childhood snoring, enlarged tonsils, what to do?

[Pumpkin_Pie]

DS will be 4 in March and has very large tonsils.  Every time I bring him to the doctor, they remark on how large they are, and when I brush his teeth, or he opens his mouth just right and I can get a good look, they seem absolutely HUGE.  He snores like an old man, and often wakes up snorting and coughing.  I have been doing some googling and am thinking he may have sleep apnea. 

How on earth do they diagnose something like this in children?  Would he have to go to a sleep clinic for a sleep study?  There is no way he would sleep someplace else, especially without me.  I am terrified at the thought of him being put under to have his tonsils/adenoids out, but he is so cranky in the mornings, he has always had behavior issues which seem to be only getting worse as he gets older, he is almost impossibly to wake up every morning, and he is clearly not getting enough sleep.

Yikes!

Oh and his ped is ticked that I "skipped" his three year old well-child-visit and refuses to see him for anything other than an emergency unless I bring him in for his three year old check up.  His four year check up is due in only two months, so I feel like it is still to schedule a three year checkup now, but I am getting a little worried about the snoring.  Clearly something is not right with this poor kiddo.

[Siennaflower]

The coughing makes me think post nasal drip.  Has he ever been tested for allergies?  They can cause large tonsils too.

[Trigger]

My DD had the exact same problem, starting when she was about four.  We saw an ENT a couple of years later, who suggested waiting to see if she "grew into" her tonsils/adenoids; HOWEVER, when she started having episodes of sleep apnea (eight years old) he said it was definitely time for them to come out. (Besides, she was totally miserable from lack of REM sleep.) She had some unfortunate tummy issues with the anesthesia (which wouldn't happen nowadays, they typically give you anti-nausea drugs during surgery to counter this problem), and a difficult/painful recovery (stressing that every kid is very different), but she was SO much better and happier when she could sleep soundly through the night.

If your child is having episodes of apnea, I would get a referral to an ENT asap.  That's nothing to mess with.

[tylerdylan]

Children can't grow or develop (mentally) properly if they aren't getting the sleep they need.  People with sleep apnea are unable to reach the deep stages of sleep where growth occurs, plus they aren't well rested so have a harder time focussing and learning.  I agree with PP and recommend seeing an ENT.  The surgery was no big deal - my DS had it when he was 2.5 (severe sleep apnea and he couldn't swallow food - was only able to eat pureed food at 2.5 because his tonsils were so huge).  My DS has also had the sleep study done 3 times at a children's hospital.  I slept in the room with him and he was fine.  And my DS had been put under about 15 times now - the first few times were a little scary, but it's no big deal for us now.

[tanyalynn]

My daughter's tonsils got a lot smaller when we removed a couple foods from our diet, gluten and dairy for us, though it seems like it can be other foods for other kids.  I saw a lot of nice changes when we cut out those foods--she started napping again, at age 3.5 yrs (she's stopped around 2.5yo), she slept better at night, her digestion improved... probably a couple other things I'm forgetting.  The tonsils took the longest, it was a month before they were down to a normal size.  I've read of other kids having the same experience after removing food allergens (not IgE allergies, DD's are intolerances, we've never tested for them, I'm not sure which type of test would show them as an issue, I'm all but positive a regular allergist/IgE testing wouldn't show DD having any allergies), so I'd experiment there.  And maybe do some structural work, either a chiro or a DO who does cranial-sacral, to help the process along. 

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by tanyalynn 

My daughter's tonsils got a lot smaller when we removed a couple foods from our diet, gluten and dairy for us, though it seems like it can be other foods for other kids.  I saw a lot of nice changes when we cut out those foods--she started napping again, at age 3.5 yrs (she's stopped around 2.5yo), she slept better at night, her digestion improved... probably a couple other things I'm forgetting.  The tonsils took the longest, it was a month before they were down to a normal size.  I've read of other kids having the same experience after removing food allergens (not IgE allergies, DD's are intolerances, we've never tested for them, I'm not sure which type of test would show them as an issue, I'm all but positive a regular allergist/IgE testing wouldn't show DD having any allergies), so I'd experiment there.  And maybe do some structural work, either a chiro or a DO who does cranial-sacral, to help the process along. 

this.

and this just came to my inbox today:

http://www.pediatricsupersite.com/view.aspx?rid=80160

I tend to try and avoid procedures when there's a way around it, but under appropriate guidance and evaluation when necessary.  I have seen adenoids and tonsils get smaller when the underlying problem was treated.  There have been a few exceptions, but just about everyone sees a change.  The change is often enough to get you through to a growth spurt.  The challenge is in getting someone with knowledge to help you.  I also find that it's a better outcome if there are multiple modalities used.  I tend to use cell salts,  homeopathy, and CST.

But beyond that, I agree it does need to be addressed.  HGH is only secreted when you sleep properly.  If this is interfering with sleep I'd not wait.

[aim4balance]

I almost started a thread about this a few days ago.  Here is our journey so far with tonsils/adenoids/sleep apnea issues:

DS is 2.5, he started getting sick every 2 weeks back in Oct.  Every illness would bring significant sleep apnea (loud snoring, pauses between breathing, gasping for breath) which he had never had before.  Then after the illness the apnea would go away.  One time it did not after an episode of croup, so I used oral steroids, which did in fact stop it.  But at the next illness (strep throat) it came back.  The pediatrician said his tonsils were still getting smaller in between illnesses, so it was probably the adenoids.  I went to see an ENT who concurred, and also said that b/c the sleep apnea was mostly going away after the illnesses, and it was winter time when all kids get sick more, I should wait the winter out to see if the issue resolves itself.  He also said ds would have to go to a sleep clinic at a hospital first though before being diagnosed with apnea, and/or getting recommended for surgery.  In the meantime, I've talked to or read almost everything I can on the subject!!!  Sleep apnea really does disrupt child growth and behavior--if the apnea was significant (loud snoring, gasping breaths) you bet I would head to the sleep clinic to get things diagnosed.  It can even stunt a child's growth, make learning more difficult, etc, its all related to not getting enough REM sleep. 

Anyway--its clear, at this point, my ds's is only significant when he's sick, and the rest of the time its not.  So I'm trying a few different approaches to see if I can't improve his immune system and shrink his adenoids.  DS is getting elderberry syrup every day, and echinachea or astragalus (immune boosters).  However, side note--I've also read that things boosting the immune system can sometimes make the situation worse, since the tonsils/adenoids are part of the immune system, and they are actually doing their job and reacting when they enlarge.  For my ds though if I can keep illness at bay, the apnea also seems to stay at bay (i.e. I guess part of his immune system, the adenoids, are overreacting when he gets sick).  So we're natural methods first.  I also bought him a hepa air filter for his room (I definitely felt like I saw an immediate improvement with this); and we're seeing a chiropractor for him.  As for diet, I already limit his wheat intake.  He eats raw dairy so I haven't cut that out, but maybe I'll try it if all the above doesn't work to clear this once and for all.  My last resort will be a naturopath b/c of the cost, and maybe allergy testing since that is covered by insurance.  OH and I did notice that anytime his head is on a pillow he starts snoring a little bit; as long as he's flat on the bed without any pillows changing the elevation of his head he never snores. 

The chiro we see is wonderful.  She also had 2 sons with mild to major sleep apnea issues, and despite her being a very natural-minded doc in her approach, the issue did not resolve itself and her sons both had surgery.  So, I'm seeing that in terms of behavior and growth, that may have to happen.  I just truly wish there was more research being done into the causes of tonsillitis!!

I hope anyone that sees this thread and has success in treating it naturally responds, I'd love to learn more. 

S

[GuavaGirl]

I had large tonsils and had them removed when I was 13 or so .  They were just naturally always that way.  (so were my dads' and his were removed when he was a kid)    

I really wish my parents would have done it sooner.  Looking back I feel like it was a little neglectful of him not to do it.  (I was raised by my dad, and when my mom moved back she saw it was a problem and took care of it.)  It made it a lot harder to breath during PE and sports.  I always seemed to have a cold.  It made my voice sound so nasaly (adnoids).  Recovery was quick.  You can put a recorder by his bed or just in his room when he's sleeping and monitor him for a bit.  That's what my mom did.  

[Pumpkin_Pie]

Just a little update:  I had to go in to be seen by an on-call doc today for pink eye.  DS and I go to the same practice, and the woman I saw today is my favorite doc in the entire practice.  She said that weekend appointments are much more laid back than week days, so I asked her about DS's tonsils.  She took a quick peek in his throat and immediately wrote a referral for an ENT.  She said she would not be surprised at all if they needed to come out.  I explained his sleep issues, and she agreed that it was nothing to wait around for.  I was so grateful that she was so easy to talk to and was able to peek in his throat at my appointment.  Not looking forward to a potential surgery, but I would so love to get him some help. 

[2 girls]

Just want to say I am so glad to have found this thread while searching this topic. There is hardly any information out there, I'm glad to hear of other people searching for other options besides just removing them.  My 2.5 DD has been snoring for months and when this past month both girls where sick with sore throats I actually looked in their throats to find huge tonsils. the 5yo are not as big, and she has no problem breathing during sleep.

 It is so torturous listening to the younger one snore and having interrupted breaths.  The symptoms of that last illness have been gone for weeks and the tonsils are still really enlarged.  We do have an appointment with a specialist but it's not for another month and it's over an hour away to get to. I really don't just want to hear, "yep take em out." It'd be nice to look into what causes it might be and what alternatives are out there.... Just thank you to everyone who has shared their experience on this matter.

~e

[gabbyraja]

3 years ago I came to MDC looking for any alternative to tonsillectomy. My son's tonsils were enlarged, we did a sleep study, he had apnea, and everybody said they needed to come out. I knew they were an integral part of the body, just as is every part of the body, but I could find NO information about alternatives. So, I had them removed. The surgery went off without a hitch and he recovered quickly and easily. I wish to God I'd never done it.

That's when his real health concerns began. If I'd known then what I know now about how the body works, and how to HEAL it rather than treat symptoms, like the symptom of enlarged tonsils, I never would have even gone to see the man with the hammer. ("When you're holding a hammer everything begins to look like a nail"; when you're holding a scalpel...). But I felt desperate. I knew sleep was incredibly important and I had no knowledge of another way to fix the problem, and even on MDC, even in the archives, I couldn't find an alternative.

I now know that the tonsils are an extremely important part of the lymph system, helping to remove toxins, mucous, and dead cells (and countless other things) from the body. I know that they are enlarged because the body is in a literal fight for its life. I know that in order to fix the real problem you have to find the real problem, and the tonsils are not it. The tonsils are telling you there's a deeper problem. A problem that will be diabetes, cancer, an auto-immune disease or something else life-threatening in 30, 20 or 10 years because it was not fixed when the body was telling you it needed to be fixed. PLEASE do not ignore this flashing neon sign, or, even worse, simply remove the sign. Find the root of the problem and fix it. The tonsils are enlarged because they are actually helping your child try to cleanse his body and try to get back to homeostasis. Don't cripple him by removing one of his tools, without first trying to find and solve the true problem.

Tanyalyn's problem was one of ours, too. Food "intolerances". However, those, too, are only a symptom of the deeper problem. We have weakened adrenal glands, leaky guts, and heavy-metal toxicity. These seem to go in a circular manner; a chicken-and-the-egg process. Any of the 3 can cause, directly or indirectly, the other 2. I'm currently working on all 3 in myself and my family.

At the same time that the doctors were looking at my oldest son's tonsils they kept telling me that my now-4-year-old son's were even worse and would also need to come out. I absolutely refused. He was 2 at the time and just too little in my mind. Thank goodness I did. After 4 months of work on curing the diet, leaky gut, the allergies, the poor vitamin/mineral absorption/utilization, adrenal fatigue, and chelation I'm very happy to say his tonsils are decreasing in size, his snoring is decreasing, he's sick less often, he's GROWING (Yay!) and putting on weight, and the little cluster of grapes (swollen lymph nodes) he's had on the back of his neck for years is decreasing in size. His temperament is very even now, he's learning SO quickly, his coordination is better, and his strength is improving. I have yet to challenge his food intolerances w/o giving him digestive enzymes and vit C, but I have faith that they will also improve over time.

I'm so very sad that I let fear run me straight into the hospital with my older son, and I'll be fighting longer to get him back to health than with my second son. But at least his ordeal has led me to finding true health with my other children before I submit to chopping off the most visible signal that there is a problem (and thus the most visible signal that the problem is healing). Tanyalyn and Panserbjorne have held my hand on that road (which I'm still just beginning on, I'm sure), and I strongly encourage you to ask them for a hand up as well.

[lucypch]

My son had the same issues along with ear infections we saw an EMT who told us that this surgery would fix everything. WRONG now he has painful TMJ because his mouth was jammed open for so long. It hurts when he eats, yawns and screams. And as far as the mucus, well he still has ALOT of it. So no it didn't fix anything and only made things worse. I wish I would've looked into food an other allergens.
Greer everyday I wish I could turn back the clock. I'm so angry at the ENT.

[kythe]

My son had his tonsils and adenoids removed at age 3 and I have never regretted it.  If anything, I wish we had done it sooner because he had breathing problems and growth and development issues for a very long time.  I do wish I had been more prepared with what a hospital stay would be like for a young child, and that I had prepared him better for it.  They kept making it out like this is a "minor" procedure in the outpatient clinic, and never brought up the possibility he may need to be hospitalized afterward.  He ended up in the hospital for 2 days.  The nurses on the peds ward were very good and they also said they commonly see young children hospitalized after tonsillectomies, but of course I hadn't talked to them *first*.

Breathing problems are nothing to mess around with for young children.  Snoring is can be a sign of apnea (this can be deadly), and breathing issues can also cause a child to be very small, not growing well or gaining weight, and can cause developmental delays.  My son also had hearing issues related to his enlarged tonsils pressing against the lower part of his eustacian tubes.  He was a very late talker and needed speech therapy to catch up.

My son was a completely different boy after his surgery.  Even his voice sounded different, his tone no longer had a "gurgly" quality.  He started sleeping through the night (yes, at age 3), the snoring stopped and for the first time, he breathed quietly.  I mean, I would go in and check on him just to make sure he was alive just because I was so used to hearing his loud breathing.  He started speaking, he had a major growth spurt for the next couple of months following the surgery.

Even if you want to explore allergies as a non-surgical alternative, at least start seeing an allergist and make sure he is followed by a doctor.  I've never met anyone "in real life" who has successfully managed tonsil problems with non-surgical methods, though.

[kjbrown92]

Two of my kids were huge snorers and DS had enlarged adenoids. The ped was smart and said he didn't want to do anything until I figured out all his food intolerances. When we removed all the foods from both of them that we needed to, the snoring/mouth breathing went away, and the adenoids reverted back to normal size. I agree to test other theories out before surgery. It doesn't mean you won't necessarily still go with surgery, but if you take out the top contender (dairy) or the top 4 (dairy, gluten, soy, dairy) for a few weeks before you see the ENT, then you'll know more, and know that you checked out available options.

[Caneel]

We had the same problem with our DS when he was about 3.5 years old.  It was horrifying to look in his mouth. 

Neither our regular doctor or the ENT pushed for surgery, quite the opposite, they both said wait and see.

One time I wish we would have done prior to the ENT appointment was record DS while he was sleeping.  Like other's mentioned, true sleep apnea was everyone's major concern.  The first question our ENT asked was "did anyone tell you to record him? that would be most helpful to me."

In the end, we all decided to take a wait and see approach and in our case, within two months, all symtoms disappeared and never returned again.  I do, however, have a friend who did have the surgery for her daughter and it was (positively) life changing for that little girl.  She starting talking, walking, growing like a weed. 

[Monkeys Mom]

did you snoring stop. My daughter is 13 and has snored for years. The dr. said her tonsils are big but she is still growing and it could be fine. Up to us if we want surgery. The main issue is snoring.