Talk me out of turning dd forward facing! Small update

[Sfcmama]

DD will be one next week and is at least 23 pounds (haven't weighed her in several months) and has been in the 80th or so percentile for height her whole life. She is an extremely social little girl who loves loves loves people and interacting with them.... Which is why I'm guessing she HATES the car so much. It's really the only time she cries (or me for that matter) and the only time we get into power struggles. (she's got this magical wet noodle corkscrew maneuver that makes it impossible to get her in the seat!) I have a mirror which helps a little and she's mostly ok when someone rides in the back with her but that is rare as we are usually by ourselves in the car. I've tried both our comfortsport and complete air but she freaks out equally in both. (maybe slightly more in the CA because the wings make it harder to see me) She used to throw up a lot in the car when she was an infant so I wonder if she's also a little car sick RFing...

I know in my rational brain how much safer RFing (and dont really need reminding here, thanks) but my emotional brain wonders if she'd be happier FFing. Does the emotional safety outweigh the risk? Also, how much safer can RFing be if I'm constantly torquing my body around trying to hold her hand or offer her a toy while driving? And old macdonald is running out of animals on his farm;0)

Seriously, it's to a point where I try to only go places within walking distance which sucks because she loooooves going to visit friends and family, to the aquarium, library, etc.

Help! Thanks!

[jocelyndale]

RF didn't scar my child any more than denying him my glass of wine (not while driving, of course).  He cried about both when he was one.  He hated being restrained in the carseat until he was 2yo or so.  And then he grew to enjoy rides.  At 3.75yo, he's more often RF than not.  We rode the bus or walked quite a bit, saving car rides for times when DH could accompany us and one adult could sit in back.

RF is significantly safer at your daughter's age.  It's so much safer that it should really be a non-issue.  You've seen the crash test videos, right?

[MariesMama]

I just wanted to say that the "magical wet noodle corkscrew maneuver" that is so obnoxious when they're rear-facing is even more so when facing forward, because she'll end up throwing herself onto the floor. Very social kids turn into backseat drivers when FFing! I had to turn DD around due to a crazy seating arrangement once, and all I heard was "Mama! Both hands on the wheel! Mama! Red means stop!" The red lights were brake lights, lol, but turning FFing is not necessarily going to turn her into a peaceful passenger. My DD also had to learn that "When Mama is driving, she can't get your toys. Look out the window." She'll get over it! :)

[happysmileylady]

 Also, how much safer can RFing be if I'm constantly torquing my body around trying to hold her hand or offer her a toy while driving?

 Rear facing or forward facing...it doesn't become an issue until you are actually in a wreck.  Rear facing is safer in a wreck, but if it makes it more likely for you to wreck, that's not really safer.  The safest thing, if you have to drive, is to of course not get into an accident. 

So, what you have to ask yourself is, do you truely feel that having her rear facing makes you more likely to be in an accident?  If the answer is yes, than turn her.  If not, than don't.

[treeoflife3]

I tried turning my kiddo forward facing as a one time thing to try to finish up a long trip home once... yeah... it was in no way better whatsoever.  at all.  it was horrible.  really.

My kiddo for the most part is pretty good about the car now.  She has a special blanket that I try to make sure we never forget (she needs it to sleep and its better in the car) and I have found a few go to songs that help her chill out (If I turn on 'if you're happy and you know it' it is almost guaranteed to have her happy in 5 seconds flat.) and honestly.... putting on a dvd of her favorite show works WONDERS when all else fails.  Not thrilled with that but it definitely works when I need it to.

[erthe_mama]

I'd experiment with it once or twice. If it makes a huge difference, I'd turn her. If not, keep her RF. 

[mama2soren]

Originally Posted by happysmileylady 

 Also, how much safer can RFing be if I'm constantly torquing my body around trying to hold her hand or offer her a toy while driving?

So, what you have to ask yourself is, do you truely feel that having her rear facing makes you more likely to be in an accident?  If the answer is yes, than turn her.  If not, than don't.

I disagree with the second quote.  Whether she's RF or FF won't make it any more or less likely that someone ELSE will get in an accident with you.  BUT, having her FF will make it 75% more likely that she will die or be seriously injured in such an accident.

Torquing your body around trying to hold her hand, etc., is not safe whether she's RF or FF.  Many children go through a fussy-in-the-car period, especially around 1 year of age.  My son certainly did!  For most kids it doesn't really matter whether they're FF or RF.  They just don't like being buckled in a car seat.  She'll outgrow it.  It's a totally frustrating stage but it will pass.  You need to make sure that you're making safe choices, though, by not doing all that turning around while driving.  If DS drops (or throws!) a toy, he knows he's out of luck until the next red light.

I think you need to ask yourself: What is the worst thing that could be done to her emotionally by keeping her RF?  Answer: she'll be cranky for a while, and car rides will be pretty frustrating.  But, what is the worst thing that could be done to her physically by turning her FF?  She could be killed... and you would know that such a tragedy might have been preventable.

[treeoflife3]

Her point wasn't that keeping her RF would make it more likely that someone would crash into her, her point was that an overly distraught and crying child who can't be consoled will distract mama, both with the sounds and also with the emotions that come from hearing your kiddo crying so much when you just want to fix it and can't.  I've had times where kiddo was just crying and crying and I definitely wasn't being a safe driver.  It was extremely difficult to pay attention to the road and my surroundings appropriately when there is a screaming child in the back seat trying to get my attention (and succeeding!)  If EVERY car ride is like that, then FF just might be safer... sure it raises the damage that can be done to baby... but you can't stop a crying child like you can choose to not text or talk on the phone while driving.  I'd argue that some distracting children can be worse than driving while somewhat intoxicated.  If FF solves that problem, you are already safer.
 

Originally Posted by mama2soren 

Originally Posted by happysmileylady 

 Also, how much safer can RFing be if I'm constantly torquing my body around trying to hold her hand or offer her a toy while driving?

So, what you have to ask yourself is, do you truely feel that having her rear facing makes you more likely to be in an accident?  If the answer is yes, than turn her.  If not, than don't.

I disagree with the second quote.  Whether she's RF or FF won't make it any more or less likely that someone ELSE will get in an accident with you.  BUT, having her FF will make it 75% more likely that she will die or be seriously injured in such an accident.

Torquing your body around trying to hold her hand, etc., is not safe whether she's RF or FF.  Many children go through a fussy-in-the-car period, especially around 1 year of age.  My son certainly did!  For most kids it doesn't really matter whether they're FF or RF.  They just don't like being buckled in a car seat.  She'll outgrow it.  It's a totally frustrating stage but it will pass.  You need to make sure that you're making safe choices, though, by not doing all that turning around while driving.  If DS drops (or throws!) a toy, he knows he's out of luck until the next red light.

I think you need to ask yourself: What is the worst thing that could be done to her emotionally by keeping her RF?  Answer: she'll be cranky for a while, and car rides will be pretty frustrating.  But, what is the worst thing that could be done to her physically by turning her FF?  She could be killed... and you would know that such a tragedy might have been preventable.

[starling&diesel]

Keep her rear-faced.  Better a miserable babe than a babe with a spinal cord injury!   How about a dvd player?  New toys?  Books on tape?  Favourite car-only music?  Special car-only treat in a special car-only snack cup? 

RF is the only way that your child knows.  Keep it that way for as long as you can! 

(A message from your friendly local paramedic who gets flack all the time for my RF two-year-old ... )

[bobandjess99]

It's not really an option to FF her, in terms of safety.  If you were 100% certain that letting her play in the street would make her happy, would you do it?  Or stick a fork in the lightsocket?  No, of course not.  FF is the same thing.  It's not safe.  

I agree to the DVD player, saved my LIFE.  Or toys or put her seat more upright or get another seat or give her snacks and sippies, promise her a car when she is 16, buy her a unicorn, let her scream..whatever.  It's just something you do.  :) 

[DahliaRW]

Have you tried adjusting the seat angle?   She can be as upright as 30 degrees and sometimes that helps.

But, yes, I would keep her rfing.  Most kids that age hate being restrained.  RFing or FFing, doesn't make much of a difference.

[happysmileylady]

Originally Posted by treeoflife3 

Her point wasn't that keeping her RF would make it more likely that someone would crash into her, her point was that an overly distraught and crying child who can't be consoled will distract mama, both with the sounds and also with the emotions that come from hearing your kiddo crying so much when you just want to fix it and can't.  I've had times where kiddo was just crying and crying and I definitely wasn't being a safe driver.  It was extremely difficult to pay attention to the road and my surroundings appropriately when there is a screaming child in the back seat trying to get my attention (and succeeding!)  If EVERY car ride is like that, then FF just might be safer... sure it raises the damage that can be done to baby... but you can't stop a crying child like you can choose to not text or talk on the phone while driving.  I'd argue that some distracting children can be worse than driving while somewhat intoxicated.  If FF solves that problem, you are already safer.
 

nak.  Thank You, yes, exactly.

Rear facing is less dangerous.....in an accident.  

Forward facing is more dangerous....in an accident.

Distracted driving is responsible for thousands and thousands of accidents.  A SCREAMING baby is distracting, whether mamma is trying to reach over the seat to provide comfort or not.  A mamma who is distracted is more likely to get into an accident.  Reducing the risk of getting into an accident makes the baby safer than rear facing ever could.  Because it's the accident that is the real danger. 

When I was in elementary school, I remember my dad coming home one evening in a pickup truck, with his mangled motorcycle in the truck bed.  He was on his way to work and in an accident.  His bike was totaled, and he was lucky to have survived with little injury as the force of the crash threw him from his bike and into a ditch across the street.  The person who hit him was a mother distracted by her screaming kids and she ran a red light. 

If turning a child reduces mammas risk of causing an accident, the child is automatically safer.  It's safer to avoid an accident in the first place than to try to mitigate the risks of an accident already occuring.

[Bebe's Mom]

DD was RF until around 13 months..She was really uncomfortable and just hated being RF. We turned her around and she is much happier because now she can see us. I agree that it is technically safer to keep her RF as long as possible, but if you are distracted by her crying while you are driving, you could increase your chances of having an accident..Just something to think about.

[treeoflife3]

Of course, if its POSSIBLE to help them not be so unhappy RF, then you should exhaust all those options first (special toy/lovey, dvd, mirror, song, snack, drink, etc) but I do think some kids just seriously won't accept it.  My kid was worse FF the one time I caved and tried and now we are just fine but some kids are like jekyll and hyde when it comes to RF and FF and nothing you can do will change that.

OP, exhaust all your options.  Maybe there is a song that will comfort her or a snack you'll let her munch on (I always said I was never going to let my kids eat in the car... ha!)  For military families, we have this thing called a 'daddy doll' where you can put a picture of the deployed parent (usually the dad, hence the name) and maybe that would help her... a doll with a picture of mommy on it.  in the end though, if you just can't make it work a non distracted mom is safer for baby.  Make sure you have the seat in perfectly and no second guessing on how correctly the straps are on and enjoy being able to focus so you can get to destinations without having to thank God (or whatever) that you made it safely despite the distraction and stress.  One of the first rules in drivers ed was to not drive when you were really tired or really emotional because they are similar to driving under the influence.  Its all a distraction that messes up your reaction times.  An inconsolable baby or child I think falls under that.

[an_aurora]

Absolutely keep her RF.  It's impossible to keep kids happy 100% of the time, and RF is SO much safer.  Having a quiet kid doesn't make you any less likely to be hit by someone else.  

[bri276]

Personally, I would not be able to live with myself if my child were internally decapitated because I FF before I had to.  I learned to force myself to tune out screaming by telling myself that they were safe and we would get to our destination in X minutes and pulling over to comfort them if absolutely necessary.  I would be much more distracted by the fear of their imminent death in even a small accident if they were FF before necessary.

[alegna]

For me it comes down to- could I live with myself if my child was injured or killed because of my decision.  For that reason my kids will rf as long as possible.  Ds is 2.5 and I am looking to get him a new seat to keep him rf as long as possible.

-Angela

[happysmileylady]

Originally Posted by an_aurora 

Absolutely keep her RF.  It's impossible to keep kids happy 100% of the time, and RF is SO much safer.  Having a quiet kid doesn't make you any less likely to be hit by someone else.  

But it can absolutely make it less likely for the mamma to hit someone else...or a tree...or a light pole...or miss the turn, or whatever.  And if the mamma hits someone else, that is still an accident. 
 

[happysmileylady]

Originally Posted by bri276 

Personally, I would not be able to live with myself if my child were internally decapitated because I FF before I had to.  I learned to force myself to tune out screaming by telling myself that they were safe and we would get to our destination in X minutes and pulling over to comfort them if absolutely necessary.  I would be much more distracted by the fear of their imminent death in even a small accident if they were FF before necessary.

That's why it's something that the mamma has to ask for herself.  The question is, is the screaming child so distracting to the mamma that it puts them at risk of causing an accident?  If not, then leave the child rear facing.  But, if the screaming child puts mamma at risk of running a red light and hitting someone on a motorcycle, then try the child out FF.  Because avoiding causing the accident in the first place is the safest option of all.

 

[lookatreestar]

the videos on youtube are pretty convincing. now that my dd is almost 4 she begs to be rfing like her little brother. it really is more comfortable than her legs hanging down (esp with heavy shoes).