Should I have made him? Update post 8

[Dandelionkid]

I'm sick and my mom showed up today to take the kids to her house so I could rest. I am not incapacitated but it was nice of her to offer. My 4.5 year declared he was NOT going and proceeded to cry and get very upset about the spur-of-the-moment plan. My mom thinks he shouldn't get to decide. I tried to make it very matter of fact that he was going and we made it down to the front entrance when I decided to give him what he wanted and keep him home. He was so upset I knew I would be wrestling him into the car seat and I couldn't see that being ok. 

I don't know why he didn't want grandmas house. He often gets anxious about leaving me. We have dropped him off with other relatives for baby-sitting when I work and has settled fine after initial upset. We have him in gymnastics and he confidently runs out to join his class now after a semester of needing me to be right beside him. I just know that I am "weak" and his dad probably would have been able to get him in the car without a power struggle. His two sister are the opposite so I don't think the anxiety is something we are creating.

Thoughts?

TIA

[chiefmir]

I can totally understand that being a tough call.  While I wouldn't want to wrestle my DD1 (she's 5) into the car for any reason, I also think that a kid your DS' age could probably be expected to understand the situation (hopefully).  I think its reasonable to take their feelings into consideration (maybe grandma could have hung out at home with the kids while you napped for an hour before making the transition to the car?) but also reasonable to role-model being able to take care of yourself in a healthy way.  Especially since your son has been able to consistenly enjoy his time away from you with other caregivers, maybe I'd have been more likely to try to discuss the issue: "mommy is sick and I need to rest.  Grandma is going to play here for a few minutes with us and then take you guys to her place for lunch/movie/art activity.  I'll come to get you before dinner time/after nap/before snack".  If he was still upset, he may be old enough to understand, "when people are sick, they need to rest.  If I don't rest, I won't feel better as quickly, and I won't be able to go to work/take you to gym class tomorrow/go to the playground after dinner."

[philomom]

If I was sick and unable to rest and care for the children properly... I would have made him go. Chances are he would have been quite happy ten minutes down the road and you needed your rest.

[Greenlea]

Maybe he is starting to feel sick too and wanted you?  Maybe he felt you getting sick and didn't want to leave you?

My DS cries when he sees his sitter's house.  I feel soooo bad leaving him crying in the door way when I drop him off, but the sitter says not less than 5 minutes later he's fine upstairs playing with toys.

[pianojazzgirl]

This is probably not the most popular idea on MDC, but I think I would probably offer him some sort of little treat/snack to eat in the car on the way to Grandma's house (or even give it to him to start eating while he's getting dressed up to go outside).  With my kids that would have worked to get them in the car quietly, anyway.  I don't do much in the way of bribes or rewards, but I think me being sick (which means a) I really need him to go so that I have that time to rest, and b) I simply don't have the energy to wrestle him in the carseat/use playful parenting/spend hours reasoning with him/etc) would be a case where I would go ahead and offer some sort of little incentive.

[GoBecGo]

In your place i would have made him go.  BUT it's easy for me to say that because my DD1 is thrilled to spend time with people who aren't me! :lol!

You were sick.  And i have a 4.5 yo, i know i could make her understand that i am sick, i need to rest in quiet, she is going to grandmas.  Ultimately sometimes she hates to do stuff and i always remind her, i'm not asking her to LIKE it, i just need her to DO it.  It helps her to have her distress/unwillingness acknowledged even if that cannot change the facts of what is happening.

[woodchick]

I think letting him stay home was a fine choice.  If your mom hadn't offered spur of the moment you would have had him home anyway, right?  And, presumably, your mom took other DC leaving you with only one?

If he gets anxious about leaving you and he didn't have time to prepare for this transition I'm not surprised he didn't take it well.  I understand your disappointment if you wanted to sleep alone, but I think you did well to take his feelings into consideration.

I try not to force my kids to do things against their will just to convenience me. 

[Dandelionkid]

Update: I didn't let him watch cartoons so he became very bored without his siblings and was very happy to let dad come home and take him to Grandmas an hour later. He was so excited to leave and get dropped off it is ridiculous :) That is the problem with his anxiety- I know he would have a great time doing xyz but he gets too worked up about it to consider the benefits until he sees what he missed out on. I hope I can find a way to help him get passed this as he gets older. One thing I realized today is that it has to be on his terms or nothing! Just like potty-training- he refused until 6 months ago and then he was done. I think for future I need to avoid the last-minute, high-pressure sales tactics because it brings out the "no" in him. Maybe it is only partly anxiety and partly feeling like he has no choice.

I really appreciate all the responses! Thanks for the support.

[LynnS6]

My experience with my anxiety-prone ds is that if he isn't given a choice, he'll be fine. If he thinks he has a choice, the answer is "no". (It's also a temperament trait -- his initial response is always "no", so he takes a while to warm up.)

Case in point. Ds is 9. He's old enough to spend 20-30 minutes home alone. He's a responsible kid. He has, until this week, steadfastly refused to even try. However, on Thursday we had a convergence of events that made it necessary: He had been home with the flu for 4 days. He was on the mend, but he'd been out of school that day. Dh had a meeting he absolutely had to go to. Dd really wanted to go to family math night at school. I couldn't bring ds because he'd been sick. It wasn't fair to his little sister to make her stay home. So, dh and I worked out a plan: Dd and I would leave for family math night at 6:15. Dh would leave his meeting a bit early -- between 6:15 and 6:30. Thus, at most, ds would be home alone for 20 minutes (both events were about 5 min away). We then presented this to ds. He and I practiced (again) how to make phone calls. He wasn't thrilled, but he was OK with it. When the actual time came? He was downstairs playing Wii and barely noticed I was gone!

Now, he's older and more flexible. But I will say that sometimes having to make a choice is more anxiety inducing to him than actually having to do something he's not sure about. Just food for thought.

[MusicianDad]

You know if he is anxiety prone, the fact that you weren't feeling well probably made him even more anxious to leave you. At 4.5, mom not feeling well and then suddenly being asked to go to grandma's can be a scary proposition. I think you made the right call.

[elisheva]

Originally Posted by pianojazzgirl 

This is probably not the most popular idea on MDC, but I think I would probably offer him some sort of little treat/snack to eat in the car on the way to Grandma's house (or even give it to him to start eating while he's getting dressed up to go outside). 

At our house, we refer to this as "incentive" :) As adults, we do it all the time - 'I'll go for an extra long walk then have that dessert', 'I'll sit down and correct papers after I get my cup of coffee'. If phrased properly (i.e., I don't say "I will give you a treat if you get in the car nicely" but I DO say "I have snacks for children when they are in their seats and ready to be buckled"), it just greases the wheels. We all need that. 

[D_McG]

I would have made him go. My son can be anxious too but allowing him to stay home, etc just makes things way worse. He really needs to be pushed, rewarded, pushed, rewarded. And of course there are inherent rewards in things like this (fun with grandma).

I don't know what to say about this 'making kids do things against their will for my convenience' thing. Being sick and needing rest is hardly a matter of convenience.

And really especially by 4.5.. kids don't need to be happy about everything all the time! Sometimes we just have to do things because they need to get done. It's OK to whine about it but then you have to get over it and move on. That's what I tell my kids AND myself.

[A&A]

If you weren't seriously sick, I wouldn't have made him go.  They grow up so fast. 

[woodchick]

Originally Posted by D_McG 

I don't know what to say about this 'making kids do things against their will for my convenience' thing. Being sick and needing rest is hardly a matter of convenience.

 

Well, I was just going by what the OP gave us to work with. She said that she wasn't incapacitated, but it would be nice to rest. She got 3 kids ready to go last minute and even got her DS to the door while he was protesting.  She then spent an hour not letting him watch cartoons.  If she was truly so ill that she couldn't care for him she could have made him go. Or she could have let him watch TV while she rested.  She had other choices. To me that sounds like convenience.

I don't disagree that sometimes it is beneficial to get kids to do things that they don't want to.  To me, this particular example didn't seem to warrant the kicking and screaming fest that the OP thinks would have happened if she was to force DS into the car.

[Dandelionkid]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

My experience with my anxiety-prone ds is that if he isn't given a choice, he'll be fine. If he thinks he has a choice, the answer is "no". (It's also a temperament trait -- his initial response is always "no", so he takes a while to warm up.)

Case in point. Ds is 9. He's old enough to spend 20-30 minutes home alone. He's a responsible kid. He has, until this week, steadfastly refused to even try. However, on Thursday we had a convergence of events that made it necessary: He had been home with the flu for 4 days. He was on the mend, but he'd been out of school that day. Dh had a meeting he absolutely had to go to. Dd really wanted to go to family math night at school. I couldn't bring ds because he'd been sick. It wasn't fair to his little sister to make her stay home. So, dh and I worked out a plan: Dd and I would leave for family math night at 6:15. Dh would leave his meeting a bit early -- between 6:15 and 6:30. Thus, at most, ds would be home alone for 20 minutes (both events were about 5 min away). We then presented this to ds. He and I practiced (again) how to make phone calls. He wasn't thrilled, but he was OK with it. When the actual time came? He was downstairs playing Wii and barely noticed I was gone!

Now, he's older and more flexible. But I will say that sometimes having to make a choice is more anxiety inducing to him than actually having to do something he's not sure about. Just food for thought.

I totally agree- that's why I presented it matter-of-factly as " you are going,,," but he probably knew that it wasn't one of those "need to do" things because I was at home and why not stay with me? So far, work is the only circumstance that he knows is not a negotiation and he manages it ok. If I was completely incapacitated it probably would have gone differently. 

[Dandelionkid]

Yes, looking back a fight really  wasn't warranted. He would have physically fought the car-seat and he's old enough that he could entertain himself while I stayed in bed (and I wasn't puking at that time). It worked out fine in the end but my mom's comment confused me in the moment "he shouldn't have a choice" I felt a little weak and uncertain but I definitely would have lost trust with him if I had dragged him to the car and physically restrained him. 

I doubt myself sometimes with my son because he reminds me of the sensitive nature I had growing up. I don't want to enable his anxiety, it's a fine line sometimes. Thanks for your reassurance.
 

Originally Posted by woodchick 

Originally Posted by D_McG 

I don't know what to say about this 'making kids do things against their will for my convenience' thing. Being sick and needing rest is hardly a matter of convenience.

 

Well, I was just going by what the OP gave us to work with. She said that she wasn't incapacitated, but it would be nice to rest. She got 3 kids ready to go last minute and even got her DS to the door while he was protesting.  She then spent an hour not letting him watch cartoons.  If she was truly so ill that she couldn't care for him she could have made him go. Or she could have let him watch TV while she rested.  She had other choices. To me that sounds like convenience.

I don't disagree that sometimes it is beneficial to get kids to do things that they don't want to.  To me, this particular example didn't seem to warrant the kicking and screaming fest that the OP thinks would have happened if she was to force DS into the car.

[Dandelionkid]

Originally Posted by A&A 

If you weren't seriously sick, I wouldn't have made him go.  They grow up so fast. 

 I really need to remember this every day.

[heartmama]

I definitely would not have made my son go, at that age or any age, if he was that upset, unless I was so incapacitated that staying home could jeapardize his safety. ESPECIALLY because my son's separation anxiety was just that, anxiety, and I know from experience that it will only make it worse the next time if he associates separation with a memory of screaming and crying, there is no way I would have forced it to the point of dragging him kicking and screaming into the carseat.

Like your son, my son would probably have just needed more warning and control over the separation. Physical force sent my son into a total panic attack. He HAD to know that was not a tool we would ever use with separation. If you have a kid like that you just find other methods. Routine and lots of preparation for transitions are key for older kids with with separation anxiety.

[hakeber]

I would have probably gone straight to bed with a bottle of Nyquil the minute my mom arrived and let her figure out how to cajole him into going. 

[homeschoolingmama]

I never make my children go somewhere without me if they don't want to.  My 6yo daughter is not comfortable without me when we go somewhere.  I feel with our relationship that it builds trust.  There hasn't been any situations where I HAD to leave her.  She has ventured out some which is nice. :)  My 8yo and 5yo don't even look back no matter where I would drop them off.  It is my daughters personality and I respect that.

I think you did the right thing mama.