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Wow, I am ready to walk. - Page 2

post #21 of 31

I swear that if women thought as highly of mens' penises as men seem to, nobody would ever leave the house!

post #22 of 31

For your intact son's sake, you need to have a stern conversation with your husband that putting down intact penises in front of your DS is not allowed. Period. 

post #23 of 31

I haven't read the whole thread.  I think it is reprehensible that he is verbally attacking, mocking & criticizing you & your intact son.  Period.  Unacceptable, pathetic really.  Big hugs for your son. 

 

I didn't have to work really hard to convince my dh, but I was prepared to go to the mat over the issue.  I started off carefully though.  We read the mothering booklet together.  By the end dh was almost crying, he was crushed that his parents had made that choice for all 5 of their sons and knew we wouldn't make that choice for any of our boys.  As it turns out we have one boy & two girls.  We've had many conversations over the years about our intactavist beliefs, lol.  We hashed out the whole "look like me" weirdness.  I asked dh if he knew wether or not his Dad was circ'd, dh doesn't have any idea.  He doesn't have any recollection of ever seeing his Dad's penis.  So, maybe ask your dp what his Dad's penis looks like.  The whole locker room thing, dh says most of the guys were busy looking at the ceiling so they wouldn't get accused of checking out anyone's junk.  You could also check statistics for your area. 

 

On the whole ego side of things I absolutly reassured dh that his equipment (is) was very pleasing, iykwim. 

post #24 of 31

We would be going to counseling over this, full stop. If he refused counseling, I would be getting my ducks in a row to leave him. I am very against divorce, except in situations that are truly abusive. And mama, this man's behavior was beyond unacceptable, verging on abusive. Your poor little boy, having to hear that... bawling.gif

 

I'm so sorry. For what it's worth, you are absolutely right and he is absolutely wrong. I hope you're able to get him into therapy. hug.gifhug.gifhug.gif

post #25 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eepster View Post


I'm not saying the behavior is OK.  I just think it is necessary to understand where a behavior comes from in order to fix it.

 

Continuing to talk about why the baby she is carrying shouldn't be circ'd is just going to make him more and more defensive.  helping him understand that he doesn't need to defend his own penis can get him to move past this and start behaving in an appropriate manner again.


That's what I'm aiming for.  I made it clear that he is to say nothing negative about my son again.  Period.  I totally agree that this has more to do with feeling the need to adamently defend HIS bits, rather than anything else.  He also grew up in a home full of ignorance, which doesn't excuse his behaviour, but certainly helps explain it.  We ended up getting in a massive fight over the topic and separated ourselves for a few days, so I'm sure he now understands that it IS a "big deal" to cut off a part of a child when it's not necessary.  I even agreed that I'd totally circumsize a boy IF IT WAS MEDICALLY NECESSARY.  Ie: if the child is born and the doctor says "woah there, that's quite the problem, I think we should take care of it", then of course I'd entertain the idea.  But every single thing I read tells me that ROUTINE circumcision is absolutely not necessary.  You don't rip out the appendix and tonsils at birth simply because something "might" go wrong in the future and it's "easier" to do it to a baby who can't speak out and say "Hey, dudes, this totally sucks."

 

I also whipped out the stats that show that 97% of the freaking WORLD is intact, so that maybe he'd understand this isn't some sort of crazy weird thing I've come up with on my own...that his opinion is very much the minority.  It's a hard concept for him to grasp, because he grew up in an era where yeah, guys probably were made fun of in the locker room, and most of his friends were also cut.  He has every single one of his friends and family members on "his side", and that helps him to justify his opinion.  He doesn't understand that there's a whole world out there that doesn't share these views. =/



 

 
post #26 of 31

Stay strong.  Unless he is willing to come up with a rational argument for RIC, and weigh the advantages and disadvantages against the alternative of leaving him intact, then he is simply being emotional and using fear and emotional pleas to win his argument.  This is NOT how inteligent, rational people should come to agreement on decisions regarding the health of their children.

 

Instead, parents have the obligation to decide based on the best interests of their children.  Weigh all the consequneces, in a way that any rational person could see why they decided the way they did.  Not emotional people terrorized by the fearmongering and misinformation that pro circ'rs feed them.

 

 If he cannot do this, then the default should be leave your son intact.

 

His body, his choice.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with waiting, indeed it can be argued that RIC is the wrong time to do a circumcision because it is impossible for the doictor to predict the outcome with any certainty, simply because an infant's genitals are not yet developed.

 

Regards

post #27 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg B View Post

Stay strong.  Unless he is willing to come up with a rational argument for RIC, and weigh the advantages and disadvantages against the alternative of leaving him intact, then he is simply being emotional and using fear and emotional pleas to win his argument.  This is NOT how inteligent, rational people should come to agreement on decisions regarding the health of their children.

 

Instead, parents have the obligation to decide based on the best interests of their children.  Weigh all the consequneces, in a way that any rational person could see why they decided the way they did.  Not emotional people terrorized by the fearmongering and misinformation that pro circ'rs feed them.

 

 If he cannot do this, then the default should be leave your son intact.

 

His body, his choice.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with waiting, indeed it can be argued that RIC is the wrong time to do a circumcision because it is impossible for the doictor to predict the outcome with any certainty, simply because an infant's genitals are not yet developed.

 

Regards


I wanted to add that alot of times pro-circers really do try to use emotions to promote their agenda. And then they say that intactivists are the emotional and fearmongerers amongst us. It is NOT rational to cut up babies. It is NOT rational to want a child's genitals to look like its parents (male or female). It is NOT rational to use one's sexual preference to determine surgery for their child. It is NOT rational to perform cosmetic alterations to children. It IS rational to protect your child.

 

After reading over information, I would just tell him case closed. Don't bring it up again. After a son is born, a RATIONAL person will see that you are right. This has happened with my dh. He wondered, I told him in no uncertain terms. And left it to him to come to terms. I did tell him on our first date. That way he coudl walk away, no harm no foul. That is why I love him. He stayed.

post #28 of 31


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzie View Post

ITA - it's bad enough he's all wrapped up in how his penis does or does not function, to the detriment of any little boys in the room, but the *major* issue for me would be the blatant disrespect he showed both OP and her son, and how he then further encouraged his entire family to be enthusiastically disrespectful of them both, particularly while it sounds like they were guests in her IL's home, possibly not having the keys in her possession to get up and walk out and leave her dh there to ponder his stupidity. Even if he did make an unexpected turn-around on circ as an issue, there's still a lot of work he needs to do to repair the damage and develop new communication skills.

 

I get that he is likely feeling disrespected and attacked based on how is penis (does not) look or (does not) function, but that's no excuse for that kind of treatment. What kind of guy brings that into public discussion, rather than keeping it private between his wife and himself? That's just sad, that he's so deeply insecure he'd throw his wife and stepson under the proverbial bus while publicly attempting to garner support for his own penis.


That put it all really well! I mean, sure the poor guy is hurting and defensive, but that doesn't excuse berating and belittling you and your son. However, I wouldn't leave him over it IF he is willing to work on working through his issues and treating you and your son as he should. IF he doesn't do that needed work and improvement, then I'd consider ending the relationship, if he keeps on treating you and your children so poorly and shows no interest in changing.

 

Just wanted to chime in on your remarks about having a circumcision done if/when it becomes medically necessary. Beware American doctors!! They will take one look at the foreskin and tell you it is a big problem and needs to be removed! I have an intact adult friend, he told me that every time he went to the doctor as a child, the doctor told his mom that he HAD to have a circumcision for one reason or another. She stood firm, he is intact, and he NEVER EVER had a problem at all. Despite the dire predictions of the doctors wanting to cut him. And this is what goes on with a child who is having NO issues with his penis. It's even worse if you are at the doctor's for a problem, be it diaper rash or a uti or separation trauma..... they can't just treat the issue, they always want to cut. So be very careful if you're ever told your son has a medical need for a circumcision. Chances are he doesn't! For evidence, I would say look at countries where they don't routinely circumcise in the first place. They also very very rarely circumcise at any point in life for any reason. So, if say, only 1 in 10,000 men in Denmark ever lose their foreskin for any reason (I think that is the statistic), how can it be that all these intact boys in the US have doctors telling them (or their parents) that they "need" a circumcision??

 

 

post #29 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenP View Post


 


That put it all really well! I mean, sure the poor guy is hurting and defensive, but that doesn't excuse berating and belittling you and your son. However, I wouldn't leave him over it IF he is willing to work on working through his issues and treating you and your son as he should. IF he doesn't do that needed work and improvement, then I'd consider ending the relationship, if he keeps on treating you and your children so poorly and shows no interest in changing.

 

Just wanted to chime in on your remarks about having a circumcision done if/when it becomes medically necessary. Beware American doctors!! They will take one look at the foreskin and tell you it is a big problem and needs to be removed! I have an intact adult friend, he told me that every time he went to the doctor as a child, the doctor told his mom that he HAD to have a circumcision for one reason or another. She stood firm, he is intact, and he NEVER EVER had a problem at all. Despite the dire predictions of the doctors wanting to cut him. And this is what goes on with a child who is having NO issues with his penis. It's even worse if you are at the doctor's for a problem, be it diaper rash or a uti or separation trauma..... they can't just treat the issue, they always want to cut. So be very careful if you're ever told your son has a medical need for a circumcision. Chances are he doesn't! For evidence, I would say look at countries where they don't routinely circumcise in the first place. They also very very rarely circumcise at any point in life for any reason. So, if say, only 1 in 10,000 men in Denmark ever lose their foreskin for any reason (I think that is the statistic), how can it be that all these intact boys in the US have doctors telling them (or their parents) that they "need" a circumcision??

 

 


How true. Very nicely put. I also think it is 1 in 10,000. I also read that somewhere while researching a paper for school. I think I read that on American medical website, to boot.

post #30 of 31

Women who don't believe in circumcision are a minority in this country right now.  The battle to reverse the trend to circumcize in America is in it's infancy and there will be a long, drawn out battle ahead of us.  We have to start in our own homes, with our husbands and partners, no matter what it takes.   Someday, our husbands will or will not understand, but I believe with each generation of boys who are left intact, the tide will turn in favor of more American couples choosing NOT to circumcize......after all....."dad" (our sons grown up) never was and he's just fine the way he is......it will take time, but we have to stand firm and fight the good fight. My husband was furious with me too, he was cruel, angry, insulting, he ignored me, refused to help with our infant son.....the whole 9  yards........things have settled down, our son is 3 now, but he still disagrees with me.  We just don't talk about it anymore.  I'm pregnant again and don't know what I'm having, but interestingly, this time, he doesn't even ask or bring it up. He knows I will never relent on that issue.   There's nothing to discuss.  

post #31 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by catholic74 View Post

Women who don't believe in circumcision are a minority in this country right now.  The battle to reverse the trend to circumcize in America is in it's infancy and there will be a long, drawn out battle ahead of us.  We have to start in our own homes, with our husbands and partners, no matter what it takes.   Someday, our husbands will or will not understand, but I believe with each generation of boys who are left intact, the tide will turn in favor of more American couples choosing NOT to circumcize......after all....."dad" (our sons grown up) never was and he's just fine the way he is......it will take time, but we have to stand firm and fight the good fight. My husband was furious with me too, he was cruel, angry, insulting, he ignored me, refused to help with our infant son.....the whole 9  yards........things have settled down, our son is 3 now, but he still disagrees with me.  We just don't talk about it anymore.  I'm pregnant again and don't know what I'm having, but interestingly, this time, he doesn't even ask or bring it up. He knows I will never relent on that issue.   There's nothing to discuss.  


Exactly. This is why i think that if Mama's stood up, it would end rather quickly.

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