A logical consequence? I think I'm in the right here.

[mom2happy]

DD (almost 8) throws things when she gets angry. She never did this as a toddler or basically EVER.

She started doing it at 7 years old. It has become a habit and she has begun hurling things at me.

She was throwing things just to be really rude and get her anger out. Things like; socks, clothing, stuffed animals.... things that were light weight and couldnt hurt anyone. Nothing was stopping her and before I knew it things would just be flying. This turned into a habit and she was doing it EVERY day!

The objects started getting heavier and she wasnt even thinking about what she was doing.

One day she hit me hard with a box and it bruised my thigh.

I told her that from now on if you can't stop your self from throwing things, you will lose the object that you throw.

The next time she got angry the only thing near her to throw at me was her favorite shoe.

I very calmly told her that she would'nt be getting it back. She sobbed and told me how mean I was and what I was.

Oh well.

She smartened up the next day and threw something at me that was not important. I warned her if it happened again, she would lose one of her dolls. It happened. I took it. She has not thrown one thing at me since then.

She was incredibly upset, but has been telling me she loves me and it even seems like she is less angry lately.

It's like she needed to know that I'm not fooling around anymore.

None of the love chats and trying to help her figure out what to do when she was angry were working.

I just feel like this was more of a punishment. I couldnt think of any other logical thing to do when she kept throwing things. Talking about it wasnt working, taking privileges, sending her to her room.... nothing!

Any opinion on this? Any similar stories about things you have done to stop out of control behaviors?

[RollerCoasterMama]

I think at that age and after everything else you tried...it completely makes sense.  Esp if she's throwing things that could hurt people! 

I also think that it's very interesting that she was able to turn it off as soon as she realized you were serious and that the consequence was going to happen.  A habit would be harder to break and take some additional reminders you'd think. 

My own interpretation of "logical consequence" is pretty straight-forward.  They should be related.  And really, the natural next step of what happened...be it negative or positive. 

I might not have changed the rule to reinterpret "if you throw it, you lose it" to "if you throw it, you lose something you love" without discussing it first.  But I wasn't there, I don't know your daughter, and I completely understand the frustration if it seemed like she was trying to work around the new consequence.  And perhaps...if she has a fabulous week or month or whatever, you might even be able to return the items she lost to show her you know how hard she worked to overcome that negative habit.  But again...I don't know how that would play out in your house with your daughter. 

Good luck!! 

[mamaofthree]

i don't know if it is exactly "logical" or not, but it seems to have worked. that box could have easily hit you in the head, and although i am all for letting them express themselves and get their anger out throwing objects AT people isn't ok.

i think you handled it well.

h

[nextcommercial]

Well, in theory, that should work.  But, she's smart, and choosing things that she doesn't care about.  Which says to me, that she's in control of her choices.  She's not that upset that she can't think things through first.

But, she's only learning that you are taking her toys, she's not learning how to show she's angry without throwing things.  

You have kept your cool for a long time though!  I'd have lost my temper way before she started throwing heavy objects.

She's 8.. not 18 months.  Talk to her. Tell her "I'm tired of these tantrums, you are too old to throw things".  Then, discuss what she can do instead.  (these would be ideas from her, not just you)  Tell her how she looks to you, and how much it bothers you.  It's fine to be mad, but, it's not fine to throw things.  You guys can discuss what SHE thinks would be a good consequence for throwing, and talk about what she thinks you should do, or take away if she throws something... and how long it should be taken away.

Ask her what she thinks it looks like to others.  What if she was watching a video of another 8 year old who was throwing objects at her mother.  Would she think that was fine too?  Or is it just fine for her?  Get her perspective, and give her your perspective.   This is one of those things that will bother her when she's an adult, and she's going to realize how silly it was, and then wonder why you allowed it.

[mom2happy]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial 

She's 8.. not 18 months.  Talk to her. Tell her "I'm tired of these tantrums, you are too old to throw things".  Then, discuss what she can do instead.  (these would be ideas from her, not just you)  Tell her how she looks to you, and how much it bothers you.  It's fine to be mad, but, it's not fine to throw things.  You guys can discuss what SHE thinks would be a good consequence for throwing, and talk about what she thinks you should do, or take away if she throws something... and how long it should be taken away.

Ask her what she thinks it looks like to others.  What if she was watching a video of another 8 year old who was throwing objects at her mother.  Would she think that was fine too?  Or is it just fine for her?  Get her perspective, and give her your perspective.   This is one of those things that will bother her when she's an adult, and she's going to realize how silly it was, and then wonder why you allowed it.

I can't even tell you the amount of times and ways we have had this conversation and gone over everything you've mentioned.

Her idea is to have consequences like; no tv for the day, going to bed early. I even tried to oblidge her on them. No luck.

She basically wants to be able to blow off steam, go off to read a book or play with stuffed animals and then she feels fine.

The thing is though, that no one else feels fine when they are the object of her scorn. She knows all of this.

Frankly I think I've been giving too much weight to the ranting and raving of a child and in my quest to be the most understanding compassionate person I can be to my DD- I might have allowed her down this path.

Like I said, DS is fine with my parenting style. He is much more aware of his choices and the impact it has on others. He wants to be happy and for everyone else to be too.

DD is very self absorbed (not that I think that's bad and I know it's a personality type). She can't get out of her own way. I'm seeing that some things that are very hard for me to do are the only things that are making her think.

[mom2happy]

Originally Posted by mamaofthree 

i don't know if it is exactly "logical" or not, but it seems to have worked. that box could have easily hit you in the head,

 The shoe hit me in the back of the neck. I have a 9 month old baby here too. I just had to do SOMETHING.

I think me not giving the shoe back after it hit me in the neck was incredilby logical.

The doll, not so much, but she thinks it's logical because I said that was what I was going to do.

[RollerCoasterMama]

Egh.  Can't quote.  OP...I think I missed that you actually talked to your daughter about the doll before the incident occurred.  If that's the case, then I take back my earlier comment.  If she knew that consequence ahead of time, then it's a different thing altogether than changing the rule because she threw something she didn't care about.  Maybe losing a doll isn't the most natural consequence in the world for throwing something else, but at the same time, if it was a pre-defined consequence, I don't have an issue with it.  If she was 4 or 5, totally different discussion, but she's 8 years old and absolutely capable of understanding the cause and effect here.  And obviously very capable of controlling her own actions since she was able to stop so quickly.

I still think that maybe having her earn them back eventually might be a nice plan now that she's trying hard. 

I think if you hyperanalyzed every consequence at my house, they might not all seem super logical to an outsider either.  I try not to do something as a punishment, but there are direct consequences (positive and negative) to certain behaviors.  When all else fails, you need to do what needs to be done for the safety of everyone in the house.  You demonstrated that this particular safety boundary was very real.  She knows it.  And she adjusted her behavior accordingly.  Now that things are safe, maybe you'll be able to have more success helping her release her anger in other ways. 

[mamaofthree]

OP: geeze! a shoe to the neck! good night! much more calm then i would have been. how has it been going the last few days?

h

[Think of Winter]

Sounds like a success story to me, mama.  Good for you.

Have you considered giving the things back after a certain interval has passed? 

[mom2happy]

Originally Posted by mamaofthree 

OP: geeze! a shoe to the neck! good night! much more calm then i would have been. how has it been going the last few days?

h

She still hasn't thrown anything at me. She started to aim my slipper at me last night when I wouldn't give her anymore cereal, but she stopped.

Instead she called me every name in the (2nd graders) book. I said "Good night". It was almost bed time anyway.

If the shoe in the neck really hurt, I probably would not have remained so cool. Fortunately it was from a far distance so it didn't have much power left before it hit.

I really thought about it hitting me in the eye, or hitting the baby and I realize this has to STOP!

Unfortunately, those were her favorite pair. She does have rather good aim though.
 

[mom2happy]

Originally Posted by Think of Winter 

Sounds like a success story to me, mama.  Good for you.

Have you considered giving the things back after a certain interval has passed? 

 Yes we have tried that. As long as she knows it will be hers again, she has no motivation to stop doing what she is doing.

It seems like she is stuck in these out of control reactions. This is a very harsh thing for me to do and I feel terrible, but she just is not getting it.

She's got a little bit of a missing link. I don't mean that in a bad way. I think other parts of her brain are superior to her social development parts.

I believe it's what causes an imbalance.