When do we stop trying for #2?

[tryingfortwo]

Not sure what forum to post this in, and I also know there are similar threads out there, so I hope it's okay if I start my own here.

To quickly summarize, DS will be 4 in April.  We've been TTCing #2 for just over 2 years now.  Growing up, I always thought I would have 2 kids, and DH comes from a family of 7, so I don't think either of us really considered having only 1 child.  However, I feel like after 2 years, we've gotten to the point of trying because we're trying, and trying to figure out why we're not getting PG, and we haven't really asked ourselves if we still want another child.  It's much different to imagine having a new baby now that DS will be at least 4.5 years old by the time the baby arrives, as opposed to only 2.5.  He's been potty trained for over a year, recently weaned, sleeps through the night, etc.  And he's never been the child who asks for a sibling - in fact, whenever I ask him if he wants a brother or a sister, he's quite positive that he doesn't

There are obviously many things to consider when making our decision: the financial costs of having a second, the adjustment for all of us with a new baby, the possible regret if we don't keep trying, the fact that DS would be an only child with no family/cousins nearby, etc.  I'm not one of those people who feels like our family is incomplete or missing something, but I also don't know for sure that we're done.    When thinking about it before, I had kind of decided we'd keep trying until the end of this year - I figured a 5.5 year gap between kids was the biggest I wanted, and we would have been trying for 3 years.  But now I'm wondering if maybe that's even too long.  It probably doesn't help that I saw a friend's newborn yesterday and was reminded of what a huge adjustment it would be to have a new baby.  As well, DH is making some rather significant decisions about what medications to take for a health issue, depending on which ones impact sperm production or not.

So anyways, I know that no one can answer this question for me, but I just am not sure how to decide if we should stop trying.  I almost feel ambivalent about it - I don't really have a strong feeling either way.  I think the only thing I know I'd be sad about it would be knowing I'd never have a daughter - but of course, there's not guarantee that we'd have a girl if we do have a second child, and if we had another boy, I would be thrilled, but still sad about never having a daughter, if that makes sense. 

It just would be so nice to be able to move forward one way or the other.  I feel like my life is kind of on hold while we are trying, because I don't know if we'll have another child, so we keep all the baby stuff, don't make major plans that would be impacted if we had a baby, etc.  Ugh, it's such a hard decision, and I don't know if there is a right answer.

Anyways, thanks for reading :)  If anyone has experienced something similar, I would really appreciate hearing about it!

[ShanaV]

It sucks that you've had such a tough time! Maybe take the route of "it'll happen if it happens" and try not to worry about it so much. Easier said than done, though, right? I know it's so hard to not fret. But I find that's how things work -- as soon as I stop obsessing over something, it falls into place. 

Maybe try some Clomid, if you haven't already? It sounds like you would really like to have a second.

It's totally possible to get pregnant again even after 2 years without success. And it's OK to have several years between kids! Hey, your son could be a good helper to you with a new baby, since you won't have to worry about tending to his every need every moment of the day.

[~Amy~]

I think *I* personally would not try any "heroic measures" to get pregnant if my son was that age.  We didn't get pregnant with #2 as quickly as we had planned/hoped to and I was beginning to think that maybe our son would be an only and I was okay with that.  Our son was potty trained, sleeping well, etc, by the time we did get pregnant (I'm 30 weeks now).  As much as I do want this baby, I'm really not looking forward to the sleepless nights & the diapers again...I'm totally spoiled by my potty trained, good sleeper...LOL.  Good luck to you whatever you decide, it's not an easy decision, that's for sure.

[dakotablue]

I don't know...I have always wanted a big family so personal opinion won't help.

Have you been charting? have you tried any low intervention meds (like clomid)?

I guess what I'm saying is maybe try some none HUGE effort things so you feel like you've tried and then if your comfortable stopping stop without any regrets.

[Dandelionkid]

The baby stage is so short that I don't feel that argument (no sleep etc) has as much weight as other arguments. 5.5 or even 6.5 sounds like a really nice gap in terms of your older child accepting the work and newness of a sibling. In my case. ambivalence, and listing pros and cons was a sign that I really did want another one.

Good luck!

[tryingfortwo]

Thank you for the replies so far.  I know this is a decision that only DH and I can make, but it's still nice to hear other people's thoughts :)

To answer a few questions - I have charted off and on throughout the 2 years we've been trying.  I actually charted for 3+ years before having DS, to avoid, so I'm very comfortable with it and know my cycle well.  I know there's pretty much no way we've timed things incorrectly for the vast majority of my cycles.  They are quite regular, which helps, but also makes us wonder why we aren't getting PG.

I do have a prescription for Clomid, but right now I'm working with an acupuncturist and naturopath to see if there's something else that's going on.  I do ovulate (and have had blood tests to confirm that, as well as an HSG to make sure my tubes are open; DH's SA has also come back with great results), so I'm not sure if Clomid will do anything to help.  But if we still aren't getting PG after working with the acupuncturist and naturopath, then we'll definitey give Clomid a try - that is, if we decide to keep trying.  We definitely don't plan to do IUI or IVF or anything more invasive.  We also don't feel adoption is a path for us.

I'm not sure why I'm so concerned about a bigger age gap.  I think that is my main reason for being unsure about trying still.  Well, that and the fact that I just don't think I can keep on going indefinitely.  It's hard to have our lives on hold, wondering if another child is coming or not.  I'm saving all the baby stuff, I'm constantly making sure future plans could be adjusted/appropriate if we happen to have a newborn there, etc.  It's just a hard place to be mentally - I don't think I could do this for more than another year.  At that point, I'd just want to accept us as a 3 member family and move on with that.  But I guess now I'm just wondering if I want to do this for another year, or just accept it now and move on.  Such a hard decision!

[rubidoux]

It took us almost 4.5 yrs to conceive #2 and by the time we did I was feeling very ambivalent.  I wasn't worried about baby stuff.  I never had sleepless nights with my babies and I adore all the baby stuff, even diapers.  But I had lost track of those initial excited ttc feelings and had had so much anxiety about it that it wasn't fun, or even right.  It was really pretty awful.  And I was also really starting to have fears about how it was going to effect my relationship with my first.  

Our problem turned out to be totally male-factor, which I think made dh feel terribly guilty.  So, he wanted to pull out all the stops, whereas I was just feeling exhausted and beat up by it and wanting to move on.  We ended up doing two IUI cycles and got pg on the second.  And I was still sooooo ambivalent!  It was actually a little scary for me.  But I think the truth of the matter was that I wanted it so bad that I couldn't enjoy it for fear of having it not work out.  

Now Augie is about to turn two and I think all the time about how I could have given up and how incredibly happy I am that we didn't.  It amazes me that having him is exactly what I thought it would be during the times that I was feeling most optimistic about being pregnant.  I was an only child and I wanted so badly to have a lively home that wasn't boring or dull or lonely.  I had this terrible image of me and dh and Milo trudging through lonely, quiet xmas mornings.  This last xmas was so amazing!  I got the kids way too much, but somewhere in there was this ten dollar tent from Ikea and they must have spent three hours playing in it, laughing at the top of their lungs and having a blast.  They are 5.5 years apart, but they have so much fun together!  

I had really wanted two boys *close* in age, but so far the age difference has been really nice for us.  I think there was a lot of good stuff in Milo getting to be an only for so long.  And I think there will probably be a lot less rivalry between them.  

I would have to vote for "don't give up."

[crunchy_mommy]

I think I get what you mean... my DS is still little (just turned 2) but we've been TTC #2 for well over a year now (with near-perfect timing) and it's just not happening. I always wanted my kids a year or two apart at most. Every decision we make is with the idea of having another baby around... everything from taking a new job, to remodeling the house, to financial planning, purchases, etc. But the longer this goes on, the harder it gets to be excited & happy to plan, and the more it becomes almost a burden to be constantly trying & planning, with no results. I also don't feel like I'm fully enjoying life now, because I'm thinking so much about what's next, if that makes sense. The last few months I've really started to wonder if DS will maybe be an only child. I have always wanted to adopt & it's something I still hope to do someday but right now it is so far out of our financial means that it's not likely to be a reality for many years, if at all. I always planned on having multiple kids (DH & I each grew up with 3 siblings) and having just one wasn't even something I'd considered. DS was incredibly high needs until the last few months, and I'm terrified of going through that whole first 1-2 years again, especially now that our life is finally settling down with DS and I can see the 'fun' in having a child instead of just the stress. So many different thoughts going through my head!! I will not do any kind of IVF or IUI or most fertility analyses/treatments -- primarily for moral reasons -- so if we aren't able to conceive naturally & adoption is out of our reach for the time being, I guess I need to start considering the possibility that DS could be our only child. I can only imagine what you're going through, seeing as you've been trying a year longer & your DS is already older. I am not going to 'give up' (we wouldn't try to avoid) but we may just stop really *trying* if nothing happens in the next ~6mos or so. I can only take so much of the trying/hoping/disappointment cycle repeating itself month after month after month, and part of me already just wants to move on with my life.

[dakotablue]

Originally Posted by tryingfortwo 

Thank you for the replies so far.  I know this is a decision that only DH and I can make, but it's still nice to hear other people's thoughts :)

To answer a few questions - I have charted off and on throughout the 2 years we've been trying.  I actually charted for 3+ years before having DS, to avoid, so I'm very comfortable with it and know my cycle well.  I know there's pretty much no way we've timed things incorrectly for the vast majority of my cycles.  They are quite regular, which helps, but also makes us wonder why we aren't getting PG.

I do have a prescription for Clomid, but right now I'm working with an acupuncturist and naturopath to see if there's something else that's going on.  I do ovulate (and have had blood tests to confirm that, as well as an HSG to make sure my tubes are open; DH's SA has also come back with great results), so I'm not sure if Clomid will do anything to help.  But if we still aren't getting PG after working with the acupuncturist and naturopath, then we'll definitey give Clomid a try - that is, if we decide to keep trying.  We definitely don't plan to do IUI or IVF or anything more invasive.  We also don't feel adoption is a path for us.

I'm not sure why I'm so concerned about a bigger age gap.  I think that is my main reason for being unsure about trying still.  Well, that and the fact that I just don't think I can keep on going indefinitely.  It's hard to have our lives on hold, wondering if another child is coming or not.  I'm saving all the baby stuff, I'm constantly making sure future plans could be adjusted/appropriate if we happen to have a newborn there, etc.  It's just a hard place to be mentally - I don't think I could do this for more than another year.  At that point, I'd just want to accept us as a 3 member family and move on with that.  But I guess now I'm just wondering if I want to do this for another year, or just accept it now and move on.  Such a hard decision!

I just wanted to put this out there, although it may not be true at all for you, I was having regular cycles for a while before DS (though irregular before the months of regular) with assumed O, but it ended up I wasn't actually releasing eggs. For DS I became pregnant after clomid and HCG trigger, which forced the egg to release.

Its funny because I hadn't heard of it before myself, but figured I'd put it out there as something to check. Could you do an ultrasound monitored natural cycle?  (where they do an ultrasound just before O and after to see release?

[rubidoux]

Gosh, my dh thought I was being a drama queen when I said that I couldn't stand the trying anymore after 4+ years.  lol  In a way, I'm happy to hear you guys say it, bc even though I know it was real, I hate to think I was just being dramatic.  It is really hard to keep trying.  I'm sorry you all are going through it, OP and crunchy mommy.

Do be careful about how you talk about fertility stuff around "mixed company".  lol  Those of us with little IUI's and IVF's running around the house think they are morally just awesome.  ;)  We also think it's not quite fair.  And we also know it's impossible to understand how it all works and feels if you haven't btdt.  There was a time that I swore I wouldn't take any heroic measures.  Now I am so thankful every day that I did.

[crunchy_mommy]

Hope I didn't offend, rubidoux (and anyone else), just stating why it's not an option for *me*, not whether or not I think anyone else should! I try so hard to chose my words carefully but I never know how someone else might read it... very sorry if I did offend anyone!!!

And wow, 4+ years, that's rough!!! Why on earth did your DH think you were being 'dramatic'?!?! I'd be a basketcase after that long....

[tryingfortwo]

rubidoux, thank you so much for sharing your experience.  It was really great for me to read about someone who has btdt, especially with respect to a larger age gap.  I think maybe part of my concern about a big gap is that I've never really seen it first hand - all of my family and friends have at least 2 kids, with no more than maybe 3-4 years in between.  So all I see is the benefit of having 2 kids close in age, playing together and having fun, and I feel like DS won't get to experience that.  So anyways, it's very helpful for me to know that kids with a larger gap can still have fun together and be close.  And I definitely don't think you were being overly dramatic - it is SO difficult to have no control over this, and to not know what the future holds.  I could never have understood the true emotional impact of infertility if I hadn't gone through it - and I do think it's a different thing for me and women.  Not worse for either, necessarily, just different.  And I hope that none of my comments about IUI or IVF were offensive - it definitely wasn't intended if they were, as I have no issues with other people choosing that route.  It's just not something DH and I are interested in doing, mostly because of the financial impact.

dakotablue, that's an interesting question that I've never had answered.  Would my charts still indicate ovulation (ie a temperature rise), even if I wasn't releasing an egg?  Anyways, if nothing shows up with the acupuncturist, I'll definitely ask my ObGyn about it.  It's worth ruling out.

And crunchy_mommy, I absolutely know what you mean when you say you don't feel like you're fully enjoying life right now.  I've said to DH, that it's like my life is on hold until we know one way or the other if we will have another child.  I try not to let it hold me back from things, but of course it's always in the back of my mind, and it's inevitable that it will affect major decisions.  I think that's probably the most frustrating thing, the not knowing.  If someone told me today that we'd never have more kids, I would be sad, but I think I would also be relieved and I would move on and be okay.  Anyways, I hope you get your BFP soon - I understand what you are going through, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone!

[rubidoux]

I'm sorry you guys, I probably shouldn't have even said anything.  I'm not really even very sensitive about it, probably bc it just worked out perfectly in our lives.  There's no question for me that it was right.  No worries!

Tryingfortwo, As much as I once really wanted two babies super close together, my current fantasy is to have one every five years or so.  I am 41 now, though, and my tubes are tied.  So, it's probably not in the cards for us.    But I have really started to come around to believing *this* is the better way.  Maybe that's just bc I want to believe it.  But so far, I can't imagine any of us being happier.  I do worry that Augie will be lonely when Milo goes off to college or whatever he does.  But we'll have to cross that bridge when we get there.  A friend of mine is about to have her second with a 7.5 year age difference and maybe it'll turn out that that's just perfect, or will be for them.

[widemouthedfrog]

I never wanted a large age gap between kids, and swore that 5 years was way too much. Currently I have a 5 1/2 year old and would still love to have another one (probably through adoption for us). However, since dh is not interested, I do feel like life is moving on a bit.

I understand your feeling of being separated from the baby stage, but I also feel like at this point I have a lot more wisdom about parenting and patience than I did with the first. Also, in spite of insisting that a 5+ year age gap was just silly, I can still see our family working like that, much better than if we'd had two close together.

Maybe stop trying for a while and take a designated month or three to reflect on your situation? For me, it took dh saying he wasn't interested for me to say that perhaps we could have another later.

[Shaki]

OP I've been where you are! The hardest part for me was the internal pressure I put on myself to conceive and external pressure I felt I was getting from outside forces like my mom. Once I started really considering the idea of only having one child and released myself from that pressure things felt better.

And...Well... my first DD is 5 and we've got our number 2 coming soon--he's Due in April. He's a welcome and happy surprise. We tried for about 2-3 years to get pregnant with number 2 with no luck. My sister got pregnant with her number 2 around the time that I was facing what I thought to be  the hard fact that we were going to be a one child family. Wasn't an easy place to be. But eventually I started just really becoming comfortable with the idea  of our family being Me, DD, and DH. After I had gone so far as telling my MIL (and anyone else who asked) not to expect any more children from us, I found out I was pregnant. So...you never know I guess :).

Anyway we had stopped planning for more than one child, we had given away baby stuff etc. So I guess my advice is go ahead and let yourself live with the idea of having a singelton, go ahead and give away baby stuff, go ahead and tell yourself you're not trying. Stop worrying about the age gap thing. BUT don't use birth control and keep having sex (for FUN)! Let yourself just do that for a while, maybe 6 months or more, and then reevaluate at that time. You may decide after a period of "not trying but not preventing" that you want to step it up again and go for clomid or whatever, or you may decide to keep on "not trying but not preventing", or you may decide you're happy with your family as is and no longer want a second....or you may already have a little surprise waiting to come into the world.

I can tell you this; getting more baby gear after having gotten rid of some ain't that hard... especially if you have friends with young kids who are looking for some place to park their handmedowns. So at least don't sweat that part of it!

Best of luck to you.

:)

[mkksmom]

I've been where you are. The age difference worries. I was just thinking how I wished I knew how much of a non-issue it would be when I was TTC. I promised myself that I would make sure to reply to mommas wondering about this because I stressed so much about it.

When my 1st dd was 2, we started TTC. We had no luck until I had dh remove soy from his diet for 3 months. Got pregnant that next try, only to miscarry. Went on to have 2 more miscarriages within 6 months from the first. Went to an RE to figure out what was going on. I was at the top of my healthy BMI and that was just enough to push me to have some very mild insulin issues. Enough that I did ovulate, but the eggs weren't healthy. I ovulated later in my cycle and the second half of the cycle was too short for implantation. I had to take metformin for a couple of months at a low dose and lose weight before the RE would even consider treatment. I did that and was able to have blood work to confirm that the insulin issue was cleared up, but I still wasn't ovulating properly. I knew it in my gut and asked him to monitor me one more cycle with bloodwork and ultrasound. He did, I was right, and i ended up needing tamoxifen (usually used for cancer-- like a mild clomid). We tried that with 2 rounds of IUI and had no luck. For us, the IUI was too much stress. The collection, the whole process. We had one mor eshot with the tamoxifen before we'd have to move to injections or even IVF and we decided to skip the IUI and try the every other day on our own method. It worked!!

My older dd is 6.5 now and the baby is 16 months. There are 5 years and 3 months between them and I never expected them to be such good friends. I thought maybe when they were older. But they make up their own games and the love between them is like nothing i ever imagined possible. I can't believe I wasted so much time worrying about age difference. So take the pressure off and don't let age difference be the deciding factor. I know this time is sooo hard, but it's temporary. You'll figure it out, and it'll be easier to figure it out if you can find a way to get rid of that pressure. Easy for me to say on this side of it, but just keep reminding yourself when those thoughts crop up.

[tryingfortwo]

Thank you again for all of the responses - it's really helping to put my mind at ease about the larger age-gap, and about still trying in general.  I'm sure part of the problem is just not knowing anyone IRL who is going through, or who has gone through, something similar.  And I'm learning that secondary infertility has it's own issues - I recently joined a local infertility support group, but I'm the only one who already has a child, and so I am asking myself different questions than the rest of the group.  I'm so lucky to be a mother already, and so my questions are the ones I listed above, ones that someone who doesn't have any kids obviously wouldn't be thinking about.  So anyways, it's been a very isolating experience for me - to watch all of my family and friends expand their families with relative ease, and for them not to understand the emotions that come along with infertility, but then to also not really fit in with those dealing with primary infertility, who haven't yet experienced the joys of parenthood.  The posts here have been very reassuring for me - to know that others have gone through this and things have worked out okay.  So thank you again for responding :)

[mkksmom]

Ugh! I remember that part of it too. So hard not really fitting in anywhere. We had no trouble at all conceiving my first, so we didn't even have one triumph over infertility under our belts. I wonder if there is a forum out there for secondary infertility.

I think if I were in your shoes, I'd have dh take meds that were compatible with TTC, if possible, and take a month off from focusing on TTC. If you haven't already, I'd make sure they monitor one cycle with ultrasound and blood work because blood work is only one part of the puzzle and go from there. But really, the number/age-gap limits can be completely gone at this point. I know it sucks (for lack of a better word), but I had to accept that my plan was not going to work out. Throw myself a pity party and then move on. You know what? There really is hardly any difference between a 5 year age-gap and a 7 year age-gap. I also learned, and this is important, that 3 years apart, my big plan, was no good for me. I am the type to really dive in and give my babies my all. I am more of a fan of the toddler years once I teach them to sleep (still working on that with this LO). I am able to do more with a 5 year age-gap because my 6 yo is off in school. I homeschooled her last year, and DD6 was independent enough that I could set her up doing something and go feed the baby. I needed to have her sleeping well because I'm already going insane with exhaustion from one waking. The very rare nights that DD6 wakes for some reason are ridiculous. The only reason I wanted them closer was so they would be best friends, and they are. Now, we are done. We know what it takes to get pregnant, but after having 2 kids with the 5 year gap, I wouldn't want to do a 2 or 3 year gap and I don't want to be TTC at advanced maternal age when I started having my fertility problems at 29. I feel like my body started the advanced maternal age stuff early as it is. So, we are done.

Hang in there. (((Hugs)))

[Lisa1970]

I would quit when menopause hits.

I spent several years TTC number 3 and number 7 (but number 3 and number 6 died, so really, only 5 children at home, my third child was premature and my 6th child, my water broke after a car accident and he died while I was in labor).

[Lisa1970]

I will say I have had great success with Femara. Insurance usually covers it. Clomid never worked for me. I was going to say that it took me a long time to get #1 too, you just were not asking about first borns.