Help a veg girl cross over ;)

[craft_media_hero]

I've been veg*n for about 5-6 years now, and I feel like my body is rejecting my current diet (like all the grains and cheese are just not working for me!), though I do still believe that it's possible to be healthy on a vegetarian diet, just not for me at this point in my life. I'm normally pretty in tune with my body's needs, so I trust my instincts on this one.

Anyway. I bought a whole chicken today and some buffalo meat; I couldn't afford organic, but I did get local and "natural", and I'm ready  I want to do this, but honestly, I've totally forgotten how to cook meat, and have a pretty strong aversion to milk (though I do eat yogurt and cheese), I want to go all the way (okay, maybe not organ meats, I can't imagine that right now!) and would like my family to get the benefits of raw milk.

Walk me through my first TF chicken---I want to make bone broth; how do I do that and do I have to cook the meat slowly for it to be TF? I was planning on boiling the whole chicken and then using the meat for meals through the week or maybe freezing some.

Can you give me explicitly what your TF week looks like in meals? Like the details, what do you do with the fat you skim off from the broth? Do you eat meat at every meal--I don't think I can commit to that yet. What are your grains? I am grained out and never want to see pasta again, lol! I do buy brown grains, not white; I have a pretty good handle on the importance of organic and whole foods, etc.

I have in the house:

2 whole chickens, one frozen, one thawed

frozen ground buffalo, 2 lbs, separate packages

potatoes

onions, yellow

lots of green leafies like kale, collards, lettuce

garlic, tons

carrots

leeks

green onions

lots of dried organic herbs from csa last summer

spaghetti squash

frozen organic coleslaw from csa veges

lotsa homemade low sugar peach and plum jam from csa fruit

brown rice

frozen organic fruit (lotsa peaches)

organic oranges and bananas

"real" oats

organic avocadoes

local corn and wheat tortillas

ummm I think some frozen green chile from csa peppers

organic wheat and rye flour

lotsa dried red chiles

a ton of various dried beans

canned chickpeas

canned olives

canned coconut milk

kefir, cow milk (this is a stretch for me but I know it's good!)

coconut milk, the So Delicious kind

Greek yogurt

feta and cheddar

organic chicken eggs

acv and white vinegar tho not the orgsnic raw kind

various spices and assorted baking stuff

tons of different nuts, cashews, walnuts, almonds, sunf. seeds, pumpkin, mostly all raw

organic and "natural" butter, tho not raw nor local

kim chee

miso (and tofu and tempeh which I guess is "out"? tho they are traditional asian and fermented foods, so give me your feedback on that)

Hit me! I'm a blank canvas and open to any suggestions.

[bodhitree]

Subbing...I've been vegetarian for 15 years, and now that we've cut out a bunch of stuff to get DD's food intolerances figured out, I find myself craving meat. I feel totally weird about it but there it is. So I'm very curious what advice people have for you!

[sapphire_chan]

For me, ground beef has actually been a LOT easier to take than other meats. It's just like the vegetarian version texture-wise so it's much more pleasant to eat than other options. It works really really well in salads. The trick is to add a bit of salt and pepper (at least, you can also add other things) to it right when you put it in the pan. I like to have a container in my fridge with cooked ground beef.

Chicken feels, and tastes, like cardboard. If it's got marinade and seasoning and such, then there are other flavors, followed by cardboard.

Summer sausage is the yummiest thing ever.

Turkey sausage and chicken breakfast sausage (the two regular sausages I've tried) are rubbery bits of horrible. The flavors were okay, but the texture was revolting. I don't need to chew my food for 5 minutes a bite, y'know?

There's a thread about storing tallow and other animal fats. Basically, you'll be freezing it, cutting it into single servings, and then storing it in the freezer in a bag, but the link in the tallow thread has more info.

Tofu generally isn't fermented. You can get fermented variations, but those are specially prepared by fermenting fresh tofu.

[sapphire_chan]

Oh, wait, I see, that's what you have in the house. Sorry, I thought that's what you were thinking of buying.

The ground buffalo will be an easier meat to start with. I'd thaw and cook it all, and put that in a container in your fridge to use in cooking. Buffalo is often fairly lean so you won't get much extra fat, but you should get enough to make a fat cube or two for later use.

Then you could make up whatever vegetable dish you would eat before, but add in the ground beef too. Like a stir fry, or a greens' soup.

[sapphire_chan]

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/omelet-muffins/ is another good ground/chopped up meat recipe that uses eggs and veggies as well. Very fast, very convenient.

[sapphire_chan]

Finally, if you've cooked meat before, you're well ahead of where I was when I started eating meat. Especially if you can remember what sort of meat you liked before and how it was prepared and such. I came into this meat eating thing with the knowledge that you have to cook meat (unless you get special kinds) and a vague memory that salami was awesome.

[Smokering]

Well, we're not the bestest TFers you ever did see, but here's what we've been eating (or will be eating) according to our last meal plan:

Sunday: "Mediterranean" platter with veggies, hard-boiled eggs, cheese, salami/cold chicken, homemade sourdough bread, olives, dukkah, pesto etc (not usually all at once!) Better TFers would add fermented veggies.

Monday lunch: Sausages, homemade sauerkraut, potato salad.

Monday dinner: Homemade baked beans, made with kidney beans cooked in chicken stock; cornbread.

Tuesday lunch: Fish (usually gurnard) cooked in cream with herbs and/or sweet chilli sauce.

Tuesday dinner: Steak with veggies.

We don't eat meat for every meal (in fact, I'm trying to introduce a few more meatless meals for budget reasons). We sometimes have a mostly veggie-based meal with a bit of meat, like chicken Caesar salad or an Oriental beef salad with just a few strips of marinated fastfry beef. For soups, I use chicken stock but don't add any actual chicken meat - I find it goes kind of sodden and chewy after a few reheats.

Making chicken stock is EASY, and you don't have to boil the whole chicken - honestly, unless you're using the meat for a casserole, I'd recommend roasting it for the best flavour and texture. Then take the roasted bones/carcass, put them in a crockpot with lots of cold water, and cook for about 18 hours with a splash of vinegar and any eggshells you have lying around. In the last hour or two of cooking, add any veggie scraps you'd usually put in veggie stock. Freeze in muffin tins for convenience, add to soups and sauces and DEFINITELY for cooking brown rice and beans - and it's awesome!

[simplyc]

Subbing.

We're in the same boat - Dh and I both have been Vegetarian/Vegan for over 6 years.  I've never even cooked meat!

From what I've read about soy tofu isn't the way to go.  Tempeh is a better option since it's been fermented but is still not as easy for your body to digest as other beans.

We haven't eaten meat but have added eggs and milk back into our diet, and I agree we don't really like the taste of milk which is making me hesitant to order raw milk through a co-op.  I do love it as yogurt or in smoothies.

[krankedyann]

Do you have a crock-pot?  Pop the chicken in the crock-pot (remove the giblets and neck if it's in there, cook it for 6-8 hours on low, then shred it and package up the meat in small packages.  Then add enough water to the crock-pot and set it on low for 24-48 hours to make stock.  What's even better is to put all of the drippings and carcass into the fridge overnight to let it chill, then put it in a clean crock-pot and allow it to soak with 2 Tbs vinegar for every 4 cups of water that you added to the crock-pot for at least an hour before you turn it on.  Turn on low and cook for 24-48 hours.  That will pull more nutrition out of the bones.

We eat meat every dinner, and at lunch if we're having dinner leftovers.

Miso and tempeh is fermented.

[ChicoYaYa]

Lots of good suggestions here, but I am going to approach it as if it were me... so, here's what I would do, given your pantry list:

Oven roast the 2 whole chickens with some salt and pepper as seasoning, probably put a quartered onion in the body cavity. Pull the meat off the bones and divide up for several menus (tacos, chicken soup, chicken and rice casserole come to mind), and throw the leftovers (including skin) into the crockpot with 2T apple cider vinegar and some chicken feet (if you can get them from Farmer's Market or co-op), I also add carrots, onions, parsley, sage (fresh from my garden, not dried or powdered), a few peeled garlic cloves, and simmer 24 hours or so. I personally do not add celery because I don't like the taste.

Save the leeks for making chicken noodle soup...

http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/recipe-index and http://nourishedkitchen.com/chicken-feet-stock/ (beware of the creepy chicken foot photo!) are great blogs to start with.

I would shred and bag up the chicken and make either chicken tacos or chicken burritos for dinner one night, you have all the fixin's for that, a little avocado, some shredded cheese... mmm! Chicken noodle soup would be good another night. Neither of these relies on a LOT of meat, so your meat goes a lot farther.

I would probably fry up the ground bison and make some kind of marinara sauce with tomatoes and herbs, serve with the spaghetti squash and some greens. Not sure how many in your family, but that might go two meals if you add veggies and salad on the side, and some bread, although that would not be my choice since I am a bread-free zone.

You also can use the sauce to make pizza by making pizza dough and shredding some cheese, the sauce already has the meat in it so don't bother with anything else except olives or whatever.

Same goes for leftover chicken... I love chicken pizza! I make a ranchy-style dressing instead of using red sauce, I like to put green olives, green onions, artichoke hearts... just a suggestion. I'm still working on trying to figure out a (good) gluten-free pizza crust, or you could make quickie pizzas for lunch by spreading everything on a flour tortillas and make it on the griddle like a quesadilla.

I would also make a bean and kale soup with the chicken broth, throw in lots and lots of your favorite veggie soup veggies, carrots, onions, garlic, potatoes, and maybe throw in a handful of cubed chicken breast, but if you put some cooked rice along with the beans already in there, you really don't need that much meat.

You also have the makings for hummus and guacamole, which to me is a meal in itself with a little pita or flour tortilla (both of which I cannot eat, but that shouldn't stop you!), also good with corn chips or even a leaf of romaine lettuce. Mmmm.... I'm getting hungry now!

A chicken and rice casserole with some veggies is always a hit in my house. Presoak the brown rice, then drain and cover with your broth, add some chicken and broccoli or carrots, cover and bake until the rice is done. Serve with greens or salad or another side veggie.

You could also do a veggie stir fry and throw in the cooked ground bison or cooked chicken at the last minute just to warm it up, good with rice or noodles.

Since you have lots of fruit and some yogurt and/or kefir, how about smoothies for lunch or breakfast? I personally do not drink raw milk straight (I don't drink ANY milk at all... ever), but always make it into yogurt or kefir, and then use that in my baking (I make GF muffins, scones, pancakes for breakfasts)

Since you have pumpkin, definitely make some pumpkin muffins, pumpkin pancakes, I just love pumpkin anything! (Especially with chocolate chips, but maybe that's just me!  )

No help from here with the tofu and tempeh since I am allergic to soy.

Anyway, hope that gives you some more ideas!

[JMJ]

I'm not a huge meat eater, and I don't drink milk straight.  Here's what I generally have in a day:

Breakfast: Dutch baby (recipe below) or eggs on toast

1/4-1/3 c quinoa

1/2ish c yogurt

(soak overnight)

Throw in blender with 4 eggs, blend until quinoa is well ground

Heat cast iron skillet w/ 1-2 T coconut oil (Make sure it is hot, or it will stick.  If it doesn't sizzle when I pour it in, I know I'm in for a clean up job.)

Pour in mixture, bake at 350 F for 20 minutes

Top with lemon juice, cinnamon, and raw honey or your own favorites.  I'm going to try to learn how to prevent my own fruit preserves and try them.

I think this makes more than most people eat for breakfast.  I breastfeed all night and then eat a late breakfast and then nothing for several hours, and I share this with my toddler.  I also don't actually measure anything, so I'm not exactly sure about the amounts.

Lunch: soup (one of the recipes in Nourishing Traditions)  They're pretty much vegetable soups with broth.  Sometimes, I add some chicken.  Sometimes, I just garnish with kefir.

Afternoon snack: green smoothie (fruit, greens, kefir, and more)

Dinner: meat, rice (soaked and then cooked in broth), vegetables (most of the plate is vegetables, usually green)

Snacks: crispy nut mix (crispy almonds, pumpkin seeds, walnuts from NT), canned oysters, pickled herring, cheese, dark chocolate, 1 brazil nut, popcorn, etc (not all of these every day)

[tanyalynn]

I think long-term, DD and I are going to end up moderate/low meat TFers (which is funny cause DH will probably be paleo-ish, so meat/veg/fruit, little/no grain, and right now we're all dairy-free). 

You don't mention any beans--do you not like them?  Because I was going to say that we eat an increasing amount of beans and lentils and I'm really enjoying them.  I'm soaking/fermenting them with this method...

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-way-to-soak-brown-rice.html

For breakfast, we usually have eggs (hard-boiled since the kids got burned out on scrambled) plus fruit, or refried black bean burritos (take any refried bean recipe, soak the beans like above, and then add extra fat when cooking--I buy pig and beef fat from a local farmer and render it, and use that as most of our cooking fat--so we don't necessarily eat a lot of meat, but we eat animal fat frequently). 

For lunches, lentil soup (or other soup) made with homemade stock as the liquid is very nice, it feels soothing and filling and satisfying, at least to me.  Some people would add meat, right now we're not, but again, high fat works for us, so I always add more fat than the original recipes call for.  I've actually been branching more into finding vegetarian recipes and then adapting them to us, so homemade stock and animal fat, but usually not more meat.

[craft_media_hero]

Wow, thanks for all the replies and great ideas!

Dd and I pretty much devoured that chicken before dh even got home from work, heh heh. We had chicken tostadas and they were good!

For me, the grains have really sounded bleh and gross, and I think maybe my body is telling me to lay off. I believe I will be trying to minimize grains--formerly they were a huuuge part of our diet, and I'm just kind of disgusted at the thought of eating any more bread right now! So maybe I should check out the paleo diet.

I'm digging the kefir; it's good. I am sure I can get raw milk here pretty easily (I live in an agricultural community). Maybe I can work up to it; I'm just not a milk drinker here.

I'm relieved to see other posters in the same boat-let's stay in touch! For me, the hard part is thinking what to cook because I'm not used to using animal products, especially since I'm re-thinking grains, too.

I also made a yummy yummy red bean chile with half the ground meat. Re: soy-I'm just going use up what I have and then only use occasional fermented soy like tempe (coz I LOVE bbq tempeh!)

Well, gtg, I got a fussy teething boy and a messy house! Hello Sleepy Wrap, here I come ;)

About soaking seeds, etc.-- do you just dump the soak water and then cook in broth?

[violetflapjack]

Its great to hear about a mama trusting her instincts on diet for her and her family!  Way to go mama!

[craft_media_hero]

Originally Posted by violetflapjack 

Its great to hear about a mama trusting her instincts on diet for her and her family!  Way to go mama!

 Thanks. Two pregnancies and uncoerced births have honed my ear for what my body needs (thanks, kids!). If you had told me a year ago that I'd be cooking up red meat and digging it; I'd have laughed you outta the house! I'm glad that I'm listening now and doing what I need to do instead of ignoring my "body messages" coz I think my health would be suffering.

I'm learning so much from mdc right now! 

[bodhitree]

Originally Posted by craft_media_hero 

I'm relieved to see other posters in the same boat-let's stay in touch! For me, the hard part is thinking what to cook because I'm not used to using animal products, especially since I'm re-thinking grains, too.

Maybe we could have a "questioning and former vegetarians" tribe, either here or in the general Nutrition and Good Eating forum. I feel like I could use some support as I process this journey. I haven't even eaten any meat at this point, but it feels like such a huge thing to be questioning, and most people don't understand at all.

[akmeg]

All I have to say JMJ is...YUM!  Your whole day sounds so perfect to me.  Just the right amount of grains, meat, soup, and veggies, with a bit of sweetness thrown in.  I might just copy that daily menu every day!
 

Originally Posted by JMJ 

I'm not a huge meat eater, and I don't drink milk straight.  Here's what I generally have in a day:

Breakfast: Dutch baby (recipe below) or eggs on toast

1/4-1/3 c quinoa

1/2ish c yogurt

(soak overnight)

Throw in blender with 4 eggs, blend until quinoa is well ground

Heat cast iron skillet w/ 1-2 T coconut oil (Make sure it is hot, or it will stick.  If it doesn't sizzle when I pour it in, I know I'm in for a clean up job.)

Pour in mixture, bake at 350 F for 20 minutes

Top with lemon juice, cinnamon, and raw honey or your own favorites.  I'm going to try to learn how to prevent my own fruit preserves and try them.

I think this makes more than most people eat for breakfast.  I breastfeed all night and then eat a late breakfast and then nothing for several hours, and I share this with my toddler.  I also don't actually measure anything, so I'm not exactly sure about the amounts.

Lunch: soup (one of the recipes in Nourishing Traditions)  They're pretty much vegetable soups with broth.  Sometimes, I add some chicken.  Sometimes, I just garnish with kefir.

Afternoon snack: green smoothie (fruit, greens, kefir, and more)

Dinner: meat, rice (soaked and then cooked in broth), vegetables (most of the plate is vegetables, usually green)

Snacks: crispy nut mix (crispy almonds, pumpkin seeds, walnuts from NT), canned oysters, pickled herring, cheese, dark chocolate, 1 brazil nut, popcorn, etc (not all of these every day)

[craft_media_hero]

Originally Posted by bodhitree 

Maybe we could have a "questioning and former vegetarians" tribe, either here or in the general Nutrition and Good Eating forum. I feel like I could use some support as I process this journey. I haven't even eaten any meat at this point, but it feels like such a huge thing to be questioning, and most people don't understand at all.

I totally agree. I would like a support thread also. I am just going to do that! I will come back and post a link.

Here you go! http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1298565/questioning-or-former-veg-n-support-chat#post_16267192 Now keep it going ;)

[kristandthekids]

.

Edited by kristandthekids - 1/16/13 at 8:16pm

[Magelet]

We definitely don't eat meat every day.  I'd say we'll eat a chicken and a lb of ground or stew meat in a week or a lb of meat and a night of fish, sometimes less. (Though that actually sometimes works out to meat close to every day, as a chicken lasts between 2-4 days plus stock, and the meat is usually two dinners)

One thing we've been LOVING is meaty bean soups.  We've tried several recipes from the book of jewish food in which various beans are cooked over a few hours with some onions, two or three chunks of beef bone, and some stew meat (lamb or beef though we did buffalo tonight instead), and some simple seasonings.  It turns out really rich and yummy and lasts several nights (we make the full batch for like 12 people and eat it for lunch and dinner for several days. it's so tasty we aren't sick of it when it's gone).  We've done harira and burghul di dfeen to huge sucess. The harira was AMAZING.  (we used turmeric instead of saffron to save money, no problems)  We often cut the meat down, and do a couple beef bones and like a 3/4 of a lb of stew meat for two over two nights.

For a while we were doing raw milk, raw egg yolk, yogurt or buttermilk, banana, cinnamon, cardomom and nutmeg smoothies which felt so good, but we fell out of it (the spices because my acupunturist suggusted I needed warming foods, and so warming spices was better than a warm smoothie, but I liked it better taste wise without the spices).  We often do soaked grain porridge for breakfast, and I've been loving congee (take leftover brown rice, cook it until it's porridgy in bone broth with seaweed and mustard seeds. great with tamari and toasted sesame seeds and sauted greens like cabbage or kale if your up for it in the AM)

Lunches we do leftovers mostly.  We don't do so well with nutritious lunches if we don't have leftovers and I don't eat at work (I get TF lunches at work!)

I agree about roasting the chicken then making stock out of the carcass. A normal chicken from the store is a chicken meant more for roasting than stewing, and will taste better that way.  I freeze the carcasses, then when I need it/have time, I stick a couple in a pot with water, a tbs or so of ACV, some veggie trimmings sometimes, and simmer for a day or two or three until I have time to strain and cool it (topping off with water as needed.)  I have found that sticking the beef bones straight into the stew and cooking for a couple hours is so much better for us than making a beef stock to make the stew with. I don't love the smell of the beef broth and takes up too much space in the freezer since we don't use it quickly, and it ended up that we never made beef stock, and just did stews with water. This way we get the richness and nutrition without the hassel.  The chicken broth isn't a hassel because we use it..

Our new genius (thanks to my aunt for the idea) is freezing the cooled stock in yogurt containers, like 3 cups in a quart size container.  It's great, so much better than anything we've tried before. (Yes, there might be bpa, but we try to be good about it in everything else, and it's so hard to find the best way to store stock).  We cool the stock so it's cool or cold, put about 3 cups in a container, stick the lid on, and freeze. They stack and take up some space but not TOO much, and then can thaw in the fridge slowly, or in lukewarm water. You can also run enough warm water over it to get it out of the container, then pop the stock ice cube in a pot and melt it fast that way.  We're loving the new method. So much better than plastic bags or glass that breaks.