EPO and red raspberry leaf tea help tone uterus before vba3c

[tonttu]

Hi everyone ,

I was reading a few threads about the use of Evening primrose oil and red raspberry leaf tea . I heard , that it´s supposed to tone your uterus and may actually increase your chance of vbac ( I had 2cs , 2 nd and another cs) , because it tones and softens your uterus , making a scar less likely to rupture during labor .

Does anybody have experiences with it , how high a dosage should I take and when do I start (gest. age) ?

We are trying to get pregnant now , could I theoretically start taking the EPO now or is it too early ?

[tonttu]

Really nobody ????

[CookAMH]

I would just post on the regular pregnancy thread or birth and beyond since it's a great tonic, VBAC or not. I have never heard that RRL *softens* the uterus but it does indeed tone it and can greatly reduce lochia after the birth and helps the uterus contract efficiently.

In short, many start drinking RRL tea halfway through pregnancy, and take EPO when one is full term to start ripening the cervix.  I did both last pregnancy and labor went well though I had an unnecessary c/s. I plan to take EPO orally and vaginally again later on in this pregnancy.

[CookAMH]

I've been thinking about this more lately, after my doula mentioned the main reason that cytotec is disastrous for VBACs. Since it softens the cervix, it (cytotec) can have the same effect on the scar (NOT good).

I then wonder, does EPO do the same thing? I don't think there is a lot out there about this. I read of several using it and having great labors but that obviously doesn't mean you aren't upping your risk. At the same time, the risk is so small anyway that even doubling risk is still quite minimal.

Others have said that EPO acts the same as sperm, so if so, I'd be fine using it. So, is there a difference in chemical prostoglandins and natural, such as sperm and EPO? Seems like it. I'll keep considering whether I'll use it.

[tonttu]

I could imagine , that sperm and EPO , being naturally occuring substances , will not "force" the body to react with contractions , but rather stimulate , what is already there .

We had sex A LOT in the end with my last baby and I did not go into labor , so unlike Cytotec , which will force the body to contract , whether it wants to or not , I believe (and that´s just my gutt feeling) , that it will simply make things easier by softening things up and so on . So , I could actually imagine , that it will iimprove the chance of a vbac , since the uterus is already "loosened up".

I hope , you understand , what I´m trying to say .

[dezprincesscc]

The problem with Cytotec (and pit) is not softening of the uterus, it is hyperstimulation. Worse with Cytotec is that while pit can be turned off and has a short half life, Cytotec is swallowed or inserted in the vagina and dissolved, so it can't be turned off or removed.

[AlexisT]

Originally Posted by dezprincesscc 

The problem with Cytotec (and pit) is not softening of the uterus, it is hyperstimulation. Worse with Cytotec is that while pit can be turned off and has a short half life, Cytotec is swallowed or inserted in the vagina and dissolved, so it can't be turned off or removed.

For labor in general, yes. But the reason Cytotec increases the UR rate is that it works on scar tissue. The same thing is true for Cervidil, which can be removed. Pit is least risky because it doesn't work on the cervix, it just causes contractions.

Theoretically, EPO might soften scar tissue. The amount of prostaglandin involved is much less, though.

[CookAMH]

Originally Posted by AlexisT 

For labor in general, yes. But the reason Cytotec increases the UR rate is that it works on scar tissue. The same thing is true for Cervidil, which can be removed. Pit is least risky because it doesn't work on the cervix, it just causes contractions.

Theoretically, EPO might soften scar tissue. The amount of prostaglandin involved is much less, though.

I agree with this, and I think it's a lesser known aspect of cytotec about the softening of the scar. YES, there is overstimulation of the uterus since it's a chemical, but I don't think it's often discussed about it's impact on the scar that can have a specific impact on VBACs.

I'm thinking too about the EPO being a much lower strength and it being in the category of sperm as opposed to things like cytotec.

[claudi81]

I was wondering about the same thing...I have heard and used castor oil packs and EPO to help or avoid problems with adhesions after surgery..I read stories that it sure does loosen up or even break those adhesive strigs..that in cpombination with Myo massage have worked great on me...so I have not come to any terms weather it can actually work on your c-=section scar.

My thought is if you insert it in your vagina towards the end it will help your cervix get soft and efface...it should be fine and since we have sex and produce prostaglandins in our own natural way in our body...it will just enhance its effect, however I believe with everything its important to do it in moderation...a prostaglandin gel has been used on me to induce labor with my first..it caused hyperstimulation and no effects on my cervix at all...that gel and the amount they used was the probloem...I do not know how many EPO caps I have to swallow and insert to get such a bad effect..??

With my last pregancy (ended in another non sence c-section) I took a cap my mouth and one vag at 37 weeks and effeced to 80% 1cm within a week or two, my c-section scar was fine OB said and I healed pretty fast I believe that it did help with the healing process cause it was just amazing how good I healed ....

I do not know..what do you think?  Oh and It did not trigger contraction or preterm labor in my case I went to 41 weeks before being talked into another c-section ugh....Therefor I was more concerned how it may influence our hormon levels needed to go into labor...since it is supposed to baLANCE HORMONES IN menopause woman, not sure if it had something to do with that but no matter what I did I just could not trigger labor to start??!!

[tonttu]

That´s exactly , what I´m thinking , too , that it may not soften the scar in terms of rupture risk , but since it is a natural substance , that it will make it softer and more flexible in terms of elasticity , so that it can withstand the pressure of contractions better .

I don´t believe , that it would trigger labor to start , rather that it helps the body to make labor easier and more effective , once the body is ready to give birth . At least , that´s the conclusion , I´ve come to after reading everybody´s post !

[CookAMH]

I tend to lean that way too, with how you summed it up.

[claudi81]

when is the best time to start it though??? Last pregnancy I started it at 37 weeks and went over my due date by a week then had a RCS..I will hit 35 weeks in a few days, I was wondering when to start it oraly and when insert it...I bought 1000mg caps at the store...

I read about taking them orally at 36 weeks one per day then insert one at night at 37 weeks..but that was just one of many options....what do you guys think??

[CookAMH]

You could do that (orally at 36, then vaginally at 37). Then bump it up to a couple in each place around 38 or 39 weeks.