People who take Gd way too far - Page 3

[Breathless Wonder]

Hey sofiamomma!
I heard you!
In fact, we said much of the same thing!

I think most of us on MDC find it hard to go into particular forums. I have a hard time coming here very often. I know others have a hard time going into the Vax board, or the Circ board.

My advice to you is to try to avoid the vent threads for now, until you grow in confidence.

Post with questions, and be upfront about the fact that you are still learning, you are really trying, you know something isn't quite right, can someone please give you suggestions how to fix it?

*My* frustration is with parents who know something that works, but instead of being helpful, or understanding, or whatever, they just go ragging on the "bad" parent with other parents who know what they are doing.

I totally hear you on this one! But I don't have a solution for it. I wish I did!

[pamelamama]

Originally posted by Sofiamomma
Pretend that the mama you saw is a student of gentle discipline and she is coming here to get some ideas.

[pamelamama]

Originally posted by Sofiamomma
I'm just wondering if you have to be so awful to the other parents while you're at it?

Do you think sometimes people on the boards are a little tougher than they would be IRL?

[Sofiamomma]

Maybe the difference between being on the internet vs. what you do and say IRL is part of it. That doesn't usually occur to me. Honestly, I try very hard to think of the folks on here as real people with feelings. I get mental images of them in my head and pretend we are actually talking. It is how I deal with the oddness of it all.

Perhaps you are right about staying away from vent threads. Sometimes I just can't help myself. It's like trying not to look at a wreck! I should try harder, though, esp when feeling very sad and sensitive. I really do feel more can be accomplished if we would all be a little nicer to each other, but that's just me. I feel the same way about racism and other things that offend people.

I'm sorry about what happened to you, Breathless. That is the sort of thing that really pains me. Some people are very pained by seeing children mistreated (not that that doesn't pain me, but I also feel for the parent in those situations, and some people have nothing but disgust and disdain for the adult). I am very sad for myself and for other mamas when they are obviously struggling and no one is helping or worse berating them. I am so grateful to the ladies and sometimes gentlemen who offer to help me in grocery stores, etc. if I have my hands full. Talking to and distracting a crying baby, finding something to engage my older one, or just helping to carry something. I can *tell* if someone is being judgemental of my abilities or lack thereof or if they are genuinely sympathizing with the difficulty I am experiencing and trying to help.

I have tried to post with questions. Sometimes I get awesome and very helpful suggestions. Other times it's as though nobody read it, or they did and are "speechless." I don't know, maybe I am too wordy, or worry about stuff I shouldn't. Anyway, thanks!

[FreeRangeMama]

I get alternately told I am too lenient or too hard on my dd depending on who I talk to. I am sick of constantly feeling bad about myself and being near tears with all the criticism.

Sofiamomma

You'll never please everyone. If anyone thinks they have it all figured out they're wrong. Finding the balance that works for YOUR family is an ongoing process. Maybe it would be easier if we all were just as little less judgemental of those "other" moms and instead showed a little more compassion....

[FreeRangeMama]

How many times have *I* been the one to leave a situation because someone else's child isn't being supervises appropriately. Why should *my* child be forced to leave a public place because someone else can't figure out that talking sweetly and gently while the kid is still aggressing against another child is, ahem, ineffective and disrespectful of every one else in that environment

As an adult *I* have left places that were too loud and rowdy, or where 1 or 2 people were behaving in a way that I found unpleasant. It might not be "fair" or "right" but it is life. In situations with other children I do the same. If a child is repeatedly agressive against my child and it is becoming unpleasant, we leave.

We seem to expect children to 'behave' in such a way or parents 'make' them be respectful so we can all enjoy the space together. To me that just seems unrealistic. Adult situations rarely end up that way.

I am not really sure what my point is, but it just seems parents have all sorts of unrealistic expectations of how children *should* and *should not* behave at playgroups. It just seems like there is one set of expectations for adults and another for children....

[FreeRangeMama]

So when my daughter has been waiting for AGES for a turn on the swing at the park, and the other kid's mom has said to her swinging child, "Okay, honey, time to give this little girl a turn, okay?" about six times to no avail, and now the mom is looking at me with a helpless kind of look on her face, it drives me CRAZY!!!

Why should the child just give up the swing? She was there first and she was having fun. I don't get it?

If you were in the middle of dinner at a restaurant and you notice a lineup would you tell your dinner companion you've been there long enough and others were waiting, so 1 more minute and we're leaving? Its their turn after all. There are such different expectations for adults and chilren, it hardly seems fair. If we don't force our child off the swing, or make him rush through a book we are criticized for it. We are probably called "bad parents" or "lazy" too

[Leonor]

We seem to expect children to 'behave' in such a way or parents 'make' them be respectful so we can all enjoy the space together. To me that just seems unrealistic. Adult situations rarely end up that way.

By the way T you are an awesome family, I'm just browsing your website, always glad to meet a fellow UC'er I tried EC too, but I did it all wrong, snif.

[EllieB]

If you were in the middle of dinner at a restaurant and you notice a lineup would you tell your dinner companion you've been there long enough and others were waiting, so 1 more minute and we're leaving?

I wouldn't get up in the middle of dinner, but I probably would be a bit quicker about things than I may normally be otherwise, depending on the situation and why I was there. If my child is using something another child is waiting for, I let her use it for a while, point out that another kid is waiting and ask if she wants to do something else. Like "hey this boy would like to swing for awhile, why don't we go play on the slide?" I would hope other people would have that same respect for my child if she was waiting for a turn.

I do the same for other adults. If someone is waiting for my parking space, I do get out of it as quickly as I can. If I am looking at an exhibit at a musuem and there's a line behind me, I look and move on, I don't keep standing there as long as I may if no one was there. This is just part of getting along in society and I think its important for my kids to take others feelings into consideration.

[DebraBaker]

I see too many selfish piggy adults in this culture and I see where they come from. If I knew a lot of people were waiting in a resteraunt I wouldn't linger over coffee. If someone is waiting for a parking spot I would free it up instead of sitting in my car (like the lady at the grocery store yesterday) I wouldn't block an aisle in the grocery for about 10 minutes like the two fat piggy old women in the store yesterday.

I wouldn't empty a cart full of food in the express line. I wouldn't write a check in said express line.

I see where these adults come from, from the family of the little girl who won't share the swing and has a mother who just shakes her head.

I don't get people who think the girl has a right to be selfish, perhaps the other little girl waiting for the swing has the right to knock the other off the swing to have her turn. Children have parents to teach and show good example.

If I asked my child to share in a similar situation (and we have had similar situations) they would naturally share, if they didn't I would take them home.

GD isn't let the child do whatever she wants. If children needed that then they might as well hatch from eggs and sort things out for themselves.

Debra Baker

[DebraBaker]

I'm starting to wonder if this is a difference between GD (a general term) and TCS which is more specific and, imho, a bit extreme.

I definately believe in GD but I have trouble with some aspects of TCS.

Debra Baker

[Leonor]

Shhh, Debra, that's forbidden topic here.

[Lucky Charm]

Well said Debra.

Why should the child just give up the swing? She was there first and she was having fun. I don't get it?

I also feel that this is a good point as well. I am just not sure why : :LOL But the more i think about it, i feel it can go both ways. i suppose if the child is there first, maybe he or she should be able to stay there a long while. But in my case, i would let my child have fun, then give another child a turn, because thats the decent, kind compassionate thing to do. Its not always all about "us" or "her". and like debra says, it seem a little piggy to me if a child continues to swing endlessly, although having a great time, while other children who come to the playground for the same fun have to wait and possibly not have a turn. As so many people have pointed out here and on other threads, where is the respect if you dont give a child a turn?

But then again, this is the "me" generation, the here and now. To another mom, why should her child need to get off the swing and stop monopolizing it? why should her child get off the little rocker horse? Then again, maybe she doesnt let someone merge in traffic, hold a door open for someone.

I see it all the time where i work, in Target, you name it. And even here.

[Leonor]

Ok, what is with that park in the first place that only has 1 (one) swing?

[georgia]

We are fortunate---we live in a neighborhood that has a ton of parks within a short walking distance of each other. But they each have ONE baby swing and ONE regular swing! I'm willing to bet the person who designed these was someone who has never actually spent time at a playground waiting for a turn on the swing!

:

[rainsmom]

Sofiasmomma........I think it would be unrealistic to expect a thread called PEOPLE WHO TAKE GD WAY TOO FAR......to be anything but a vent. This is a place for people to discuss things that work, things that dont and why it is so frustrating IRL.

When I see a mama, struggling with a parenting style that clearly isnt working......my first impulse is to help, to suggest, to model. But in my experience, those suggestions are usually met by resistance or worse, anger. I think other moms here have faced that too. Its human nature. WHen I was a single mom in my 20s, I moved 500 miles away from well meaning relatives who kept telling me I was doing everything wrong. I wanted to learn for myself what worked. Sometimes it is only with confidence that we seek out advise from those we know seem to have a handle on this thing called parenting. If it looks easy for some......well, youre catching them on a good day, believe me.

I think this thread has been very informative. We've come from bitching about mothers who do things that are obvious to everyone in the room arent working........to sympathizing with a mother who was blasted bc she was trying to do what was best for one at the moment..... Sometimes some of us come to bitch and complain, bc we dont have anyone to bitch and complain to. Some of my closest mom friends.... I would never offer my advise to........but here, I can offer opinions, share my experience, vent, laugh and expose myself in ways I never can IRL.


My point............oh.....where was I? ..........well, its this place isnt meant to strike out at other moms......we are actually looking for support, even when we are venting about frustrating things that we feel powerless to change.

[FreeRangeMama]

I let her use it for a while, point out that another kid is waiting and ask if she wants to do something else. Like "hey this boy would like to swing for awhile, why don't we go play on the slide?" I would hope other people would have that same respect for my child if she was waiting for a turn.

This is a great way to respond, but if your child says no? Its one thing to encourage kindness, its another thing to force it. I also wouldn't wait in line and expect the other child to get off for my child, I would play with him on another peice of equipment until the swings cleared up.

If my daughter was the one on the swing, I would simply say to her, "This boy is waiting for a turn, and you've had the swing for a while. Swing for a count of ten and then it's his turn." Period. And not to sound too sure of myself, but she would do it. Because I've never been wishy-washy with her. I don't order her around like a drill seargeant (sp?), I'm pretty fair and respectful of her, but I'm the parent.

This is the part I was referring to, forcing a child off a swing in the name of "respect" just doesn't make sense to me. If I treat MY child with respect he is learning to respect others.

JMO

[FreeRangeMama]

I see too many selfish piggy adults in this culture and I see where they come from.

I see where these adults come from, from the family of the little girl who won't share the swing and has a mother who just shakes her head.

Maybe the selfish adults come from families where they are forced to share.
Maybe the little girl doesn't get to go to the park very often.
Maybe she is scared of the slide and only really likes the swing.
Maybe there are family problems and the mom is just trying to re-connect with her dd at the park.
Or maybe they are horrible, selfish people who like to monopolized the swing
Instead of passing judgement on these people and dooming them to a life of selfish piggy-ism why not just find something else to play on. I try to model good behaviour to my ds'. I cannot control situations, only how I react to them That would include not judging the other mother or child.

If I asked my child to share in a similar situation (and we have had similar situations) they would naturally share, if they didn't I would take them home.

I would never force my child to share or go home. That feels like punishment to me. I don't make him share, period. You know what, he shares anyway. He learned from watching us, we share everything we own (well, just about). At storytime, if he notices another child wants the book he is reading he will bring it to them when he is done with it. Not because I tell him he will share it or we go home, but because he has had the opportunity to learn about it on his own. He sees the value in sharing because it makes the other child happy, not because Mama expects him to. He is not growing up to be a "selfish piggy", he is growing up to be a thoughtful, caring, compassionate boy Kids deserve more credit then they are given.


JMO

[FreeRangeMama]

By the way you are an awesome family, I'm just browsing your website, always glad to meet a fellow UC'er I tried EC too, but I did it all wrong, snif.

Thanks

My EC'ed boy has still not "graduated" so I think I did it wrong too :LOL

I like meeting UC'ers too!

Laurie

[brandywine]

We were once part of a palygroup co-op with lots of GD moms, and one kid in particular really acted aggressively toward other kids. His mom would sit on the sideline and count at him while he pulverized some younger kid. He only got my kid once because after that I sayed within arms reach of my little ones. I mentioned the problem to the co-op chairperson and she said that yes, it was a problem, but that the offending mom had been gently reminded that this was a place for all children to feel safe blah blah blah. When I complained a second time, she basically told me that the mom was a founder and big financial contributor to the group and that I would just have to get used to it. The thing is, even if I rescue my kids, they still have to watch this kid beat up on everybody else! I don't let them watch violent TV, why would I make them witness this? We left the group after two months, when we had paid for a year long membership. Sometimes I wonder if I should have maybe said something to the mom directly, instead of just dealing with her kid.