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Should we get food stamps? - Page 8

post #141 of 181
"A 15 yr. resentment over a person buying lobster on food stamps sounds highly irrational to me."

Yes. It's totally irrational. I am not claiming otherwise.

To address another poster: I am glad that you know somebody IRL who is making a living wage as a cashier. In the time and place that I was doing it, it was a minimum-wage nightmare and the pregnant women (who worked until the last possible second) all qualified for WIC. Which they then had to redeem at their workplace. It sucked.
post #142 of 181


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by number572 View Post

I was a cashier in high school and I don't know if WIC has changed, but it used to be a sort of complicated way to purchase groceries.  We had to check the items (weight, type of food, a lot of restrictions etc) against a list or something, item by item, and then scan it.  Anyway, I remember the WIC customers looking like they wanted to crawl under the conveyor belt when a line of other customers would start forming behind them, complete with watch checking, loud sighs, eye rolling.  Just rude.  I mean, if someone is truly in need of assistance, chances are they have a lot of stress about their situation in the first place.  No need to add to anyone's tough times.

 

It does sound helpful if some sort of free nutritional classes could be offered with the FS (or even without) or some other way to help people learn how to get more nutrition for their FS amount... but I can also imagine that if heavier restrictions were put on FS, that there would still be that same rude impatience from people waiting in line while the cashier and FS customer figured out which items pass and which ones cannot be purchased.


 

I run a neighborhood center and we work with the local extension program that does supply nutrition education classes to families, we even offer them at my center. Yet there are many barriers to why people make less than healthy food choices. I know in my area that lack of access to transportation to get to full service market is a barrier, in some cases lack of storage space. To cook nutritious and tasty foods from scratch can require more space to store necessary items. Add in if you are working then (which many people who get food stamps are, then you have a shortage of time. Yeah beans can be cooked in a crockpot but that requires a crockpot that you may or may not have the money to buy, heck you may need a counter to store it on.

 

As far as the lobster, you never know the reasons why that lobster is being purchased, maybe they are eating a few extra rice and bean meals to have it. Or if you live in state like I do Maine where at times lobster is cheaper than ground beef (this past summer I could get 2 1.5lbs lobsters for $10) that may be the reason they were purchasing it. Funny thing is we never know yet we feel compelled to comment and we shouldn't.

post #143 of 181

Yeah that's really true.  To cook, a person needs pots and pans, gas or electric stove or oven or crock pot like you said, somewhere to wash the dishes, utensils and a knife. Somewhere to store food and a reliable fridge if the food requires refrigeration.   Let alone have the time for cooking and washing up, after homework and visiting with the kids.  A lot really can be taken for granted if you already have all of that "stuff" and can have the luxury of cooking from scratch for your family.  :(


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shayinme View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by number572 View Post

I was a cashier in high school and I don't know if WIC has changed, but it used to be a sort of complicated way to purchase groceries.  We had to check the items (weight, type of food, a lot of restrictions etc) against a list or something, item by item, and then scan it.  Anyway, I remember the WIC customers looking like they wanted to crawl under the conveyor belt when a line of other customers would start forming behind them, complete with watch checking, loud sighs, eye rolling.  Just rude.  I mean, if someone is truly in need of assistance, chances are they have a lot of stress about their situation in the first place.  No need to add to anyone's tough times.

 

It does sound helpful if some sort of free nutritional classes could be offered with the FS (or even without) or some other way to help people learn how to get more nutrition for their FS amount... but I can also imagine that if heavier restrictions were put on FS, that there would still be that same rude impatience from people waiting in line while the cashier and FS customer figured out which items pass and which ones cannot be purchased.


 

I run a neighborhood center and we work with the local extension program that does supply nutrition education classes to families, we even offer them at my center. Yet there are many barriers to why people make less than healthy food choices. I know in my area that lack of access to transportation to get to full service market is a barrier, in some cases lack of storage space. To cook nutritious and tasty foods from scratch can require more space to store necessary items. Add in if you are working then (which many people who get food stamps are, then you have a shortage of time. Yeah beans can be cooked in a crockpot but that requires a crockpot that you may or may not have the money to buy, heck you may need a counter to store it on.

 

As far as the lobster, you never know the reasons why that lobster is being purchased, maybe they are eating a few extra rice and bean meals to have it. Or if you live in state like I do Maine where at times lobster is cheaper than ground beef (this past summer I could get 2 1.5lbs lobsters for $10) that may be the reason they were purchasing it. Funny thing is we never know yet we feel compelled to comment and we shouldn't.

post #144 of 181

This thread is giving me the heebie-jeebies. Honestly. I guess I too often forget that I've fortunately been able to immerse myself in a community that has made a point of supporting the true autonomy and physical/emotional welfare of those who have found themselves in the poor and working class. 

 

The government is not "of the people" any more than it is "for the people". "The people", as it were, come from varying degrees of (economic, social, etc) privilege, or lack there of. They do not have the support of their neighbors because their neighbors have been marketed a very yucky image of poor people. They're lazy. They have poor priorities/values. They leech off everybody else. I am not a professor in economics, but suffice it to say that there are a lot of poor people in your town. If you know them and love them, you want to help them. If you don't know them or love them (or if you are uncomfortable with them), you want to critique them. If you are them, you just want support. You want freedom and, in general, no amount of feeding into the system will get you that support. It just exhausts you.

 

 

Fourteen percent of our tax dollars go to all the "safety net programs" that exist in the United States. A relatively small portion of this is food stamps, which are only available to people that "meet the requirements". Whose requirements? A bunch of (primarily) white dudes in a room, making decisions for people they've never met, who generally come from a completely different pool of experiences. The largest portion of my tax dollars (twenty percent) go to war. Killing people. Killing families, even. Killing children, even. This is true and cannot be denied. A really gross reality, in my opinion.  Another pretty big portion of that money goes to bailing out banks (who turn around and fund coal and kill rural, poor communities, btw), subsidizing the production of unhealthy food to keep the working poor sick and addicted, but alive enough to do our dirty work and support a failing system that is literally puppeteered and engineered by the 1% at the top who profit from it. This is not run-of-the-mill "corruption" that can be done away with "reform". I really don't have the ability to vote these things away. I am an active community organizer and if I did, I would have already, but my peers and I are not wealthy enough to really lobby for a say in a system that has been engineered to oppress the "voting public". This is a travesty and I grieve that I am a slave to a state that simply does not have the best interests of myself and my neighbors at heart. Capitalism doesn't work. Not for the working person and not for the benefit of families and certainly not for the poor and oppressed in those countries we are occupying.

 

The worst part is how we are totally viscerally trained to react when someone is using "assistance". As if it's a personal offense by that person against everyone else. The government is killing people with your money every. single. second. Stop making disgusting looks at the "welfare mom" in the nail salon and make connections with the poor people in your community. Know that they come from different backgrounds than you and know that you don't know everything about them, their experience, their budgeting, their story. Know that the government makes money off of their manicure, and that more taxes are paid by more businesses/people as a result of their getting manicures. A person pays taxes when they buy something. How does this go over peoples' heads?

 

A person cannot be blamed for supposedly "exploiting" a system that is put in place explicitly to exploit them. Pitting slaves against each other is a pretty standard tactic of slave owners. If you don't think the government *owns* you, try to stop paying taxes that go places you don't agree with, or try voting against them. Or, for that matter, try to get them to listen to you without showing up at the white house without billions of dollars in payoff.

 

Food stamps are not charity. They're everybody's money pooled and used pretty explicitly to make money off of junk food and keep the working poor the working poor. Have you seen the WIC list? It's a huge advertisement for general mills and the dairy industry. The government created a separate program so that they could subsidize *branding* by huge corporations who will make bank on it.

 

I use food stamps. I use them to eat. I am going to raise a family as a single mother, in part because I choose to use them. I pick healthy foods because I have the luxury and privilege of the kind of education and exposure to information that led me to make those choices despite the government's hopes that I will spend them on the crap food that they put all over television and magazines and whatnot. I don't *need* food stamps. I could work more hours and drive myself to misery and get prescriptions for drugs to "fix" my resulting depression like the powers that be want me to. But it's not a sense of *entitlement* that led me to the choice to get food stamps. It's a no brainer. Much of my taxes go to war. This part comes back to me in the form of nourishment. I am not ashamed.

 

To those who feel that people should be using more "discretion" (ahem - shame) when using food stamps, all I have to say is that no matter how much you value the concept of a supposedly "small government", what you're promoting is hate and the demolition of freedom for the working person. Period.

 

If you qualify for foodstamps, get them. Buy what you can with them. Buy what you want with them. Eat.

 

Riseup !! 

post #145 of 181

sorry. double post. 

post #146 of 181

i heart habitat. joy.gif

post #147 of 181
Snap, Habitat, I think I heart you too!
post #148 of 181
Just a side note on the class idea. I know it sounds great to offer classes on nutrition, but that is something they already do with WIC. They offer classes on nutrition, healthy eating and breastfeeding. My WIC center even offers online classes where we can learn about the benefits of drinking lots of water and ways to cook vegetarian. For me, it is all no brainer stuff and is completely worthless. For other moms who may choose to eat less healthy diets, I think it is just something they put up with to get their checks. I really don't think additional classes will change everything and make the participants eat healthier.
post #149 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitat View Post


sorry. double post. 




 


That's ok - say it again, Habitat. You rock!

joy.gif
post #150 of 181

well said Habitat!

post #151 of 181

Habitat, great post, great points!  

 

It sort of sums up why FS have never appealed to me personally, even in times of going without any food at all for days and eating barley and broth for months and months, etc.  It's a (possibly irrational) matter of pride for me, I don't want to feel supported by a system I already feel quite a lot of distain towards.  Its a weird hang-up, I know.  And this thread has talked and talked again about all of the government funded schools and roads, etc... but in my mind it always comes back to the idea that it's not some big gracious government gift to it's public, we've all paid taxes for everything and wages are taxed, lottery winnings and every other sort of income is taxed... interest rates on student loans... we've all paid for those so called public services.  Anyway, I'm having trouble putting my feelings into a well worded post... but it causes great unease within me to think that the good old government would be thinking that they're doing me some sort of great favor by tossing a few hundred bucks worth of FS my way after they've taken SO much money from me over the years.  Bleh.  I'm happy that people who want it and need it can use it, they should, and without shame.

post #152 of 181

Habitat, that is probably one of the best posts I've ever seen. bow2.gif


Edited by ~Boudicca~ - 2/9/11 at 4:00pm
post #153 of 181

Thank you, Habitat. 

post #154 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by mar123 View Post

I find the argument that taking a deduction on mortgage interest being government assistance ludicrous.

 

I am simply keeping the money I have earned in that case, the government is not giving me money over and above what I have paid. Each year, I have paid the government tax money. Doesn't matter how many deductions I take, when all is said and done, I have contributed to the government coffers. I may contribute less, but that is NOT government assistance. They are not giving me anything. I am simply giving them less. They are not helping me out by letting me keep my OWN money, money I have worked hard for and earned.

 

When someone is on government assistance, the government is giving them something extra over and above what they have contributed. Yes, I used student loans to go to college, but I paid them back. The government didn't GIVE me anything- therefore that is not government assistance. (actually, when I went to college, I didn't use any of the government programs for loans- 30 years ago that was actually possible.)

 

As far as the OP, I think assistance programs are for those who need them. Short term, tough times, etc. Not something that is expected to be a life style. If the OP thinks her family truly needs this, she should apply. The very fact that she is agonizing over this shows she is not one who abuses the system.

 

I have heard the saying that government programs should be a safety net, not a hammock. I actually prefer the term trampoline- it should be something that helps you bounce right back to where you were or even get higher.



ITA.  Excellent post.

post #155 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by matey View Post

Just a side note on the class idea. I know it sounds great to offer classes on nutrition, but that is something they already do with WIC. They offer classes on nutrition, healthy eating and breastfeeding. My WIC center even offers online classes where we can learn about the benefits of drinking lots of water and ways to cook vegetarian. For me, it is all no brainer stuff and is completely worthless. For other moms who may choose to eat less healthy diets, I think it is just something they put up with to get their checks. I really don't think additional classes will change everything and make the participants eat healthier.

For some it won't change things but for some it will have an impact. At my center we started to focus on the kids, once a month a nutrition expert comes in and cooks with the kids and then then the parents come and eat the meal their kids helped prepare. While the family is eating, the educator talks about the meal, how to prepare it, etc. In many cases we find that exposing the kids to this stuff makes a world of difference. Instead of going home asking for a junky snack, they want to re-create the meal/snack they eat at our afterschool program. Unfortunately it can be hard to fund programs like ours but its just one way you can create change.
 

post #156 of 181

I have had to use them before. The money is there and we all pay for it and hope that people like yourself are the ones who get help when they need it

Food stamps were hard to get on. But I was surprised that after my husband went back to work full time with a good income they still offered to help us with some money. We decided against it because we knew we could get along. I find it odd that we never qualified for any help b/f but once we got on them they were willing to keep us on. We have also used a local food pantry b/f we got food stamps. They were very helpful and it was the only bway we could afford health INS

post #157 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekgolightly View Post

i heart habitat. joy.gif



yeahthat.gif

post #158 of 181

There are not people out there dying to adopt someone else's pets. So they will end up at a shelter, where your tax dollars pay for them. A bag of kibble at costco goes a long way, and is a minimal expense. I think that making her pets a permanent burden on someone else is not responsible if this is a temporary situation. buy cheap food at costco and get rid of cable.

post #159 of 181
I'm with Habitat.
post #160 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by matey View Post

Just a side note on the class idea. I know it sounds great to offer classes on nutrition, but that is something they already do with WIC. They offer classes on nutrition, healthy eating and breastfeeding. My WIC center even offers online classes where we can learn about the benefits of drinking lots of water and ways to cook vegetarian. For me, it is all no brainer stuff and is completely worthless. For other moms who may choose to eat less healthy diets, I think it is just something they put up with to get their checks. I really don't think additional classes will change everything and make the participants eat healthier.


Oh, I totally understand the problems with the idea of a nutrition class. I'm not thinking so much "nutrition," though as a program that would teach people how to shop better. In my fantasy, a program well-staffed with people who could actually go through the process of planning, shopping, storing with people would be an awesome way to help people to help themselves. As I said up-thread, the purpose of public assistance to me is to benefit society as a whole because we all benefit when people are well-fed, well-clothed, well-sheltered. Spending the money on helping people, rather than giving pat nutrition advice, to shop & cook to their tastes could be beneficial.

 

I see families of people who receive assistance for everything from housing to food to winter coats for their kids. Why? What's going on in those families that they cannot afford the basics? A winter coat at our consignment shop is $5. Shoes are around the same. If you cannot budget for $5 for a winter coat, then obviously you actually need help working on how you're spending your money, how to find more affordable housing, recovering from an addiction, help getting a job (and there ARE jobs in my area, help wanted signs are actually fairly plentiful here), whatever is causing the problem. The better benefit then is to help you navigate those things, rather than for us to pay for them indefinitely.

 

My family is working poor. I do get what it's like to grow up without a lot of things. I understand what it's like not to have the money for needed items. I just think there are better decisions that most people could make to help their situations. WRT the comments about proper cooking items, slow cookers can be purchased new for $10. Casserole dishes are easily in that same range. Over time, people can build up what they need. Heck I can think of plenty of things that don't require cooking that are super-healthy and fast. Even working minimum wage (which I completely agree isn't a living wage), people can begin to build up a typical supply of kitchen items. It just takes time and perseverance.