SO how many of you...

[pearl2]

How many of you have been looked in the eyes by care providers in some capacity or another who have straight up told you that your VBAC would be disastrous and fail, only to go on to have a successful one? And the way the OB arrived at this revelation was to plug in some arbitrary numbers into a database that spit out a chance of success percentage? Or even if your VBAC was not successful, went on to do things the way you truly felt was the best? 

I've just had an awful morning at an appointment today; I am in need of a chorus of people chiming in so I can feel like part of some warrior earth goddess mama birthing roar-spirit force to push out all the ridiculous spewage from OBs. 

I am off to read amazing supportive and honest birth stories. I am okay with whatever outcome in these stories I seek out, but I need to know or reaffirm that so many women before me have been poo-poo'ed by the medical world regarding VBACs. 

Okay, off to come up with some amazing affirmations and I look forward to your replies. 

[neveraim]

I never gave anyone the opportunity to poo-poo my plans.  You need to talk to a new provider...one who is supportive of your wishes UNTIL there is a problem...not one who is going to discourage you in anticipation of a problem. 

feel free to read my birth story...  message me if you'd like a link.

I'm sorry you had a bad appoinment today. 

I had a VBA3C with an abnormal sacrum.  No one else would have given me the chance...and yes, after my first attempt at VBAC, I was told I would never birth vaginally...any size baby.  He was wrong.

[Lillitu]

I had a unnecceasary csection back in 1989 and was told that i was "lucky" that i had one with a multi-layer set of stitching at that time.

But then I was told I had a complete placenta previa at 19 weeks and a VBAC was not going to be possible, no way no how.

You know what? I had a vaginal birth. It wasn't exactly what I was looking for, as it was in a hospital rather than my birth center- but I did it. And my son is beautiful.

You can do it, mama!

[lyterae]

I am awaiting my HBAC and there are quite a few people that are close to me that have expressed thier desire that I go ahead and just book my c-section... We have opted to not share our plans with many people and to not discuss it with any one that isn't supportive.

I'm sorry that you had a bad appointment today - your provider should certainly be one person who is behind you 110%

[JFTB1177]

Hey Mama- ((((HUGS)))!

I had a HBAC 2 years ago... everyone told me it was DANGEROUS and I was putting mine and my baby's life in danger. My mom actually GASPED when I told her our plans. When I sent my DH to the OB office (I left at 20 weeks and switched to a MW) to get my medical records they hounded him and tried to tell him it was the worst idea in the world. At a party, a good friend's wife (who is a NICU nurse) actually stood and said (in front of others) that my baby was going to be either dead or retarded (!!!!!) and that I was nuts!

While my l&d wasn't "easy", baby arrived safe and sound (at home!) and I had 2 tiny tears.  That's it!

This time I have been planning a hospital VBAC (ONLY because the pain was hard for me and I want access to pain meds... many moms are not like me and deal with pain better so please don't even let this worry you!). Well guess what? I'm almost 42 weeks and people are already starting to turn on me again with the same cr@p. My doctor was going to strip my membranes (changed his mind when he found out I tested GBS+) or offer other ways to get labor going but completely changed at our last appt and said (no, really!) "We need to have an END date!". My doc office has already called twice to let me know they scheduled me for a c/s on Mon. I am not calling them back.

Don't be bullied with scare tactics! We are here for you mama!!

[lulismom]

i had a home birth VBAC, at age 40.  for a while, i got concurrent care with my home birth midwife and a certified nurse midwife.  my thought was that, in case of transfer, i wanted to have a relationship with someone in the hospital.  even though i liked my nurse midwife and i do believe she tries to be an advocate of natural birth, she was working in a mainstream medical office and delivering babies in a hospital- in that atmosphere and culture of fear, i think it is almost impossible for someone not to begin to reflect all of that fear back.  the nurse midwife convinced me to get an ultrasound using all sorts of fear tactics, and had a list of reasons why, though she would support a 'trial of labor', i was not necessarily the ideal candidate for a VBAC. the last straw came when i had routine blood work done and she also ordered genetic testing which i had not asked for or authorized.  then, when it turned out i am a cystic fibrosis carrier, she called me and recommended genetic counseling and.....well, you can imagine.  i was 5 months pregnant.  at that point, i just stopped the concurrent care.  my home birth midwife had complete faith in me and my body to deliver my baby naturally, at home, and that was the kind of energy i wanted to surround myself with.  the statistics for VBAC are clear- it is the safest way for most mom's to birth their babies.  you can do it!  surround yourself with support, even if it's just the 'virtual' kind.  hugs to you, mama!

[pearl2]

THANK YOU EVERYONE for your support and for sharing your experiences. 

I have since discussed the appointment in depth with my horrified midwife who was nothing but support, as well as my doula and another friend. 

I started immediately writing affirmations I KNOW to be true, and I want to share them with you to at least give back to someone, because maybe my words will inspire others like yours have inspired mine. 

Here is my working affirmation list so far:

My uterus is strong.
My pelvis is aligned through weekly chiropractic care.
My placenta is in a great location.
I do not hemorrhage due to a physical issue.
My body knows how to dilate and efface.
My baby is in an optimal position to come down the birth canal and out into our arms.
My baby is squishy and robust.
My body is designed to carry and birth babies.
This birth is nothing like the last birth and is a separate, independent event.
I am choosing to birth in the most supportive and safe environment possible, at my house.
I have total trust in my health care providers.
I have an amazing supportive husband.
I have a supportive doula who believes in me.

 

 

 

 

Okay. I have my white-light force field back in full action, if not shining brighter. I am ready to speak more details about the appointment.

 

My midwife prefers you have a consultation with an OB at week 36 with Hospital X Maternal Fetal Medicine OBs to sign the paperwork saying you understand risks/benefits using an OB from her backup practice, since she is an independent CNM. Hospital X is supposed to be the most natural birth-friendly hospital in the area, which is why she operates through them. I really wasn't comfortable going to the appointment anyway, but went knowing I probably would have the uterine rupture card pulled on me. 

 

It was way worse than that. 

 

I walked in, sat down, and the OB immediately got my midwife's name incorrect and thought it was another one who used to work with Hospital X and left to start her own homebirth practice. I had to say, No, I was working with my midwife. Then she started spitting out words and everything she said after that made me feel like she was talking about how one would discuss maggoty produce left for 6 months in a pool of sour milk. 

 

We went over my record from my last C-section, which is in the system's computer. I realized they don't have my birth center records of my whole pregnancy since I was a transfer from the freestanding birth center, just the surgical records. There are no surprises: got to 9cm, 100% effaced, baby remained at -1 station the entire time, it had been 42 hours since water had broken, and that's when the decision for the C-section was made. Technical reason was failure to descend with clear, copious notes about her being stuck in the canal in her malposition with her hand on her head.

 

She tells me I was in labor way too long and that I dilated too slowly. I said, but I got to 9 and was 100% effaced. See, it says right there her head arm were in a position so that her head was starting to mold in the birth canal and was wedged in there. She said it didn't matter and that since she was over 8 pounds that I was not able to birth such a big baby and that she would never have come out in the first place. I said, but SHE GOT STUCK DUE TO HER HAND UP NEAR HER FACE, not because she was an "enormous 8-pound baby" and got wedged in my narrow hips (ha! 'narrow' is not anywhere near my hips). Her heart rate was fine; she was never in distress. I said her labor is unique and there is no indication to expect this baby will follow the same path. 

 

Cue her epic cat butt face mouth formation!

 

I was tired of correcting and arguing with her, so I moved on and asked the only question I still wanted to know from the last birth: Why did I bleed 1200ccs of blood and have to have a blood transfusion? Do my records say what caused the bleeding? She said it was just due to normal surgery. I said, so I do not have a hemmorhaging problem or a blood clotting condition, my placenta wasn't retained, everything is fine with the anatomy? It was basically the OB's fault? She said, no, there's no indication that your body caused the bleeding. That's all I wanted to know, really. 

 

I say, what about uterine rupture risk? She examined my scar. She did say since my scar looked exceptionally good it was not an issue other than the normal small risk. 

 

So we move on and she says, I'm going to pull up a website we use to give you an estimated percentage based on a NIH VBAC study that will give you a success rate. 

 

Here it is in case you are curious:

http://www.bsc.gwu.edu/mfmu/vagbirth.html

 

She asks me my age, my height (I don't know, it's either 63 or 64 inches) my weight (again, I don't know, so I give her an estimated number), my race, if I have had a vag birth or a vbac at all, and this is the one that really burned my biscuits--if c-section was due to arrest of dilation/progression. I can't believe they lump those 2 together. Not once does she say, let's get your accurate height and weight right now. 

 

So my number spits out a 44.9%!!!!!! I was like, THAT IS TOTAL BULLSH!T. I could have said I was 64 inches and the number changes to 61%. That's how whack the predictor generator is!

 

She said to get an ultrasound so she could see if there were any placental or scar tissue issues, and to get an estimated weight of my "giant baby." I am rolling my eyes inside so hard because ultrasounds are notorious for being off in weight, and I know she is dying to pull the big baby card on me. 

 

The silver lining of this whole visit was the ultrasound tech. I had her last ultrasound for DD #1 and she is kind, gentle, amazing, and has had 6 babies naturally and breastfed all of them, and truly was sent there to be with me that day to help me through. Baby looks great, is "measuring" right at 35 weeks and some days, was already 6 lb 4 oz estimated to weigh between 8-9 pounds at birth, heart beat was great, kidneys looked good, just the right amount of amniotic fluid, was head down, placenta is in a great location, no scar tissue issues, etc. 

 

I go back into the office where doc says, "See? Your baby's stomach is already measuring at 84 percentile, which means she'll probably be so big that she'll get dystocia if you try to birth her. (Then she looks me up and down like I am up for auction at a meat market). You look overweight and all your overeating is going straight to her stomach. Based on your failure to dilate and descend combined with only a 44.9% success rate, you should go schedule your C-section with the front desk."

 

So not only does she insult me, but she called me fat. AND my baby fat. 

 

At this point I have already gone to my happy place where I just have to fake it 'til I make it out of there intact and in one piece lest I strangle her throat and start shoving nearby office supplies up her nose. My midwife was horrified and had no idea that I was going to be thrown under the bus so badly and was livid of how unprofessional and rude the OB was, apologized to me for having me go, and just talked to me until I calmed down. She said if she truly felt I was at such a low percentage for success, then she would have risked me out at our first appointment. She reassured me that I am a wonderful candidate to homebirth, let alone VBAC, because my baby was stuck and the next birth will be nothing like the first. She said the dystocia due to a huge stomach was the dumbest thing she had ever heard. 

 

So THAT, my friends, was one of the most ridiculous appointments I've ever had. I am now proceeding with even more confidence that my body knows what to do, and I just feel sorry for that OB that she doesn't look at individual people's experiences and relies so heavily on such a flawed generator to advise people to get sliced up for no good reason. 

 

Not once did she practice true consultation/medicine. She just used one study plus her own feelings toward the situation to tell me her opinion, not a true evidence-based individualized care plan for my particular labor. If I had not been in such a good headspace or trusted my body as much as I did and still do, I can only imagine I'd be signing up for the c-section and deciding it wasn't worth it. Thank goodness for being even one bit educated and/or trusting my gut that she was a quack!

 

Maybe the whole point of this experience will be to share my story so someone else will not be strongarmed into making decisions based on such quackery. 

 

 

e.t.a. A link to my birth story to read about the 42-hour labor experience: http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1105463/hannah-claire-s-3-in-1-birth-novella

[ChasingFour]

YES!  Two nurses actually laughed at me when I told them i didnt want another c-section and that I wanted a VBA2C.  I had a fabulous home birth VBA2C 20 months ago and I'm planning another one in 3 months! 

[wjey]

Nice calculator.  What a riot (except fot the fact that people actually buy into that baloney!)!  Here I sit nursing my 50.5% chance of a VBAC, who arrived with her hand up by her face, firmly grasping her cord, which was twisted around her neck twice.  Sure that kept her from being easy to push out, but she certainly did arrive the natural way, after my OB told me that it just was not to be and without discussion at my first prenatal appointment threw me in the repeat C-Section bag.  Needless to say, I found other care, though it took me 7 months (while I concurrently saw the OB just for checkups and refused to ask questions or discuss my plans - smile and nod).  There was no point in discussing anything with the doctor, since the stance of the practice had been set up at the first appointment. 

[sharr610]

My chance according to said calculator is 36.3% and I had a very successful VBAC.  

I am a big lady who had an 11 pounder the first go round.  Big mamas and big babies are factors in the VBAC success modules, BUT they aren't the only factors.  Be healthy, be vigilant about positioning, and eat well (all things that under the care of a midwife I am sure you are doing already) and in my opinion, you can overcome any statistic.  My first labor failure to descend, super long, got to 9cm, 100% effaced ended in horrid csection, was followed up by a 7.5 pounder, 4 hour active labor, less than an hour of pushing awesomeness.  

YOU have control over your VBAC.  You and you alone.  Your doctor may have access to calculators and statistics, but YOU are not a statistic.  You are a woman with free will and many many things in your control that can affect your VBAC success.  Just take her little poopoo party she gave you as an opportunity to prove her wrong.

GO Mama, go!

[lil_stinkyfeet]

According to the calculator I have an 87% chance of having a sucessful VBAC, I guess that's good! lol

[tonttu]

I had 2 cesareans , the first necessary , the second not . Then I got pregnant again , when my youngest was 18 months old and EVERYONE told me , that it would be near impossible to have a vbac and some people even asked , why I don´t go for the safe option ? (Meaning of course repeat c/s) My answer was "I am going for the safe option , a vbac" Evil , I know

So , after completely shutting out all the negative comments about the risk of rupture and everything  that can go wrong and focusing on all the things , that can go wrong with a RCS , I went into labor on my own at 38 weeks !

And after starting contractions on Friday night and a very slow , quite comfortable labor all the way to over 6 cm , on Tuesday night I went from that to 10 cm in what seemed like a few moments and my son popped out like a rocket . I really believe , that giving my body the time to do it´s work as slowly as it needed , was EXACTLY what was the right thing to do , plus I am absolutely convinced , that if I would have been in a hospital , that would have felt , I am progressing too slowly and given me meds to stimulate labor  , things would have gone wrong .

So , trust in yourself , and don´t allow any negative thinking . Of course , there is a chance , that it won´t work , but that can happen after having 10 kids naturally without problems , and of course there is a risk of tearing , but I had a small dehiscence(did I spell that right?) after my youngest son´s birth and went on to have another vbac 2 years and 9 months later without any problems , plus the only thing I felt was some pain on the left side , where it was for about 4 weeks after DS was born , like aching muscles .

And the risk of a cesarean short- and longterm is sooo much greater , after all it is MAJOR abdominal surgery

So , go for a supportive team , and ignore everybody else . You cannot educate everyone and honestly , some things are not worth fighting over , if somebody keeps bugging you too much , just tell them "I´ve researched this extensively and my medical team and I feel , that this is the safest option for the well-being of my baby and myself" Then turn around and walk away

Of course , one can argue that there is a percentage of ruptures and other things going wrong , but if that is for example 2 % , then that means , that there is a percentage of 98 % , that everything is going well

[Ms. B. Sprout]

Oh, pearl2, that is AWFUL! I am so sorry that you were treated in such a harsh, rude, disrespectful manner. I would be so upset if I was you -- and it would take some real mental work to get back into a happy place. It is criminal to shake a soon-to-be birthing woman's confidence in that way.

Can you spend some time talking this out in real life with some great VBAC supportive women?

A whole bunch of s to you, mama! You can do this! And I love your affirmations!

[kdaisy]

I had so many nay-sayers...(including a homebirth midwife)

But here she is anyway, my VBAC baby.

You can do it!  Here is my story, if it helps.

[ktgrok]

I never saw an OB during my second pregnancy, so never had a chance to have bad things said. But I heard plenty of horror stories from my family.  And my OB for my first baby said my c-section was becaues he was "too big." Well, my daughter was born over a pound heavier, after only 8 hours of labor!!!  I had an amazing midwife that believed in me and in women's bodies!  Talk to a a midwife. Even if you don't want a homebirth just talk to one to get a pep talk on your body.

[pearl2]

I have been planning a HBAC from the beginning; the reason why I was in an OB's office is already stated in a previous post. I have an amazing birth team consisting of a CNM, a CPM, a midwife assistant who is also a doula/massage therapist, and my doula, who is a Reiki practicioner and Birthing From Within instructor, in addition to my supportive husband. 

Thanks so much for all the great stories!

[EveningSunrise]

I was actually compelled to come out of lurking today to join because I was wondering the same thing; what were the reactions of others when the OB punched in a few stats and spit out the percentage expectancy of VBAC?

I'm pretty sure I took a full 60 seconds to blankly stare at the doc... then the computer screen which was turned towards me for my viewing pleasure... then back at the doc again.

Then I replied that we may as well go ahead and make that 63.something percent a 99.9% because this VBAC is happening.  If nature decides otherwise, we'll revisit the issue at that time; but for now, we'll not anticipate a c/s.  FIN.

[nanasmom]

You can do it!!!!

My first appointment I had with an OB when I got pregnant with DD2 was a complete disaster.  The OB came recommended but I could not stand him.  I had to fight back tears in his office when he said after I can attempt a VBAC, "lets face it, you are going to have a repeat c-section."  And when I asked him about trying to keep the birth weight of the baby down, he laughed and said "you can drink alcohol and do drugs and that should do it."   (My c-section was supposedly a result of CPD - they never told me that but they were concerned the baby was too big and my labor was labeled arrest of descent.)  I ran so fast out of there and never looked back but I am sure he would be surprised to hear that I had a successful HBAC and my HBAC baby was even bigger than my c-section baby!

The OB I was going to use and stuck with until I was 32 weeks pregnant liked to play the numbers game.  And every appointment I head the chances of a VBAC got smaller and smaller - first it was 63%, then 50%, etc.  The crazy thing is, had I given birth in a hospital I would have had a repeat section and would have either been labeled "failure to progress" or "arrest of descent" because my labor and pushing were so long

.

[taubel]

My first DS was a planned section due to breech presentation. I went on to have two successful VBACs after that. Although my first VBAC went so fast that I had severe tearing. The second one was a breeze (although I did get an epidural to avoid the tearing, and didn't tear at all that time). My OB was perfectly OK with the VBACs though. They left the decision up to me. I'm glad I did it. But I do have admit the recovery from the tears was worse than the recovery from the section! 

Good luck to you and I hope everything works out for the best.

[ACsMom]

You rock, pearl2!  I love your descriptions of everything that happened and your reactions.  It sounds like you've got a handle on this and you're not going to let stupidity interfere with your baby's birth.

I not only had a successful VBAC after the ob's ridiculed me, argued with me, put me down, tried to make me feel ashamed of myself, etc. etc. etc. but I had a lightning-fast, problem-free home birth with two wonderful nurse-midwives.  It was incredible, the polar opposite experience from my first daughter's birth.  I had a c-section with her after two full days of pit labor, having been talked into inducing at 41 weeks because of the big baby/low af coercion tactic.  She never descended, but never experienced any distress, either, and by the time they wheeled me in for surgery I was utterly exhausted and could do nothing but give in.  Looking back, I see that the reason the induction didn't work is because she simply was not ready to be born.  My babies like to marinate, simple as that.  My second one was born at 41 weeks, 6 days.  I went into labor all by my little self and pushed her out just a couple hours after it started.  It kills me to think that if I had only waited, it could have been that easy with my first one.  But I don't blame myself anymore - that doesn't help any of us. I blame our crazy, out of control medical system.  I'm proud that I worked hard to pave the way for a normal birth the second time, and made (well, let) it happen.  You will do great, and have a wonderful birth, and a pox on all who would try to deny you and your baby that!