different at school than with me

[vivica2]

my 4 year old DS is a very bright boy, gifted or not, we don't know yet, but this is the best place i could find for people who may have had a similar experience. :)  hes at an accredited Montessori school in a small town with a very small class 14 children to 2 adults. and hes the only boy over 2 years old. 

at home:

reading everything, cereal boxes (no letter limit but he prefers shorter words) signs, notes etc... he is obsessed with dinos, so when he sees a dinosaur he's never heard of he sounds it out. when we go out he reads me the sign on the door to tell me what they sell (dresses, books etc..) 

we have started 'home lessons' where every week is a different topic (example: Feb is ART wk1- fiction wk-2 non fiction wk3-music wk4- visual art.)  this last week was part of our literature 2 week section and i had them make up a story and i wrote it do for them so they could get the idea that we arn't learning our letter to make a sign or sign our name...we learn our letter to open new worlds in books!  he is IN LOVE with this idea.   sorry rambling... point is he has a huge drive to learn!

at school:

sits in the book corner and watches other kids for the first half of the day.

the only way he plays with them at 'recess' is he chases them around like hes a dinosaur and growls at them. (and this took a month for this "awesome development" so his teacher says) they all laugh and squeal and play along that they are fairies running from him and leap all over the yard. 

when he decided to do a work he does the sewing work that a little girl he grovels over does all the time. (grrrrr) or something like pouring water. 

the teacher held up flash card things and marked all the letters he knew and she said he only knew half of them...(gasp!)

when i heard this i started laughing thinking she was joking, but she said he really needs some social skills work. OK fine, he is an observer. I'm OK with that. what I'm not OK with is him feeling like he should hide what he knows! 

he also came home crying saying that the tall blond artist 5 year old in class wouldn't sit with him at lunch. (she has A TON of girlfriends in the class)

I'm trying to get a meeting with the teacher as we speak but I'm not sure what to address. he can read and hes hiding it? he is in tears because he doesn't have any boys in his class to identify with? the fact that he growls at kids to try to 'play'

[shanniesue2]

does he identify the letters with you?  The names for the letters are arbitrary and, in reality, not really necessary for figuring out how to read.  I mean, if you're trying to sound out "cat" is it important to know that the names of the letters are c-a-t?  That said, there is evidence that letter recognition is an indicator of reading success... but that doesn't mean that kids who don't name letters can't read.

But aside from all that, which really isn't the issue at hand...

I see several possibilities here... all of them tied to the idea that this particular educational environment doesn't sound like the best fit for your son...

possibilities are:

1.  He thrives betters in a more teacher/adult driven setting.  Montessori is very child driven.

2.  He thrives better with more adult attention.  Lower student:teacher ratio

3.  He would thrive better in a home schooling situation

4.  He needs more practice interacting with large groups of children.

How long has he been attending this school? Have a meeting with the teaher.  Discuss how his learning enthusiasm at home seems to differ with what they are seeing at school.  Brainstorm solutions.  But I would honestly be considering the idea that this may be a GREAT school, but not a great fit for your son.

[vivica2]

he knows both the name of the letters and the sounds (obviously that is how he is reading)  he know some letters have different sounds sometimes  but mostly just sounds out what he can and infers the rest of the word.  he knows combinations also (oo th sh etc..)

i just made an appointment with the teacher and i will mention those things. thanks for your response!

[whatsnextmom]

Are you sure he feels he needs to hide or is it possible he's just making different choices at school based on what is interesting him. Other kids are pretty fascinating to watch. I know neither my DS's preschool teachers nor his kindergarten teacher knew he could read. I sort of laughed at the end of kindie when his teacher said he was a real "light bulb" and is sounding out 3 letter words. I really couldn't blame them though. For DS, school at that age was playtime. He never voluntarily did work. He did everything that was asked of him but never volunteered to do more. Things that were incredibly easy, he'd race through often making silly mistakes because he'd much rather be at the lego table. He wasn't actively "hiding" his abilities. He just wasn't interested in academic activities in preschool and kindie. First grade, that turned around. Now he's in 5th grade, top of his class, speaking 3 languages, reading and writing in two, accelerated in math and science, ect. From 3 to 5, when DS was given the option of social interaction or people watching, no book or math activity could compete.

It doesn't hurt to talk to the teacher. You might get some ideas from her with the social stuff plus give her some ideas for the academics. However, I agree with above that Montessori isn't set up to "lead" kids academically. If a kid isn't choosing to do the math activities, they aren't going to do math. You DS might do better in a developmental preschool with NO academics (I mean, it's not like he really needs them at this point right) Both mine did developmental and loved it. Instead of flashcards and letter learning, they raised silkworrms, made astronaut helmets, ran their hands through flax seed, had teddy bear picnics, cooked food, did messy crafts ect.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by vivica2 
 point is he has a huge drive to learn!

at school:

sits in the book corner and watches other kids for the first half of the day.

the only way he plays with them at 'recess' is he chases them around like hes a dinosaur

I think that watching other children can be a way of learning. It sounds like academic task come more easily to him than social ones, but he may be absorbing while he is watching.

Does he have experiences in other groups or play dates with other boys? The social stuff you describe is a bit odd, esp. if he's been there since the first of the year, but it may be more about the situation (all girls) than about him. I'm curious what he is like socially in other context, or if he really hasn't been around other children much.  

That said, my DDs are currently at a school that has far more boys than girls, and have learned that some boys are OK as friends. It took several months for them to learn that!

[musikat]

you said he is in Montessori. Are the letters and words he is reading at home are in print? Most Montessori schools I believe teach cursive letters. Could that be in any way confusing him? I know when my middle son started Montessori his teacher made a point of telling the parents that if we were writing letters or words at home to always do cursive (which I had to re-learn, since I never use it!). Also, like the above posters, watching other kids can be learning, or just interesting.

I don't think my son's primary teacher really got that he was advanced and I think in part that was because so much of the first two years is about "practical life" like sewing and washing tables.

[vivica2]

i had my meeting today, and told her my concerns. 

she said that he is very stressed out at home, and he need to stop doing lessons at home. she said if he does them at home he wont do them at school. so i suggested doing crafts and art with me, so he will do the writing lessons at school. and she said "no no your missing the point, practical life lessons are lessons, even art"  so what do i do at home? i know he is bored but I'm not allowed to do letter or art?

she also said he needs more social interaction, so maybe that is where we will start. *sigh* 

[loraxc]

She sounds like she thinks you're hothousing and doesn't approve of the way she thinks you parent. I don't think this school sounds like a good fit.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by loraxc 

She sounds like she thinks you're hothousing and doesn't approve of the way she thinks you parent. I don't think this school sounds like a good fit.

 Yes, maybe this. However, I have found that sometimes the most painful and confusing things that others have said to me have ended up revealing some truth.  OP, I think it would be worth reflecting on this for a few days, and possibly having another meeting to clarify what the teacher is seeing/believes.  I don't have a sense from what you've shared where the "truth" lies, but I would encourage you to reflect.  This may lead to new understandings, or it may reinforce your resolve in your approach and direction re schooling choices.

[Tjej]

My DD has a tendancy to just watch other children.  There's a group of people we've met with for at least 1 1/2 years now that just barely know she talks - and DD can talk your ear off at home.  My DD is introverted and socially very slow to warm up.  It's overwhelming for her.  BUT with time and patience and not pushing she is getting more comfortable in groups and alternate settings.  FWIW, I find that if the background/setting is very familiar and comfortable (home/certain rooms at church/grandpa and grandma's) it doesn't matter who is there, my DD is outgoing and "herself".  When we are somewhere more unfamiliar she is much more of an observer.

Anyway, it sounds like your son is feeling anxious socially at preschool.  I find that direct adult invovlement and programmed/structured activities for a larger portion of the time help my DD feel more comfortable and apt to interact.  A different type of school might be a better fit for your DS (or one that is smaller).

Sorry the teacher isn't seeing your perspective.  That'd be frustrating.

HTH

Tjej

[joensally]

Meant to include that Montessori would not have worked at all for DS in preschool.  Different settings/orientations work for different kids.

[widemouthedfrog]

It's totally possible to be bright / gifted and have no idea how to interact with others in a social situation.

I say this because I was like that.

If the school isn't working for you, is there a possibility of going to a smaller group, perhaps a playgroup where you can support him in his social interactions? I know that the kids (mostly boys) in dd's preschool class didn't really start playing together until the middle of the year they were 4.  

I would say that if he enjoys doing reading, writing and art at home, why not? If you're pushing him into it, maybe not, but if it's something that he's seeking out and enjoying and asking to do, do it!

[LynnS6]

OP, it sounds to me like you're homeschooling your son, which is great. But the homeschooling 'style' you've chosen is conflicting with Montessori. Is it worth continuing the Montessori?

The other thing that struck me is that he's the ONLY boy over age 2. Ds spent all of age 4-5 riding trikes around the playground making fire truck noises. He spent all of his "journaling" time in kindergarten drawing pictures of fire trucks, and then buses. Luckily, he had a cohort of 4-5 other boys doing exactly the same thing. I think it drove the teachers mad because they heard siren noises all.the.time, but it was the kind of play he needed. Ds is also a watcher. If he hadn't had these other boys to drive trucks around with, he would have been in the corner, watching. Their kind of imaginative play didn't appeal to him (it did to plenty of the other boys in the classroom, lest you thing it's completely gender-based). He did do lots of imaginative play at home (I 'toured' his fire station many a time!), but not at school.

It doesn't sound like the school is a great fit for his learning style/your teaching style ,and he doesn't really have a cohort.

(I wouldn't worry too much over him wanting to be near the 'popular' girl. This is a common phenomenon among preschoolers as they learn that you can have more than one friend or play with more than one child at a time.)

[domesticidyll]

I agree that it sounds like the teachers believe you are pushing him, and want to encourage you to make significant changes in your parenting. I guess, how can I say this gently, I have become hesitant to take the advice of people who see a child so different as to be almost unrecognizable, and for whom my child seems to be shutting down. It's one thing to prefer being with friends than doing worksheets, or to be watchful rather than participating--these seem like sensible choices for a small person. But it's another entirely a child performs radically below what he is capable of doing, and doing easily in a one-on-one assessment.

I have come in our case to see it as kind of a selection process by which DS finds people he feels comfortable around, people he trusts to open his mind to, people he is willing to trust enough to let himself focus--and chooses not to engage with people who don't meet those standards. And I have been finding that this coincides almost entirely with people who see the same kid I see, who perceive him similarly, and even I think who support our parenting. Whereas the people who saw a different child, and for whom DS underperformed, these are the people who viewed my teaching him to read as pushing (a kid who is saying, "But why does Barack end with CK? Is stone OA or O silent E? How do you know the difference? Why are some e's just silent e's and some have another job?"). I actually did have DS tested, largely because it was hard to trust my instincts in the face of all that certainty from his experienced teachers. But, turns out, he tests fine--nd our tester was passionately supportive of homeschooling because she wanted to see him challenged and allowed to zoom and linger.

That aside, it just seems like a terrible idea to me to discourage a child who is sitting at the breakfast table reading everything he can get his hands on. It may be that this is a good time to encourage social skills also, but I am wondering if homeschooling, or another school might let him develop those skills and also encourage the blossoming you see at home.

Heather

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by domesticidyll 

I agree that it sounds like the teachers believe you are pushing him, and want to encourage you to make significant changes in your parenting. I guess, how can I say this gently, I have become hesitant to take the advice of people who see a child so different as to be almost unrecognizable, and for whom my child seems to be shutting down.. It may be that this is a good time to encourage social skills also, but I am wondering if homeschooling, or another school might let him develop those skills and also encourage the blossoming you see at home.

There are parts of this I agree with, and parts that I differ.

I, too, wonder if this school is a good fit. I think it is natural to show our children things and for children to learn when they are with their parents. I don't care for teachers telling me I need to parent differently. I wonder if this school is a good fit for your child intellectually, if the teaching style and philosophy work for him.

I think the social development is extremely important, and for some kids it is more difficult that others. I'm not a big fan of homeschooling for this reason. Rather than learning to just pulling him out of school, I would look for a different school and I would focus that search primarily on what would be best for his social development. A play based program with fun activities that he could do WITH other kids (esp other boys) would be ideal.

[ssh]

Since he is getting intellectual stimulation at home maybe a play based preschool with a good gender mix would work better. Play based preschools really let LOs focus on social development. Teachers at a  play based preschool wouldn't presume to tell you to stop doing reading activities at home. They will focus on behavior, social issues and your DS's specific interests.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by ssh 

Since he is getting intellectual stimulation at home maybe a play based preschool with a good gender mix would work better. Play based preschools really let LOs focus on social development. Teachers at a  play based preschool wouldn't presume to tell you to stop doing reading activities at home. They will focus on behavior, social issues and your DS's specific interests.

Absolutely agree. At that age my kids were just playing all day, learning through curiosity and conversation with no expectations and no agenda other than their own. To be getting both home lessons and Montessori school seems like a double whammy of adult expectations. I think a play-based preschool would be the best compliment to interest-based "lessons" at home. It's the only type of preschool I would ever have considered for my kids.

Miranda 

[vivica2]

thank you so much for all of your replies and helpful suggestions!

there are 2 preschool options here, Waldorf, Montessori and a church "nursery" type school. the church group is out *shudder* and Waldorf i think would bore him to death. but maybe that is what he needs, and i can give him lessons at home based on interest. 

there is a charter school that i have turned in an application to for next year (kindergarten) and it is much bigger so I'm hoping he can find a friend or 2 there. :)

[Tjej]

I understand and appreciate that you may have had negative experiences associated with the church or the church nursery program, but your unqualified "shudder" offends me a bit as someone who regularly attends a church and finds it un-horriffic. 

Religious stance aside, many churches purely rent space to preschool groups and have no religious programming in the preschool programs.  Of course, many also run their own programs that may have religious content, but if you haven't checked into it you may be surprised.

Tjej

[ssh]

My DD's play based co-op preschool rents space from a church but is not affiliated with the church. I know of preschools that the thought of them makes me shutter, so I understand the feeling. I'm assuming the OP just means she feels that particular school is not good.

On the other hand I wouldn't send my DD to a religious school because it would be too confusing for her, especially the patriarchal judgmental religions. I wouldn't mind her being exposed to light eastern mysticism, American Indian religions, or any mythologies. But any deist religion that teaches that all the other ways are wrong is just too different from our family's beliefs.