." 

That really makes me feel sick to my stomach.  I'm sure your director is genuinely concerned--genuinely concerned that she may also be held accountable in some way, genuinely concerned that this will reflect poorly on the daycare, and sure, probably genuinely concerned about kids too.  I don't know why on earth anyone would choose to talk to the people directly instead of letting it be investigated.  That is a sure fire way to increase the chances that the teacher doesn't get 'caught' and for the same to happen to more kids.  How sad :(. 
 

I think many people would have spoken to the director.  I would have done that myself.  Maybe the correct things won't happen, maybe they will.  But, if this woman loses her job, what does it matter how they chose to deal with it?    Even if she keeps her job, unless she's a complete psycho, I doubt she will ever do anything like that again.  She might need more training.  Now, she realizes that what she did not only hurt... it hurt enough to leave a mark.   This teacher needs to work in a completely different line of work.  But, she could also use a little training.   In fact, this is a good wakeup call that the entire school needs to have a training, and they all need to be on the same page.  The director needs to be more involved, and she needs to look at her enrollment and see if there are any kids that are putting too much stress on the teachers.

I've worked in daycare centers and always felt it was unfair to the teachers and other kids, that the school will allow any child to stay, no matter how difficult they are.  I think the director needs to make sure her teachers are happy.  If the teachers are happy, the kids are happy.  If you have three or four kids that ruin the whole class, then nobody is happy.  Which leads to high teacher turnover rates, or teachers finally "snapping".  

I don't understand why everybody is mad at the OP for handling things this way.  I think they know the situation best, and they handled it in the way they felt was best.  It's not like they skulked away quietly and acted like nothing was wrong.

[Alyantavid]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial 

I don't understand why everybody is mad at the OP for handling things this way.  I think they know the situation best, and they handled it in the way they felt was best.  It's not like they skulked away quietly and acted like nothing was wrong.

Exactly.  I really don't know how I'd react in this situation but as I stated in my first post, I probably would talk to the daycare.   

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial 

I think many people would have spoken to the director.  I would have done that myself.  Maybe the correct things won't happen, maybe they will.  But, if this woman loses her job, what does it matter how they chose to deal with it?    Even if she keeps her job, unless she's a complete psycho, I doubt she will ever do anything like that again.  She might need more training.  Now, she realizes that what she did not only hurt... it hurt enough to leave a mark.  

 

I've worked in daycare centers and always felt it was unfair to the teachers and other kids, that the school will allow any child to stay, no matter how difficult they are.  I think the director needs to make sure her teachers are happy.  If the teachers are happy, the kids are happy.  If you have three or four kids that ruin the whole class, then nobody is happy.  Which leads to high teacher turnover rates, or teachers finally "snapping".  

I don't understand why everybody is mad at the OP for handling things this way.  I think they know the situation best, and they handled it in the way they felt was best.  It's not like they skulked away quietly and acted like nothing was wrong.

If she loses her job, what does it matter?  It matters because she could go somewhere else, get a different job with children, and hurt them.  Or, she could apply to be a foster parent, volunteer, or whatever else.  This means that there will be NO record of her *abusing* children.  And you doubt she'd do anything like that again?   Now, she realizes she "hurt" a child?  Seriously, people who don't have the coping skills to remain composed when taking care of children *almost always* repeat their behaviors again and again and again.  That is a very faulty assumption that now that she realizes she "Hurt" a kid bad enough to leave a *bruise* that she's going to change her ways.  I bet anything she won't.  I've spent years working in child welfare and also running support groups for parents who have a history of abusing their children.  Realizing they hurt their child is rarely enough to change things...... 

Not to mention, it sounds as though you're saying that the daycare shouldn't have allowed OP's daughter to stay because she was perhaps "difficult" and caused this person to abuse her.  Lir ke it is this kids fault or something....

I'm just shocked by this whole thread and checking out from it after this post.  The reason OP could have handled it differently is that she could have chosen to make a difference, not just for her child, but any child who has the misfortune of being part of this teacher's life in the future.  It is just so sad.  I can't believe a person would stick up for this teacher, suggest the kids are the real problems, and assume she is smart enough not to do it again.  These are the attitudes that perpetuate child abuse. 

[Alyantavid]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

These are the attitudes that perpetuate child abuse. 

Come on.  This is a mama who trusted someone to care for her child and found out, quite suddenly and shockingly, that that wasn't happening. Cut her some slack.  She may not have gone about this the "right" way, but I don't think she doesn't care about other children that may come into contact with this teacher.

[nextcommercial]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

 

Not to mention, it sounds as though you're saying that the daycare shouldn't have allowed OP's daughter to stay because she was perhaps "difficult" and caused this person to abuse her.  Lir ke it is this kids fault or something....

That isn't even close to what I was saying.  I was actually picturing actual kids I had to deal with when I was working in daycare.  Not the OP's child at all.  

I do think sometimes the kids can be more work than ANY normal daycare teacher should have to deal with.  Hence the high teacher turnover rate at some daycare centers.  I think some schools can be so poorly run, that things fall apart, and nobody is happy.

I also fully believe that with the right training and support, that she wouldn't hurt anyone again.  I've never purposely hurt someone, but I've made huge mistakes, but realized what I did was wrong, and never did it again.    Then, later, I look back and think "That was really stupid, and a complete lack of common sense..what was I thinking?"

Also, I've had things that could LOOK like abuse, but weren't.  I had a child get his elbow stuck in the back of a chair.  By the time I got it loose, it looked like someone had hit him across the arm.  The mark lasted for several days.  (he was older though, so I wasn't worried he'd make something up)   So, it wouldn't be fair if the parents didn't check the story before having me arrested and destroying my livelihood.  

But, once, I put a baby on the diaper changer, realized I didn't have any wipes there, and bent down to look through the drawer for more.  He fell off, and landed in the drawer head first.  I was completely at fault.  I not only had a little seat belt and could have secured him, I could have easily held him down while looking with one hand.  But, instead I did the one stupid thing everybody knows not to do.  I didn't deserve to lose my job over that, but I was obviously negligent.  

I honestly believe with every ounce that the teacher actually DID grab the little girl out of anger.  I don't think she was selflessly trying to save the child from falling off of the jungle gym.  It was abuse.  But, I don't think going over the head of the director first would solve anything.  I think the director is probably genuinely concerned about all her students.   The OP never said she thought the director was only concerned about her own job.  

*ETA.... I have never dealt with actual ABUSE.  Maybe harshness, but not abuse.  Ive never worked with abused kids, I've never met someone who was convicted of a violent crime, so I realize that my lack of experience colors my feelings here.  But, I do think the OP and her husband made the choice they felt was right, and I support that.  

[crunchy_mommy]

I don't think anyone should be criticized for protecting themselves or their children from an abuser in whatever way they are able to. Sure, it would be great if everyone could go through 'the system' and if 'the system' were efficient & effective, but that's not always the case. Every day I feel guilty that I never pressed charges against my abuser, but I did the best I could at the time with the mental state I was in & with the information I had available. I'm sure the OP did the same.

[t2009]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

I'm just shocked by this whole thread and checking out from it after this post.  The reason OP could have handled it differently is that she could have chosen to make a difference, not just for her child, but any child who has the misfortune of being part of this teacher's life in the future.  It is just so sad.  I can't believe a person would stick up for this teacher, suggest the kids are the real problems, and assume she is smart enough not to do it again.  These are the attitudes that perpetuate child abuse. 

Yes, I suppose OP could have gone about it differently, but, honestly, if someone has not worked in a daycare setting, does not understand how the "system" works, and finds out her OWN CHILD has been the victim of abuse, the last thing we can or should expect of her is to the next day be thinking about figuring out the most efficient way to make sure this teacher never comes into contact with another child again. Not to mention that OP in her first post suggested that she was unable (emotionally) to deal with the reporting side of things. 

What an emotionally difficult situation to be in -- I can absolutely understand being (intentionally or unintentionally) entirely focused on one's own child were I to be in OPs shoes. I don't think it's fair to put the fault of an entire system on OPs shoulders, because clearly that's what's being suggested. Because we do not have a system in place that allows people like this teacher (and the daycare itself) to be held accountable for their actions, it takes a parent who is prepared to be a hero, to put aside the immediate needs of healing her own child and family, and to be clearly focused on possible future victims, to be willing to spend time navigating a bureaucratic maze instead of being fully with her child, to put aside her own life, etc. in order to make sure that the proper steps are taken in the proper order... I don't know... That sounds like a lot to expect. I like to think I'm a good person, but I don't think I'm that good.

Best of luck, OP!

[APToddlerMama]

I wasn't referring to OP at all in my comments about perpetuating abuse/sticking up for that teacher, etc.  I was referring to nextcommercial's assertations and nextcommercial sticking up for her, saying kids are difficult sometimes (as if that is an excuse), and that this woman who abused this child probably was getting training, wouldn't do it again, etc.  I am NOT referring to OP perpetuating abuse.  I am sorry OP didn't let the system play out, but the comment about attitudes is completely NOT directed at OP.  Please read the post again and I think you will see what I mean.

Originally Posted by Alyantavid 

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

These are the attitudes that perpetuate child abuse. 

Come on.  This is a mama who trusted someone to care for her child and found out, quite suddenly and shockingly, that that wasn't happening. Cut her some slack.  She may not have gone about this the "right" way, but I don't think she doesn't care about other children that may come into contact with this teacher.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by t2009 

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

I'm just shocked by this whole thread and checking out from it after this post.  The reason OP could have handled it differently is that she could have chosen to make a difference, not just for her child, but any child who has the misfortune of being part of this teacher's life in the future.  It is just so sad.  I can't believe a person would stick up for this teacher, suggest the kids are the real problems, and assume she is smart enough not to do it again.  These are the attitudes that perpetuate child abuse. 

Yes, I suppose OP could have gone about it differently, but, honestly, if someone has not worked in a daycare setting, does not understand how the "system" works, and finds out her OWN CHILD has been the victim of abuse, the last thing we can or should expect of her is to the next day be thinking about figuring out the most efficient way to make sure this teacher never comes into contact with another child again. Not to mention that OP in her first post suggested that she was unable (emotionally) to deal with the reporting side of things. 

What an emotionally difficult situation to be in -- I can absolutely understand being (intentionally or unintentionally) entirely focused on one's own child were I to be in OPs shoes. I don't think it's fair to put the fault of an entire system on OPs shoulders, because clearly that's what's being suggested. Because we do not have a system in place that allows people like this teacher (and the daycare itself) to be held accountable for their actions, it takes a parent who is prepared to be a hero, to put aside the immediate needs of healing her own child and family, and to be clearly focused on possible future victims, to be willing to spend time navigating a bureaucratic maze instead of being fully with her child, to put aside her own life, etc. in order to make sure that the proper steps are taken in the proper order... I don't know... That sounds like a lot to expect. I like to think I'm a good person, but I don't think I'm that good.

Best of luck, OP!

You know, though, we need to be village, and that means caring what happens to this teacher because it is going to directly impact other children.

It takes just as much work to pick up the phone and report this as it does to walk into the daycare center to discuss it with director.  It was suggested ahead of time by more than just me with an explanation of why it was important.  OP's choice is her choice and I understand she was probably reeling.  I am just sad that the choice is much more likely to leave other children vulnerable. 

Again though, the comment about perpetuating abuse is not directed at OP.  I get the place she is/was in.  I do not get how someone looking in from the outside though can say that daycares are allowing too "difficult" of kids to stay, teacher won't do it again, etc.  Does.not.make.sense.to.me. 
 

[t2009]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

You know, though, we need to be village, and that means caring what happens to this teacher because it is going to directly impact other children.

It takes just as much work to pick up the phone and report this as it does to walk into the daycare center to discuss it with director.  It was suggested ahead of time by more than just me with an explanation of why it was important.  OP's choice is her choice and I understand she was probably reeling.  I am just sad that the choice is much more likely to leave other children vulnerable. 

Again though, the comment about perpetuating abuse is not directed at OP.  I get the place she is/was in.  I do not get how someone looking in from the outside though can say that daycares are allowing too "difficult" of kids to stay, teacher won't do it again, etc.  Does.not.make.sense.to.me. 
 

I totally agree with the bolded above, but ... (a) It's not OP's fault that the system is such that doing things in the wrong order or not thinking 10 steps ahead will mean that this teacher will get off scot free. (b) And I don't think that OP's family's chosen approach at all indicates that she does not care what happens to the teacher or other children, she merely prioritized her response in a totally reasonable way given the circumstances (after all, they filed the report first but then the director called them). (c) Finally, OP asked for quick advice & support as she & her family had to take action immediately, and I don't think it's necessarily fair to criticize her family's decision after the fact -- Hers is a hard place to be in right now.

[purplepaperclip]

Originally Posted by t2009 

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

You know, though, we need to be village, and that means caring what happens to this teacher because it is going to directly impact other children.

It takes just as much work to pick up the phone and report this as it does to walk into the daycare center to discuss it with director.  It was suggested ahead of time by more than just me with an explanation of why it was important.  OP's choice is her choice and I understand she was probably reeling.  I am just sad that the choice is much more likely to leave other children vulnerable. 

Again though, the comment about perpetuating abuse is not directed at OP.  I get the place she is/was in.  I do not get how someone looking in from the outside though can say that daycares are allowing too "difficult" of kids to stay, teacher won't do it again, etc.  Does.not.make.sense.to.me. 
 

I totally agree with the bolded above, but ... (a) It's not OP's fault that the system is such that doing things in the wrong order or not thinking 10 steps ahead will mean that this teacher will get off scot free. (b) And I don't think that OP's family's chosen approach at all indicates that she does not care what happens to the teacher or other children, she merely prioritized her response in a totally reasonable way given the circumstances (after all, they filed the report first but then the director called them). (c) Finally, OP asked for quick advice & support as she & her family had to take action immediately, and I don't think it's necessarily fair to criticize her family's decision after the fact -- Hers is a hard place to be in right now.

I totally agree with this. APtoddlermama, I think you may have missed the part where the OP DID report. And as someone who has worked in a few different quality NAEYC centers across the country, I can tell you without a doubt that any director I have ever worked would fire the employee. No second chances, no wishy-washy half assed "training", no trying to hide it or cover it up. ANY hint of child abuse or even speaking to children inappropriately would not be tolerated at all. There are way more good people out there than bad.