Wow, I am ready to walk.

[~Nikki~]

Circumcision has been a touchy subject since the moment I found out I was pregnant.  We absolutely disagree about what should be done.  I quoted several research documents, including the recommendations from various health organizations stating that routine infant circumcision was considered a cosmetic surgery and is not necessary for newborns.  He retaliated by calling me closed minded for not considering circumcision as an option.  He wants the baby to look like him.  I argued that nobody is going to be glancing in the diaper area and saying "awww, he has your penis", because frankly, that'd be just plain weird.  I asked him to simply consider the idea of leaving the baby alone, maybe do a little research of his own before making a decision, and he agreed to look into it more if it turned out we were having a boy.

His research turned out to be quizzing friends and family members on their opinions, which, not surprisingly given the generation, are all pro-circ.  One even suggested to him that he sneak away and have it done without my knowledge!!! 

This past weekend took the cake.  We had gotten together with his family for a dinner, and out of nowhere he asks what they think about it, and aren't I weird for being so obsessed about a body part I don't even have.  I did my best to argue my points, but they were all shot down with "he'll get made fun of", and "I know x person and x person who had to get it done as adults" and "just get it overwith when he's a baby, they don't feel pain that young" and "it's gross".  Keeping in mind that my intact son from a previous marriage is sitting at the table absorbing all of this trash.

He waited until I had left the table to take the kids to the washroom to bring it up a second time, ridiculing me behind my back to his family one last time.

Did I mention we're having a girl??? And have known this for weeks??  Why he even decided to bring it up at all is beyond me.

I am so angry and hurt over this.  I just don't even know what to say to him.  Five months pregnant, and alone.

[philomom]

But he is hoping for a son one day, right? I think you have your answer... you won't change this man. Either make your girl an only child or do what needs to be done here. He is clearly disrespecting you and your unborns.

BTW, one of the arguments that I won a couple of girlfriends over with was "the bread winning daddy has few chances to bathe with his child" argument. Honestly, my dh is the sole breadwinner and I think he and ds bathed together twice in my ds 15 year life span thus far. Both times at the beach in an outdoor shower setting. Never a word was said about the penises ... they were trying to get the sand off.

[Pirogi]

Your partner's actions stink, that's for sure.  There isn't any excuse for it, but there is a reason.  He needs desperately to justify his own circumcision, or else face that he was harmed by his doctor and with the consent of his parents.  It looks like at this point option B is too difficult for him, and he has chosen to justify his circumcision at the expense of you and your older son.  He may still yet come around, but right now he has shown that he isn't ready.

I would be upset too if I were you.  But the main reason I would be angry is for your older son's sake, who witnessed and internalized the ridiculous scene with his family.  If I were you, I would absolutely and firmly put my foot down for your son's sake.  I would make sure that my partner understood that this behavior (berating intactness) was not ok and would not be tolerated ever again.  And if it ever happened again, I would abruptly stop the conversation.  Leave or ask the offenders to leave.  Absolutely not ok for anyone to make your son feel like there is something wrong with his penis.

[Lauren82]

Gah. My ex husband did the same with our son. What it came down to was me going extremely mama bear on him. I told him: "Our son is NOT going to be circumcised. End of story. If you can't deal with it, you can leave. If you ever tease him you will be out the door."

We ended up divorced for other reasons but I assume he's finally gotten over it. I told my son that if anyone ever teases him (including his father) to just remind them that they are the ones missing the best part of their penis, not him. I mean, really. Teasing a little boy or making comments is so immature.

Luckily you still have time to keep trying to get your partner (husband?) to come around. But if it doesn't work and you do have a boy someday, put your foot down, mama!

Honestly, if I were you I would let him know that what he is done has pushed you to the point of leaving. You have every right to be angry and upset. It's one thing for him to disagree with what research you have presented him but getting his family to gang up on you is extremely uncalled for.

[Treece]

I did walk away from a relationship over circ. We didn't have any children, thankfully. But your case is a little different. I think that printing up material by men who have been circumcised and then fathered intact sons is a good place to start.

Here are some good ones:

http://www.fathermag.com/health/circ/gmas/

http://www.noharmm.org/raising.htm

http://www.drmomma.org/2010/10/letter-to-my-intact-son-why-i-kept-you.html (from mommy, but touching)

http://www.circumstitions.com/Father.html (this one is a circumcised father writing about an intact son)

I'd print that last one and set it by the big potty, sort of inconspicuously among other gentle parenting stuff.

ETA: The vulnerablity of men. DO NOT print this one. http://www.circumstitions.com/men-vuln.html

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by ~Nikki~ 

We had gotten together with his family for a dinner, and out of nowhere he asks what they think about it, and aren't I weird for being so obsessed about a body part I don't even have.

Unless you're missing your clitoral hood, your dh is the one who is obsessed with a body part he doesn't have...which is understandable, in some ways. I'm sure I'd have issues with the clitoral hood if I didn't have mine (possibly similar to the intense emotional reactions I'm capable of when talking to women who have vaginas that have actually passed a baby through them).

I feel for your husband, but his behaviour is completely inexcusable and over-the-top and I'd be furious that he brought on that discussion in front of your intact son!  Have you contemplated asking him how he'd feel about it if you wanted to circ your daughter, being very clear that you "just" mean removing the clitoral hood? For some people, that seems to make an impression.

[vachi73]

I just wanted to say two things -- one, I am sorry you are going through this! it's not easy to be pregnant and feel like you are on the defensive/being attacked or are in conflict. Not good for you, your baby, or your blood pressure! :)

Two, ITA with PP who said that they would NOT tolerate this type of behavior/conversation around your intact DS. Period. And, furthermore, I wouldn't allow it in the future around your intact son or your intact daughter!! Just not approrpriate.

OK, I said two, but I meant three :) Three, this is *so* clearly HIS hang-up/issue, it's not even funny. If I were you, I would (as vehemently as was necessary!) remind him the next time that HE brings the topic up that HE brought it up and seems far more hung-up on it than you are, and that you will not tolerate the topic around your children.

Hang in there!!!

[eepster]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the baby in your belly.  Your baby will be a girl anyway, so it is truly a non-issue.

Your Dh is defending his own penis.  he needs to assert that he has a good penis.  Everything you have shown him has caused him to panic that he might not actually have the very best type of penis, so he needs to get others to say how much better his type of penis is.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by eepster 

This has absolutely nothing to do with the baby in your belly.  Your baby will be a girl anyway, so it is truly a non-issue.

Your Dh is defending his own penis.  he needs to assert that he has a good penis.  Everything you have shown him has caused him to panic that he might not actually have the very best type of penis, so he needs to get others to say how much better his type of penis is.

You know...I actually get that (sort of) about guys. But, if my dh ever finds it necessary to assert that he has the best type of penis, by encouraging people to tell my son that his (my son) penis is "gross", there will be hell to pay.

[skyblufig]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

Originally Posted by eepster 

This has absolutely nothing to do with the baby in your belly.  Your baby will be a girl anyway, so it is truly a non-issue.

Your Dh is defending his own penis.  he needs to assert that he has a good penis.  Everything you have shown him has caused him to panic that he might not actually have the very best type of penis, so he needs to get others to say how much better his type of penis is.

You know...I actually get that (sort of) about guys. But, if my dh ever finds it necessary to assert that he has the best type of penis, by encouraging people to tell my son that his (my son) penis is "gross", there will be hell to pay.

  (hell-to-pay)nth degree!

[treeoflife3]

I'm going to be honest.  I would divorce a man who behaved that way.  I'd be very thankful that the only child I have to deal with sharing custody with doesn't have a penis so it can remain a non issue once we aren't together anymore.  I might consider not leaving him if I didn't want more kids, but after getting all sorts of people in on our business in front of an intact CHILD not caring how it might hurt him, I'd struggle with ever being able to respect him again or being able to trust him with how he might speak around my son.

[Ron_Low]

It's shocking what people will put up with. 

He doesn't want or deserve a partner. 

[AnnDMFT]

Wow is right!   Thank God you are having a girl and thank God you protected your older son from circ'ing.

You are one smart mama!  Don't ever let anyone tell you differently!

I can't say whether or not I would end a marriage over the issue, I would tend to go with the poster who said: "He's not being circ'ed.  End of story.  If you don't like it, there's the door."  and let him walk.  I don't think we will ever know what we'll do in these situation until they actually happen! 

I wish you peace in your decision. 

[AnnDMFT]

Oh!  I forgot! 

The fact that he was saying those things in front of your Intact son is, to me, boderline verbally abusive.  If I were to end the marriage, it would be over that.  Him not having enough sense to keep his mouth shut in front of your (fabulous) Intact child.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

Originally Posted by eepster 

This has absolutely nothing to do with the baby in your belly.  Your baby will be a girl anyway, so it is truly a non-issue.

Your Dh is defending his own penis.  he needs to assert that he has a good penis.  Everything you have shown him has caused him to panic that he might not actually have the very best type of penis, so he needs to get others to say how much better his type of penis is.

You know...I actually get that (sort of) about guys. But, if my dh ever finds it necessary to assert that he has the best type of penis, by encouraging people to tell my son that his (my son) penis is "gross", there will be hell to pay.

I'm not saying the behavior is OK.  I just think it is necessary to understand where a behavior comes from in order to fix it.

Continuing to talk about why the baby she is carrying shouldn't be circ'd is just going to make him more and more defensive.  helping him understand that he doesn't need to defend his own penis can get him to move past this and start behaving in an appropriate manner again.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by eepster 

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

Originally Posted by eepster 

This has absolutely nothing to do with the baby in your belly.  Your baby will be a girl anyway, so it is truly a non-issue.

Your Dh is defending his own penis.  he needs to assert that he has a good penis.  Everything you have shown him has caused him to panic that he might not actually have the very best type of penis, so he needs to get others to say how much better his type of penis is.

You know...I actually get that (sort of) about guys. But, if my dh ever finds it necessary to assert that he has the best type of penis, by encouraging people to tell my son that his (my son) penis is "gross", there will be hell to pay.

I'm not saying the behavior is OK.  I just think it is necessary to understand where a behavior comes from in order to fix it.

Continuing to talk about why the baby she is carrying shouldn't be circ'd is just going to make him more and more defensive.  helping him understand that he doesn't need to defend his own penis can get him to move past this and start behaving in an appropriate manner again.

He's bringing it up from out of nowhere when they already know they're having a girl. I don't think this has much to do with OP continuing to talk about it, and has a lot to do with him being really obnoxious about it. I truly do think some understanding in this area is necessary, however, there is no way I'd be understanding about an attack like that on my son. Having to defend his own penis doesn't give him the right to attack, and encourage others to attack, his stepson's penis. He needs to grow up.

I understand where all kinds of unacceptable behaviour, in both children and adults, comes from. That doesn't mean I'm going to put up with it.

[ktgrok]

What if a boy turned out to have a bigger penis than your husband, would he want the boy to cut off a few inches to make it look like his? I mean seriously, a baby penis is not going to look like a grown up penis, circed or not. And by the time it is big enough to maybe look the same they won't be comparing.

[katelove]

To me circ is the secondary issue here. The primary issue for me is how disrespectful he is to his wife. Is this a pattern? Is it going to become one? What if OP and her baby want to breastfeed beyond a year, is he going to mock her in front of his family again? This is the issue that needs addressing at the moment IMO. The circ discussion can resume when he has learned how to treat a partner with respect.

[treeoflife3]

this exactly.  making it a huge mock fest in front of the family and in front of a CHILD whom this concerns (being that he is intact and all) is exactly why I'd struggle to ever have respect or trust in him and think i'd leave in a similar situation.  The issue isn't that he is against circ... it is how he is BEHAVING about it.  Extremely disrespectful and I agree with PP... borders on verbal abuse.
 

Originally Posted by katelove 

To me circ is the secondary issue here. The primary issue for me is how disrespectful he is to his wife. Is this a pattern? Is it going to become one? What if OP and her baby want to breastfeed beyond a year, is he going to mock her in front of his family again? This is the issue that needs addressing at the moment IMO. The circ discussion can resume when he has learned how to treat a partner with respect.

[lizzie]

ITA - it's bad enough he's all wrapped up in how his penis does or does not function, to the detriment of any little boys in the room, but the *major* issue for me would be the blatant disrespect he showed both OP and her son, and how he then further encouraged his entire family to be enthusiastically disrespectful of them both, particularly while it sounds like they were guests in her IL's home, possibly not having the keys in her possession to get up and walk out and leave her dh there to ponder his stupidity. Even if he did make an unexpected turn-around on circ as an issue, there's still a lot of work he needs to do to repair the damage and develop new communication skills.

I get that he is likely feeling disrespected and attacked based on how is penis (does not) look or (does not) function, but that's no excuse for that kind of treatment. What kind of guy brings that into public discussion, rather than keeping it private between his wife and himself? That's just sad, that he's so deeply insecure he'd throw his wife and stepson under the proverbial bus while publicly attempting to garner support for his own penis.