In case you haven't gotten your daily dose of outrage...

[katroshka]

http://thestir.cafemom.com/baby/115985/is_breastmilk_vegan_enough_for

Has anyone here ever met someone who thought breastmilk isn't vegan? I certainly haven't (and I've been vegan for 11 years so have talked to a lot of vegans), and I found myself getting really pissed off reading this. The article points out that there is no scientific reason a vegan diet isn't healthy for pregnant women or toddlers, and the commenters are almost entirely supportive of veganism, so it's not all bad.

[DevaMajka]

That line of thought makes my head want to explode. This line from the article pretty much sums it up:

 Overall, I find the entire debate to be mind-numbingly weird, and I also feel that if you refuse to breastfeed your baby because you don't think it's vegan, you have some serious priority issues you need to work through.

eta- has this (breastmilk not being vegan) ever been an argument from anybody other than these 2 parents?

[catnip]

I've heard it from defensive omnivores playing "catch the vegan," but never from any real vegan anywhere besides the ones cited in the article.

[katroshka]

No, I've never heard it from anyone else. And all the going vegan type books I've seen, and the vegan kids/ family books say that breastfeeding is best, then go on to say that there are soy formulas for those who can't breastfeed.

[Annie Mac]

Well, technically, breastmilk *isn't* vegan. But to feed your newborn apple juice and soya milk demonstrates, at best, an appalling lack of critical thinking skills and at worst, a terrifying degree of dogma.

[elus0814]

Anyone not breastfeeding because it's 'not vegan' needs to reexamine their priorities. Does swallowing your own spit make you no longer a vegan? Maybe this sounds strange but how did the woman in the article become pregnant? She would have had to use an 'animal product' (sperm). 

[katroshka]

I can't say I understand why breastmilk wouldn't be vegan. Like elus0814 said, that would make veganism completely impossible in a theoretical sense, not even just in the sense that it is pretty much impossible to totally avoid all non-human animal products. Licking your fingers while eating would become not vegan, as you are surely digesting some of your skin cells. Breathing wouldn't be vegan, because you are constantly breathing in moisture from your mouth, sinuses, and trachea. Is a cow not an herbivore because calves nurse? I'm sorry, I cannot accept this logic at all. It's a complete perversion of vegan values.

[Tidbitz]

The couple in the article sound ridiculous.  I would hope more vegans have significantly more intelligence.  Whether they killed their baby on purpose or not, they just sound plain dumb.  

Most vegans are not this way at all, not in my experience.  

[hasya]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bebe's Mom]

That is the most ridonkulous thing I have ever heard. And I hate the word ridonkulous, but it seems fitting in this case.

[Sayward]

Originally Posted by Annie Mac 

Well, technically, breastmilk *isn't* vegan. But to feed your newborn apple juice and soya milk demonstrates, at best, an appalling lack of critical thinking skills and at worst, a terrifying degree of dogma.

Breast milk is vegan, without question. Veganism has a very specific definition and breastfeeding is absolutely in line with it.

A baby drinking breast milk is as vegan an act as a mother *making a baby*. Both involve "using an animal" - both 100% vegan!  

[pers]

Originally Posted by Annie Mac 

Well, technically, breastmilk *isn't* vegan. But to feed your newborn apple juice and soya milk demonstrates, at best, an appalling lack of critical thinking skills and at worst, a terrifying degree of dogma.

Unless you are using manipulation or coercion to get a woman to give you her breatkmilk, or tying her up and taking it by force or while she is passed out or something or otherwise not capable of consent, technically breastmilk is entirely vegan. 

This article is stupid.  Where are all these vegans who don't approve of breastmilk?  I have heard the idea a few times from people who know little of veganism, but In all my years of participating in veg*n communities and such, I have never actually heard of a vegan who held that belief beside the couple in the article.  And I have my doubts about the sincerity of that either - I think they were trying to partly cover up out and out neglect by eat least making it seem as if they were at least trying to do the right thing and made a tragic mistake so claimed they were trying to do the right vegan thing rather than that they just couldn't be bothered to feed their kid properly.

In reality vegans are big time supporters of breastfeeding since it is generally the only way of feeding an infant properly without animal products.  Soy formula may be the closest alternative to being vegan, but still generally contains at least some animal derived ingredients.  And slowly starving a child by trying to feed them just apple juice or other unsuitable drinks/foods is, in addition to being horribly in millions of other ways, completely not vegan.    

[Annie Mac]

I thought vegan just meant you don't eat things that come from an animal, for any number of reasons. I didn't think the state of the animal or their consent had anything to do with it -- I mean, obviously there are ethical reasons that people choose to be vegan, and the well being of the animals may figure in largely, but as far as what is and what isn't vegan...I didn't think there was much grey area. From an animal -- no. Not from an animal -- go for it. 

I was vegan for many years, and breastfed then and now, so I'm not arguing FOR the article. I just find it interesting that there are grey areas in what constitutes a vegan diet. Who knew?

[pers]

Originally Posted by Annie Mac 

I thought vegan just meant you don't eat things that come from an animal, for any number of reasons. I didn't think the state of the animal or their consent had anything to do with it -- I mean, obviously there are ethical reasons that people choose to be vegan, and the well being of the animals may figure in largely, but as far as what is and what isn't vegan...I didn't think there was much grey area. From an animal -- no. Not from an animal -- go for it. 

I was vegan for many years, and breastfed then and now, so I'm not arguing FOR the article. I just find it interesting that there are grey areas in what constitutes a vegan diet. Who knew?

The word "vegan" was coined by the Vegan Society (founed in 1944) which defines it as "Veganism is a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose.".  

A woman choosing to feed her own child her milk or willingly and generously donating to milk banks for the use of others is not being exploited.  A cow who has been bred and had her calf taken away so humans can use her milk is, and even if she kept her calf and people trained her to let them take a bit, she is not capable of understanding the risk/benefit and so could not possibly give informed consent.  

There certainly are grey areas though, especially those involving relationships that often benefit animals, such as having pets or well cared for and loved working animals such as guide dogs or riding horses and such.  Or remembering that people are animals, some vegans consider human welfare issues to be important but separate from veganism, while others consider them to be wrapped under the same blanket since people are animals too, so a product made in a sweat shop or by child labor would not be vegan even if it did not contain any material from animals.  

And of course individual ethics differ, so some people who currently live a vegan lifestyle might actually be okay ethically with taking a little bit of milk from a well cared for cow if it really was a bit extra beyond what her calf needed and they couldn't see it as doing any harm.  Many others would not.  

[Annie Mac]

Thanks Pers. That makes a lot of sense & is a much broader definition. A lifestyle, more than just a dietary choice. 

[Silverbird]

The vegan society has a pciture of a breastfeed baby as one of their logos at the top of lirature. (One of the reasons I think thier great).  It's defitily vegan.