Got the CIO talk today

[Terrilein]

DP's family seem overly concerned that our 6 month old son still isn't sttn, as in 12 hours straight. Until today it was mostly his parents who would drop comments about it, with his mother singing CIO's praise with her other grandchildren. In the meantime, DP is practically on board with them although I even got him a Dr. Sears book on baby's sleep in German. So today we were visiting his family again and his SIL asked about how well our baby is sleeping and of course, she recommended a popular Ferber-related book that worked perfectly on all four of her children. From what I've heard, DP's other SIL also did the same with her kids. That or DP got his SIL's mixed up. So I'm the only one in a huge family with 7 grandkids - excluding my 2 children - who won't CIO and am being made to feel like I'm inexperienced or I'm just shooting from the hip. I did accidentally roll my eyes by reflex when she mentioned the book name because I really didn't expect her or all people to CIO her babies. I mean, she smiled when she brought up the book since I'm sure she's heard all the discussions herself and probably knew I wasn't going to CIO. It makes me think that somebody else asked her to talk to me about it since I do ask her for advice occasionally on other things.

I don't know what I really want here. I guess just some support. I feel like I'm going to be treated like some stubborn AP fanatic with no rhyme or reason for her decision to not CIO. I've got plenty of resources. I could have been snarky and said that my dd learned to sleep all by herself in her own time without CIO. But I didn't because I don't want to create a rift. I like and respect DP's family. I'd like to receive the same respect. But if I keep getting pressured there WILL be a rift, and it won't be my fault if they can't respect our parenting. As far as I'm concerned, this is a matter to be discussed between DP and myself. So I guess I need to work a little hard on getting him on my page so that he can support me or stand up for himself when such discussions come up. Otherwise, I'll just stick to saying "he's sleeping just fine" as an answer if his family insists on staying nosy.

[MJB]

I think saying "He's sleeping just fine," or "Thanks for your advice," is a sufficient response and I see no reason for there to be a rift over your child's sleep (or lack thereof). 

[rachelsnyder]

I agree...you don't have to get into the details of the sleep...just be vague and polite with "sleeping just fine."  I find CIO advocates extremely pushy and judgemental. 

[Mawood]

My inlaws are the same way. So whenever they ask about sleep, eating, vaccines or similar topics we just say that DD is doing just fine and keep our answers very general. I feel that if I don't give out many details there is not much to comment on. Luckily my husband is on the same page as I am but he said himself if it wouldn't have been for me giving him all the articles or books to read he probably would have done it the way he was raised so definitely keep the readings for your DP up. I am German but don't really have any German literature recs on AP...unfortunately though I'd love some for my Mom to read as well. I really like Dr. Sear's baby book. It has been so helpful and supporting throughout our first year of parenting. If you know a good German book about AP I would love to have the information :)

Warmly Maren

[Terrilein]

Thanks ladies. I think I'll really have to keep it succinct. The problem is DP who complains about everything openly and profusely about ds's sleep "problems". I just hope he'll actually read the book I sent him which is one of these two books from Dr. Sears in German here:

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/3906675041/ref=oss_product

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/3906675033/ref=oss_product

There's also this paper with numerous exerpts from child psychologists against sleep training translated into German. Beware spelling errors!:

http://www.elternzeitschrift.org/fileadmin/Ferber-Brosch%C3%BCre_Kinder_brauchen_uns_auch_nachts.pdf

The thing I just realized while fishing out these links is that she said she doesn't read parenting books, but she read this one and said it worked on her oldest child (who's now 15 and was present this evening) after two days. I hope that I can give the older children present at least an idea that it doesn't have to be done this way! Anyhow, I guess she knows/heard that I do read parenting books which is how she introduced the evil CIO book after asking about ds's sleep. Or maybe she was trying to counteract what I read with her experience. I don't know. I did find it discomfitting to have this discussion with the whole family present and my DP listening intently. I was just now wondering if she knew I gave him these books. Did he complain about that? It does often seem like he just wants a fast and easy solution. His father is coming by to watch Fritz tomorrow while I'm busy with dd and the orthodontist. I plan on printing out the pdf above and putting it in plain site. Maybe he'll catch on. DP, too.

[1stTimeMama4-4-10]

Ouch - I'm there with you.  In my office, there have been 10 children born in the last 2 or so years - it's a really small office too.  DD was the only one who was not a C-section, so that's telling right there.  We are the ONLY ones doing AP.  Literally every other parent sings the praises of Ferber and CIO.  I made the mistake of being honest about DD having some sleep problems, and their responses are always to brag about how they put their 2 day old babies in their cribs, shut the door, and turned off the monitor and now the kids sleep great.  It makes me want to cry that any parent could bear to do that, but suffice to say that I could not do that under any circumstances. Half of my office has talked about how great CIO it is, the other half talks about how even after doing CIO for months that their kids still wake in the middle of the night multiple times and that they basically have to do CIO every night for months.  I haven't bothered to read up on CIO because I don't believe in it, but I thought the idea was that you get through the first few days and then kids stop crying.  For it to go on for months with the parents refusing to do something different is baffling and heartbreaking to me.  Anyway. everyone thinks that DD's sleep problems are because she co-sleeps and we don't do CIO.  I have stopped talking about her sleep problems, but people still think we are nuts.  I have not told anyone my views on CIO, I just say I could not bear to leave my precious daughter in a room by herself and let her believe no one cares that she is crying and leave it at that. It's really awkward, although no one has outright pushed us into CIO.

FIL and his family are pretty much polar opposites, from us when it comes to parenting, and they are frequently left with their jaws hanging open when we tell them about our parenting decisions.  It's simply not up for discussion and we never ask them for their opinions.  When they ask questions, we tell them everything is fine and that DD is strong and healthy and happy and developing great - so what we are doing is working.  

[motherhendoula]

My In laws are similar - they always ask "is he sleeping through the night?"  (my LO is 5 mo old)  and i respond - no - and they ask 'what does the doctor say?'  ...hmmm...my doctor knows better than to ask me that question actually. 

My pat response has always been "i dont mind that he gets up once or twice during the night - it gives me an excuse to take a nap during the day!" 

OP - it sounds like what really has you down is that your DP /DH is not 100% on board with co-sleeping.  Forget the books in German - tell him how YOU , the mommie, FEEL about sleeping with the baby or EBF or AP ar all of it.   Once DP/DH is on your side - i think youll feel a little better about it.

one last thought - it seems like the Moms around here think that CIO is good for the baby!  One mom i know lamented that she had to start letting her 9 mo old CIO - but that she didnt want to, she hated to hear him cry, she felt so guilty, but that CIO was the only way baby would learn to sleep at a prescribed time.   Makes me look forward to my day-time nap!

[Mawood]

Thanks for the links Terrilein!

[Terrilein]

Originally Posted by motherhendoula 

My In laws are similar - they always ask "is he sleeping through the night?"  (my LO is 5 mo old)  and i respond - no - and they ask 'what does the doctor say?'  ...hmmm...my doctor knows better than to ask me that question actually. 

My pat response has always been "i dont mind that he gets up once or twice during the night - it gives me an excuse to take a nap during the day!" 

OP - it sounds like what really has you down is that your DP /DH is not 100% on board with co-sleeping.  Forget the books in German - tell him how YOU , the mommie, FEEL about sleeping with the baby or EBF or AP ar all of it.   Once DP/DH is on your side - i think youll feel a little better about it.

one last thought - it seems like the Moms around here think that CIO is good for the baby!  One mom i know lamented that she had to start letting her 9 mo old CIO - but that she didnt want to, she hated to hear him cry, she felt so guilty, but that CIO was the only way baby would learn to sleep at a prescribed time.   Makes me look forward to my day-time nap!

DP used to be on board . . . before the baby came. He used to think AP was awesome. Now he sees the baby as being spoiled and manipulative. As for co-sleeping, he complains about how much noise the baby makes. And yes, Fritz makes little noises while nursing, but honestly, I snore loud enough to wake up the whole neighborhood. He's having intimacy problems and is blaming AP and co-sleeping, and treating co-sleeping like a bad habit I need to break. Right. That's why he got us a really nice sidecar expressly for the purpose of co-sleeping. Our baby will not go down for sleep for more than an hour during the day and evening, and unless he's snuggled right up next to me, he's up all night. Otherwise, he does sleep a good five hours between night feeds. He fights sleep and is often very fussy, but I wouldn't say he's HN. But back to the intimacy-co-sleeping-AP dilemna: the baby won't go down at night until I go to bed at which time I'm exhausted and in no mood for anything. And the baby isn't even asleep yet anyways. I've been through this with dd. I know it doesn't last. But he's too impatient to wait out this phase. I've already told him about what my friends experienced with using the same book his SIL has: absolute failure! And I've already explained him why I'm pro co-sleeping and anti-cio. Apparently I'm not expert enough as his SIL so that's why I'm pulling out the literature on him. If he won't trust my word on it, I'll give him some real expert opinions.

[P.J.]

As for intimacy, can't you guys find another time and place, like when Fritz is napping during the day?

[Terrilein]

Originally Posted by P.J. 

As for intimacy, can't you guys find another time and place, like when Fritz is napping during the day?

Theoretically yes, but practically it hasn't happened yet. He's only home on the weekends and then we're so busy! And dd is supposed to be at her father's every two weeks, but it hasn't been working that way either. And since she's nearly 10 yrs old now, I don't feel comfortable getting intimate while she's up and about in the rest of the appartment - which isn't very large anyways. We already had an incident pre-baby where she and her friend very nearly caught us in flagrante. Not an experience I'd like to repeat!I just hope the literature will help him come (back) around. I mean, he loves spending early mornings cuddling in bed with the baby.

[sere234]

I generally smile and ignore people when I get the CIO talk. Or tell them C is sleeping okay. Sometimes they push and so I feel I have a right to push back so here's what I kindly (hopefully!) reply: "Crying is how my baby tells me he needs something. This is the ONLY way he knows to talk. If he cries at night, he needs me and as his mother, I respond. If you were begging me for help, sobbing in frustration, how would you feel if I left you in a dark room all alone? I would never ignore you when you needed me so badly but you suggest I do this with my 5 month old baby???????"

Generally shuts them up or at least makes them think. 

[asraidevin]

Originally Posted by Terrilein 

. He's having intimacy problems and is blaming AP and co-sleeping, and treating co-sleeping like a bad habit I need to break. Right. That's why he got us a really nice sidecar expressly for the purpose of co-sleeping. Our baby will not go down for sleep for more than an hour during the day and evening, and unless he's snuggled right up next to me, he's up all night.

I have one of those sleepers. I snuggle him down to sleep, then slowly ease myself away from him. Then we have our adult time on the make shift bed on the living room floor or on the sofa. Not my ideal romantice spot, but until babe is a better sleeper awkward intimacy is better than none.

[motherhendoula]

Terrilein:  i can totally relate - i have two older kids with my first husband and now a new baby with my new husband.  with older kids in the house - you cant sneak off to the living room  - they might leave their room , head for the bathroom - and run into us!  not good!   We do have a sidecar which my LO will sleep in....my DH is working two jobs so he frankly is less 'in the mood' than i am.  but either way - its not easy in the fist few months

i hope things resolve for you soon!  

[ell]

I don't know why people think it's their business to comment on how other people choose to parent, FFS.

Your baby's sleep is none of their business. When they ask, tell them that things are just fine and change the subject. If they harp, ask them flat out why they care so much.

[tzs]

in my experience, nighttime parenting does not have to be the emotionally charged subject that we sometimes make it out to be. i mean, people offer advice and comments on all sorts of parenting stuff (and regular life stuff as well) and it's pretty easy to let it roll off or have a calm "agree to disagree" conversation about it just like anything else. when i've talked to hardcore CIO'ers it's not like they've really seemed like evil people trying to infiltrate my life, they're just offering up opinions like anything else and if i get upset about it, IMO, it's more my issue than theirs. usually they could care less about what i really do just like i could care less about what they do that they think works for them.

an example, a few nights ago, my MIL made a comment about how weird it was that dd didn't know how to drink out of a sippy cup. well, she doesn't because we went straight to open cup and that's it. i never taught her how to drink from a sippy and she's really never tried one. and that was the end of it. it didn't upset me and it didn't upset MIL...and why should it? thinking about getting upset about somebody's comment about my parenting decision to avoid sippys even sounds outragious.  so why should CIO (or introducing solids, or daycare, or nursing....) be any different?

[Terrilein]

I don't know that I was terribly upset. My first thoughts were, of course, that she would never have brought the subject up without prodding from somebody. She's not the type to get nosy into other people's parenting. And DP had only mentioned that his other SIL cio'd her kids, but he never mentioned this SIL doing the same. I didn't expect it because she's totally a crunchy mama otherwise. It just doesn't fit the picture! So it's things like that which make it difficult to find like-minded AP mamas in Germany. Sheesh. And I really don't see co-sleeping or AP as the intimacy culprit either. When I think about it, it's more of a priority and time management problem. DP just expects things to go bump in the dark when he's home on the weekends . And, of course, he gets upset when all he gets is a resounding snore from me. I've told him that this doesn't last forever. Babies do settle into sleep eventually and my wonky hormones will normalize when he's not nursing so much . . . eventually.