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dating a "sensitive" man - Page 14

post #261 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Lily View Post

even if you're back with him or things have gotten worse. We are here for you either way.
 


This is so important.  Abusers want us to feel ashamed and cut off from support.  We are here and will remain here.  We have your back.

post #262 of 277

Still no word? Hmmmm, very worried.

post #263 of 277

Me too! I keep looking for an update. OP, I hope you and your kids are safe.

post #264 of 277

Psycho is as psycho does.  Amen.

post #265 of 277

?? You mean him or her or both?

post #266 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmorin01 View Post

?? You mean him or her or both?


Him. Him. He's the psycho.

Or at least I think so based on only having heard her side of the story.
post #267 of 277


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimim View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by lmorin01 View Post

?? You mean him or her or both?




Him. Him. He's the psycho.

Or at least I think so based on only having heard her side of the story.


 

At this point, I say 'both'. If psycho is as psycho does, and  *IF* the OP is systematically unable/willing to take charge of her own life (even with support and others doing free therapy for her), then.....I may be going UAV in this, but I've got to call a spade a spade.

 

 

(ETA the ever-important word "if", which I did not mean to leave out in the first place).


Edited by AttunedMama - 4/24/11 at 3:56pm
post #268 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by AttunedMama View Post


 


 

At this point, I say 'both'. If psycho is as psycho does, and  *IF* the OP is systematically unable/willing to take charge of her own life (even with support and others doing free therapy for her), then.....I may be going UAV in this, but I've got to call a spade a spade.

 

 

(ETA the ever-important word "if", which I did not mean to leave out in the first place).


You've never been involved with someone like this have you?

I have. It does make you crazy. I'm incredibly ashamed of how I allowed myself to be treated, for continuing with this person for as long as I did, for repeatedly allowing myself to be manipulated into reconciliations, and for being capable of caring about somebody with so little respect for me, but he is the one who created the situation. I failed to protect myself from it and participated in it with him, but I didn't instigate it. If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you will see that it's the same story for the OP, who needs support and not name calling.
post #269 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimim View Post


You've never been involved with someone like this have you?

I have. It does make you crazy.


Oh man, it made me so crazy I didn't know which was up let alone down!  It's a cycle thats incredibly hard to break, and on average it takes a woman 7 TIMES to leave an abusive relationship permanently.  7.  Thats ALOT of times, and really is indicative of how crazy making the cycle is I think.  It's really hard to see someone go through it, and not blame them, b/c on the outside its so obvious - but when you're in the middle of it everything is so unclear.  It's so hard to see whats going on, and so hard to understand why abusers act the way they do - b/c it doesn't make sense!  It's as though they are completely inhuman. 

 

I don't blame the OP though - she is not the one creating the abusive cycle, its her (hopefully) ex boyfriend.  Blaming the victim is also one way that society unintentionally perpetuates the cycle of abuse.  Instead of getting angry with the abuser, people get angry with the victim for putting up with his crap.  It's a pretty human response, but the more human response would be to get angry with the abuser so that they know they can't get away with what they're doing. 

post #270 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimim View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by AttunedMama View Post


 


 

At this point, I say 'both'. If psycho is as psycho does, and  *IF* the OP is systematically unable/willing to take charge of her own life (even with support and others doing free therapy for her), then.....I may be going UAV in this, but I've got to call a spade a spade.

 

 

(ETA the ever-important word "if", which I did not mean to leave out in the first place).




You've never been involved with someone like this have you?

I have. It does make you crazy. I'm incredibly ashamed of how I allowed myself to be treated, for continuing with this person for as long as I did, for repeatedly allowing myself to be manipulated into reconciliations, and for being capable of caring about somebody with so little respect for me, but he is the one who created the situation. I failed to protect myself from it and participated in it with him, but I didn't instigate it. If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you will see that it's the same story for the OP, who needs support and not name calling.
 


It's very complicated to try to understand how women end up in these situations.  I know that from the outside looking in, you can't fathom why someone would stay and keep being drawn back in, but it happens to savvy, intelligent, strong women  every. single. day.  It isn't because they are desperate, and it isn't because they have done something wrong.  We can not further victimize people like this, we need to place the blame firmly where it lies, and that is solely in the hands of the abuser.

 

It takes time to realize that the pattern IS a pattern, you keep seeing the good person- and you know we all have a bad day here or there.  Abusers manipulate everything, they undermine any strength a victim has, they are crazy-making.  Fir anyone to blame the victim simply supports the abuser's statements that if the victim was only different/better, he wouldn't have to be this way. 

 

For people so completely disempowered, it is just as bad when the people wanting to help tell her they know her life better than she does.  We can tell her what we see, and we can tell her we will be here when she is ready to make decisions, but to judge her for this situation is completely unacceptable. 

 

One of the biggest reasons women never ask for help is because they are ashamed, and they fear the judgments cast when they make known whats happening. To be judged as weak or wrong for someone else's behavior is simply intolerable.  It's no different than blaming the rape victim for wearing a skirt or being out after dark. It is not now and never will be, her fault that this man is behaving badly. 

 

post #271 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by insidevoice View Post

to blame the victim simply supports the abuser's statements that if the victim was only different/better, he wouldn't have to be this way.  

The whole post is great, but I want this repeated.
post #272 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by insidevoice View Post


It's very complicated to try to understand how women end up in these situations.  I know that from the outside looking in, you can't fathom why someone would stay and keep being drawn back in, but it happens to savvy, intelligent, strong women  every. single. day.  It isn't because they are desperate, and it isn't because they have done something wrong.  We can not further victimize people like this, we need to place the blame firmly where it lies, and that is solely in the hands of the abuser.

 

 

 

To the bolded - SO RIGHT!  Domestic violence is the ONE thing that spans ALL socio-economic classes, ALL races, ALL cultures, ALL education levels, ALL professions - every single woman out there is at risk for domestic violence.  ALL of them.  I was in law school, dating a law student, when I was abused.  Of all people, of all places.  It happens to people in every type of situation.
 

 

post #273 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by insidevoice View Post




 

 

One of the biggest reasons women never ask for help is because they are ashamed, and they fear the judgments cast when they make known whats happening. To be judged as weak or wrong for someone else's behavior is simply intolerable.  It's no different than blaming the rape victim for wearing a skirt or being out after dark. It is not now and never will be, her fault that this man is behaving badly. 

 



This. The abuser wants the victim to feel ashamed, and that it is all somehow her fault.  That is one of the main reasons I stuck around with my abuser for as long as I did. I felt some responsibility for his craziness and rages. It took a while, but for the most part, I know better now. I wish the OP well, and hope that she is safe. 

 

post #274 of 277


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimim View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by AttunedMama View Post


 


 

At this point, I say 'both'. If psycho is as psycho does, and  *IF* the OP is systematically unable/willing to take charge of her own life (even with support and others doing free therapy for her), then.....I may be going UAV in this, but I've got to call a spade a spade.

 

 

(ETA the ever-important word "if", which I did not mean to leave out in the first place).




You've never been involved with someone like this have you?

I have. It does make you crazy. I'm incredibly ashamed of how I allowed myself to be treated, for continuing with this person for as long as I did, for repeatedly allowing myself to be manipulated into reconciliations, and for being capable of caring about somebody with so little respect for me, but he is the one who created the situation. I failed to protect myself from it and participated in it with him, but I didn't instigate it. If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you will see that it's the same story for the OP, who needs support and not name calling.
 


Yes, I have, I talk about it a lot on this thread. I don't consider it 'name calling' to acknowledge a psychotic break. I don't think I could be misconstrued as stating that her changing her behavior could change him, make him sane. She does have a choice to remain within the psychosis, the crazy, the madness, whatever you want to call it. She does have the power to get to work on figuring out what is wrong within, what vulnerabilities she posesses (probably none of which are her 'fault'). That is how to actually heal, to reinforce and redefine life so that being roadkill to dudes like this is no longer an option.

 

I don't think endless divisions ("He's psycho, She's not") are necessarily serviceable.They are both seriously messed up, in different ways that create a mega-fused coin of double-sided crazy coin.  I don't need to convince any of y'all to agree, I see what I see and it's just one way of interpreting the events that have been described. I don't involve some bad-girl stamp in this; I've been psycho for psycho-puffs too, and I still love myself anyway.

 

post #275 of 277

I don't think calling someone a victim is helpful either, really.  It can make some people feel weaker than they are already feeling.  I see what Attuned is saying.  I was in an emotionally abusive relationship for a while once.  And I didn't see it for what it was for most of the relationship, simply b'c it was everything I was told about myself while growing up in an emotionally and verbally abusive household.  "Everything wrong must be my fault right? b'c I'm so flawed, I know this b'c this is how I've always been treated." was my loop.

 

Getting to the point of being able to see that going within when things are just too frustrating, sad, or dangerous, in order to make the connection that it IS possible to build the courage and self worth to finally leave the relationship may take one person longer than another, but neither is psych or a victim.  Just someone who hasn't yet realized that they are worth a better situation.  And that they are strong enough to get out.  I'm not addressing someone who is with an extreme psychotic and is threatening your life if you leave.  I'm addressing people in abusive relationships and keep getting emotionally beat down but stay.  If someone is in a life threatening situation, I don't have direct experience with that, so I can't claim that I know how that feels.

post #276 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by number572 View Post

I don't think calling someone a victim is helpful either, really.  It can make some people feel weaker than they are already feeling.  I see what Attuned is saying.  I was in an emotionally abusive relationship for a while once.  And I didn't see it for what it was for most of the relationship, simply b'c it was everything I was told about myself while growing up in an emotionally and verbally abusive household.  "Everything wrong must be my fault right? b'c I'm so flawed, I know this b'c this is how I've always been treated." was my loop.

 

Getting to the point of being able to see that going within when things are just too frustrating, sad, or dangerous, in order to make the connection that it IS possible to build the courage and self worth to finally leave the relationship may take one person longer than another, but neither is psych or a victim.  Just someone who hasn't yet realized that they are worth a better situation.  And that they are strong enough to get out.  I'm not addressing someone who is with an extreme psychotic and is threatening your life if you leave.  I'm addressing people in abusive relationships and keep getting emotionally beat down but stay.  If someone is in a life threatening situation, I don't have direct experience with that, so I can't claim that I know how that feels.

 

Thank you. This is not the Warsaw Ghetto, she's not HIS victim. She has a role to play, which is taking care of herself. She is profoundly confused, so much so that she's risking her minor childrens' connection to life (their mother) to keep playing the game. That is her choice. I think 'psycho' is flippant, but fitting. And again, I don't have a problem to self-apply it either. I have talked here extensively about the Abuser in my past. I knew that I had to fix me. I didn't just go 'Oh, well, I guess I keep taking him on. I don't know what to do!!!!'. Well, I knew, like many here have told Darcy, exactly what to do: Cut contact, get to a therapist, read up on abuse. It really is that simple, as a starting place. And even if someone does just ONE of those three things, it's a start. The OP does not indicate interest in going to counseling, reading up, or cutting contact. Therefore, something wrong beyond this turd-dude's abusive tendencies is at play. The only person she has control of is herself, and she would rather spend time analyzing him, proving something to him, figuring out what wrong with HIM instead of what's wrong withIN. Writing three paragraphs about how jealous he is, how much he sucks, never saying 'Gosh, what do I need to do to fix me so I don't get hung up on this crap again?'

 

Probably, words like 'psycho' and 'victim' are both in need of constant review.
 

 

post #277 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by number572 View Post

I don't think calling someone a victim is helpful either, really.


I agree with this. I think we throw around the words "victim" and "abuser" much too easily. It grossly oversimplifies the matter. Flippantly calling anyone "psycho" isn't really acceptable either, but I think it's much more descriptive of this situation. This guy is clearly dangerous, manipulative, and, well, psycho, and has been for a long time. The OP is making bad choices in whom she allows in her life. Those two things are pretty different in severity.

I experienced something remarkably similar to the OP of this thread. I don't see myself as a victim, or him as my abuser. I was a willing participant and that is psycho. However, having someone call me psycho would not have been remotely helpful to me in extricating myself from the situation. It would have just convinced me even more that he was right about what he slowly convinced me to believe - that I was basically worthless and did nothing but cause problems and ruin things for everyone. So don't call me a victim, but don't call me a psycho either, although both are true on many levels.





But you can call him a psycho all you want. orngbiggrin.gif
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