NEW UPDATE with dx..or not...: Differentiating Gifted OEs/intensity/sensory issues from... - Page 3

[Roar]

Here's my thoughts, which hopefully will make you want to cry less rather than more.

1. The time around 4 is the worst of all possible ages for kids with these kinds of challenges. It is bad because fours tend to be more challenging as a general rule (the subtitle of the 4 year old book is "wild and wonderful" or something like that). Four is old enough you start to think they should know better. This is especially easy for bright ones as it is far too easy to expect they should know better. Four is an age when it is so easy to overestimate kids. Four is when you start looking toward school and worrying about the future. I know nothing about that may be helpful, but if I had a magic power to make moms not worry four be the age I'd choose to use it.

2. In your post I heard something that I'm very familiar with because I've been guilty of it too. You are all in one moment trying to deal with the problems of the past, present, and future. I get it, but I'm telling you it is a really destructive habit because it is way too much to worry about. It sounds like you are adding on problems and sadness of the future - he won't make friends, he will be big and violent, etc.  And, you are also keeping ALL of the present problems and multiplying them exponentially. I get as a fear thing where that's coming from, but I don't think it is accurate or fair. Tons of four year olds who hit would never in a million years hit anyone by age ten. The fact that he feels comforted by only Pippi at age four says nothing about his tastes at age ten. If you think about the growth he's made from birth to the present time he's done amazing things. Learning to walk, talk, understand all sorts of things. He is radically different from the day he was born and four years from now he will be radically different than he is today. That doesn't mean of course he will grow and develop exactly like everyone else or like the most typical kid. He will probably continue to have asychronous, spiky development and he will grow and change in fits and spurts. But, the worst of today will ultimate seem like a distant memory.

3. One of the best techniques suggested to me to cope with some of this stuff is write it on the calendar and give yourself permission not to worry about it for a bit. If you are worried about a specific thing pick a time in the future - in six months or in a year. Is it still happening? If so, try to make a plan to deal with it. If not, let it go.

4. Try to pick individual problems and work on them a little bit at a time. Everything at once is too much. I would try to focus first on any problem that is really making him unhappy or hurting you. Tell yourself the other stuff is not something you have to deal with right now. I would look to anything that makes him feel happy or comforted as a positive. Even though it is understandable that you are ready to be done with Pippi if it brings him comfort it is a good thing. While it may not be typical to only want one story like that, I also won't say it is totally unheard of it developmentally typical kids either. There is a pretty big range of normal.

[Tigerle]

Thank you.

I think I was at a point yesterday when everything he did, not just stuff that I always found challenging, but stuff I always found enjoyable and endearing, looked more and more spectrumy to me. Fear is like this insidious vapour hiding your child.

I kept him home from preschool today because he is still pale and coughing a little from being so sick over the weekend, telling myself that we were going to enjoy each other. The early mroning in bed started out with me having to tell him 10 times within 3 minutes that something he was doing was hurting me, finally having to yell at him. But it went uphill from there and we did enjoy each other. We had to keep a hairdresser's appointment because with the constant twisting of his own hair he keeps creating tangles and knots and he did wonderfully, entertaining the whole salon telling me his musings about all parts of the space shuttle having to be hollow because "the fuel tank has to be hollow because of the fuel inside, the small rockets have to be hollow because the fuel goes through and the plane on top has to be hollow so the astronauts can be in it!"

Everyone smiled at me and I smiled back - a bright little boy really into space! It felt good.

I will try just not to worry until we are actually going for testing next week. And try to read less about ASDs on the web. The internet can be your best friend and your worst enemy in such times.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by Tigerle  The internet can be your best friend and your worst enemy in such times.

So very true.

I do think it is good to also remind yourself there are a world of people with Asperger's who were never diagnosed but have done well. If you need to find them look at a conference for IT, physics, engineering, etc. They aren't pulling their mom's hair and reading Pippi 24 hours a day and your son won't be either. Of course your son deserves to feel better and it is great you are pursuing options that will help him, but try to remember the problems of today will be ones you will be free of as time goes on.

At some point if you haven't already done so it might be a good idea to look at social stories. I'm thinking whatever happens the top priority right now needs to be focusing on stuff that will improve the situation where he's hurting you. That's got to be hardest thing to take.

Oh and a final thought, does it help if I share that no way could my child have handled Pippi at four. He found her a terrifying rule breaker! Fast forward to the teen years and he has diverse reading tastes. He is still on the tame side. He doesn't like to spend his entertainment time being scared. While that was hard to manage in a four year old, it is actually a good thing to have a teenager who will self censor and doesn't seek out inappropriate stuff.

[joensally]

Tigerle, I totally get it.  Roar is right.  And four is a trying time to forecast out from.  In fact, I would view diagnoses at four as possibly transitional.

Playing hookey from RL so rushing, but wanted to share something that gave me real comfort when I was in a place similar to where you're at:  Big Bang Theory.  The guys on this show are quirky as heck, with multiple likely diagnoses (asperger's, gifted, social anxiety, selective mutism, social skills challenges to name a few), but all but one lives independently, all have jobs, all have friends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EAiHxuEWZg

We own the first three seasons, and everyone has changed over time.  Sheldon has definitely made huge progress in his social intuition and integration of social norms, while staying true to himself.

[Tigerle]

Okay, I might get hooked on Big Bang Theory! I think I have met a number of Sheldons in my life...

Roar, I feel this need to clarify that even though I worry about DS' narrow interests in fction, I still love Pippi, and I am glad she is a fictional character in DS' life that he enjoys, and that maybe makes him feel strong.

[joensally]

Oh, and Sheldon's a compulsive corrector as well :)>.

[insidevoice]

You have gotten some great feedback here.  I simply want to toss out that four was really REALLY hard with my 2E daughter, her cognitive and social levels were so wildly divergent that she was always frustrated.  

Several years ahead, I am aware that she will need some extra support to step into adulthood alone, but I know she will get there.  In the meantime, she's an amazing person, and while she does drive me absolutely batty at times when she goes on for hours about her current obsession, she is more amazing than the dreams I had before her diagnosis- even with the quirks- and probably because of them. 

[insidevoice]

Originally Posted by joensally 

Oh, and Sheldon's a compulsive corrector as well :)>.

So am I.  I never really knew that wasn't normal.  I mean, if people are wrong, don't they want to know so they can be right? 

(Yes, socail cues are often beyond me as well.  it's a lot of work to fit in, and I don't always.)

[DeeplyRooted]

Well, it looks just about exactly like that. Repeated weird noises, bodily craziness, repeating, baby talk/ nonsense. She gets in a mood when this comes out, usually when tired or overstimulated. However, her best friend (well, sometimes I wonder if he's a little spectrumy, too, though AFAIK no one else has ever considered that he might be) does all this stuff too, when they're together. They do all this crazy nonsense talk--"Lellll lellll lellll, nothingpigpig" being an example of a phrase they perseverated on last year. I've seen the other boys in her class get totally wild like this, too. I almost think it's a little contagious, so to speak.

Oh yes. My boy and a couple of his preschool friends do this, too!  Their latest goofiness is this, probably invented by my number-loving boy:  "Four nine nine nine nine nine nine nine nine CHICKEN HOUSE!"    Also swatting themselves upside their heads and saying, "Bleh!"  

The other two boys aren't spectrumy at all.  Mine is -- diagnosed with PDD-NOS earlier this year -- but by some accounts, he's growing out of the symptoms. He no longer self-stims with odd eye motions or finger motions, for instance, and his social interactions are better than they were.  According to his preschool teachers, he still needs more support and scaffolding when he interacts with other kids at open-ended activities, but he's not getting further from the norm, at least.  For now, he has an IEP, and he's getting occupational therapy through the school system.  We'll see where this ends up.

I do think the asynchronous development and gifted-related excitabilities show up in odd ways with him, and they may not be ASD-related at all.  Emotionally, he is extremely intense, and that shows up sometimes as social inappropriateness (like when he's angry about something, it spills over into his interactions with everyone).  Also, his tempo is slow -- he takes a while to shift from one activity or train of thought to another -- and that looks like attentional problems, or ignoring social cues. (Yes, he is ignoring social cues, but it's because his brain is completely occupied with his activity.)  And he's unbelievably persistent, even when he's frustrated at not being able to accomplish something, so he hyper-focuses on certain activities.  Or spends all his free time on one activity or toy, day after day.  This month, it's marble runs. Every. single. afternoon.  Is it ASD, or just the way his gifted brain is built? 

[Roar]

Originally Posted by Tigerle 

Roar, I feel this need to clarify that even though I worry about DS' narrow interests in fction, I still love Pippi, and I am glad she is a fictional character in DS' life that he enjoys, and that maybe makes him feel strong.

  Good to play it safe there just in case Pippi comes to life. You really don't want to give her the idea you are tired of her.

[Lollybrat]

Tigerle -

Hugs. You're in a really hard place right now.

My DS is probably 2E - he definately has Autism and he is possibly gifted (he isvery academically advanced, but we are unable to test for giftedness at this point).

It sounds like you are uncertain if Aspergers is the right diagnosis for your child. And that's OK. It's really hard to tell at his age. As long as you provide him with the support and the instruction he needs and you keep an open mind about what may come, it's OK to be unsure of the diagnosis. As he grows and develops, you may become more sure one way or another (or you may not, such is the nature of ASD at times).

But even if your child does have an ASD, I want to tell you that his development is not set in stone. ASD presents many challenges, but it also provides certain strengths. And children with ASD do develop and change and progress. It just takes longer and a lot more work and pateince.

Several of the things that concern you are similar to my son, who is now almost 7. So I wanted to share my experiences with you.

Originally Posted by Tigerle 

I used to love talking with him. No matter how exhausted I was, I always thought listeing to him was such fun. My DH used to say, listening to us in the next room was better than any radio program. My mom used to say “ you can talk with him like you would with a little grown up.” These days more often than not he will ignore what you are saying, just go off on tangents, or spurt downright nonsense or make noises. I am afraid he will grow more incoherent and harder to talk to. He sometimes seems like a stranger to me even now. And I don’t know whether it is my fears projecting or an actual change (though DH admits the recent nonsense-spouting drives him crazy, too). I am still hoping it is just a phase.

My son is like this. He is verbal, but struggles with pragmatics (the social use of language). But just recently he has started making great progress in this area. His language is suddenly showing a greater awreness of himself and other people. He is trying harder to connect with us verbally. It's really amazing.

He has alway been aggressive towards me in his sensory seeking and his fixation with my hair, and never seemed to understand how much he hurt me both physically and emotionally. I thought it was a toddler thing and he’d at some point grow out of it. Now I am afraid he will grow more and more dangerous and hurtful as he grows bigger and stronger but remains aggressive.

My son went through a very aggressive phase around age 4.5 - 5. It was often due to him being frustrated with the person or with the situation. He would get overwhelmed with the emotion and lash out. But it got to the point where I was worried about taking him to playgroup, because I didn't know if he would hurt the other children and the other kids were afraid of him. And there was day he gave me a concussion. We feared what would happen as he continued to get bigger and stronger. We ended up putting him on medication for a while. It was one of the hardest decisions we ever made. But the medication took the edge off his emotions enough that we were able to teach him other ways of dealing with his anger and frustration. We worked on this intensely. After many months we weaned him off the medication and his aggression did not return.

Of course not all kids with ASD need medication. But my point is that just becuase a child is aggressive at age 4 does not mean that he will continue to be aggressive as he gets bigger and stronger. Kids with ASD can learn other ways of interacting.

<snip>

I was disappointed that he insisted I stop singing to him at night because all the lullabies made him said. He often stopped from singing during the day, too. For some reason, stuff they learn in preschool is fine for us to sing together, but I have become very wary about singing in front of him. I was hoping that one day we might make music together anyway. Not sure that is ever gonna happen.

We went through this as well. When DS was an infant and toddler, he loved for me to sing to him. Then all of a sudden, he would not let me sing. Recently, he has started to sing to us and with us.This school year he has gotten very interested in all sorts of music.  

I was looking forward so much to introducing him to books. All he wants to read is nonfiction. I can’t read any fiction that is not supergentle. I was waiting for him to grow out of this as he matured. Now I am afraid it is not going to happen and  i will not be able to share things which him I care so much about, just like the music.

DS started reading when he was 2 and from the start he definately perfered non-fiction books to stories. He always would let me read some stories to him, but he loveshis non-fiction books best of all. And that's OK. he has some amazing books about trains, dinosaurs, airplanes, the rainforest, space, insects, etc. And there are lots of well-written, really fun to read non-fiction books out there. Non-fiction made sense to him. It's stratight-forward and factual. It's fun to memorize. Stories confused him, because fiction - even fiction for young kids - requires a social understanding that DS just couldn't get. But then, right around the time he turned 6, DS suddenly got intersted in a couple of fiction series. He loves the "Roscoe Riley Rules" books and the "Flat Stanley" series. There are not great literature, but they are funny and he understands the characters. It's a start and I'm thrilled with it.  

I am afraid he will be very lonely, never realize his potential, want to make friends but be unable to.

I understand how you are afraid of these things. But having an ASD does not mean these things. My son is learning how to make friends. It's a challenge, but it's something we work on a lot and the school works on with him. He does have friends, or at least he has kids he likes to play with. Some are kids from his autism classroom. Some are kids from his regular 1st grade class (he is partially mainstreamed). His friends from the regular class are the quirky, awkward kids (not on the spectrum, but not quite fitting in with other kids). But that's OK - they're good kids and they have fun with DS. 

I know that my son has a huge potential. He has an amzing capacity to learn, a near-photogrpahic memeory, and a unique perspective on the world. He has many gifts and talents and I know that there are talents within him that we have not seen yet. We nurture and encourage the gifts we see. And we try to expose him to many different experiences and opportunities in order to explore what other talents he may have.

A supportive, nurturing environment and a loving acceptance of your son for who he is will go a long way to helping him realize his potential, whether he is on the spectrum or not.

I am afraid that his quirks will go from endearing to annoying to off-putting and fear-inducing, and that I will not be able to love my little boy as I used to.

Some of his quirks will be annoying. Some may drive you mad at times. Some will melt your heart. Some will make you giggle when he leaves the room. He will always be your little boy and you will love him. Because that is what good mothers do and you are a good mother.  

I have to go now because this is just making me cry.

Hugs.

[Tigerle]

Thank you, Lolly. From the bottom of my heart.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by Greenmama2 

Originally Posted by Casha'sMommy 

OP- I'm a little nervous I've been in denial about dd (4.5yo).

Ditto here.

Casha'sMommy, Greenmama2 ,

I keep meaning to come back here to remind you as well as myself that DS hasn't been diagnosed yet, that it is possible that the psychs are mislabeling and that I am overreacting! On bad days I worry I have been in denial, on good days (like today, most of) i'm sure I haven't! Please don't end up like me obsessing over every trait of your child...

[Casha'sMommy]

Originally Posted by Tigerle 

Casha'sMommy, Greenmama2 ,

I keep meaning to come back here to remind you as well as myself that DS hasn't been diagnosed yet, that it is possible that the psychs are mislabeling and that I am overreacting! On bad days I worry I have been in denial, on good days (like today, most of) i'm sure I haven't! Please don't end up like me obsessing over every trait of your child...

I'm so sorry I haven't been back here. My grandmother fell last weekend and lots of stuff came with that so I haven't been on here much at all this week.

Thank you so much for your kind words. I have tried to keep in mind that dd is just dd and I do think that's what it is but there are times and days that 14mo ds is in danger of being hurt because of dds behavior. That's just not fair to ds, or dd for that matter, and I feel it's in everyone's best interest to investigate how we can best address dds behaviors. Sometimes the behaviors occur because dds bored. So I rearrange the play room, I moved a folding banquet table upstairs so dd can do puzzles and color and such without ds getting into her things. The biggest issue with this is that when, for example, dd does puzzles she has to do them all every time. If ds gets into her puzzles, moves them out of "order" or takes pieces out dd just absolutely freaks out. She bit his fingers the other day because she was so out of control over his trying to participate in her activity.  DD cannot handle ds playing Lego's his way. In her opinion, Lego's were meant to be lined up on the Lego table in order of color. I can just watch dd get increasingly upset in situations like this and this kind of thing almost always turns into dd losing it. DD also tends to stim auditorally when she's overwhelmed or upset or tired. This is something I'm concerned about because too much sound tends to make dd upset and she's intentionally making more of it.

I bought a few new hs items that dd considers toys. fwiw, I got things I felt were right at her level and something I knew would be a little beyond her so I can keep that in my stash. She's blown right through all the appropriate stuff and totally lost interest in it all. I've tried to come up with new ways to use what we have and that really only lasts a short while. She just goes through everything so fast, I almost can't keep up. I know this is due in part to the weather and not being able to get out to play every single day and that will change very soon but transitioning away from the park or the garden or bike riding is always a challenge so I'm also dreading the weather change. Lately I've come to realize just how it is that so many gifted children are misdiagnosed.

OK see, this is why I said maybe I need my own thread. lol

Thanks again Tigerle. I hope for the best for you and your family. You've been in my thoughts often.

[Tigerle]

We had the ADOS and the ADI today and it appears that things are getting ever more fuzzy...

Of course we haven't got any scores yet and do not know when those are going to be discussed with us (did I mention they're useless at communication?) But the psychologist who did the ADI with me and who had, together with a colleague, done the ADOS with him, did not appear to have observed much that fit Asperger's, but social reciprocity and appeared to be chiefly struck with how bright he was and how he had kept focusing on his drawing even while they were blowing bubbles. 

I was a bit disappointed with the ADI because we just covered what we'd been covering before in the initial consultation and some of the questionnaires, just in more detail, and in fact the psychiatrist who'd done the initial consultation appeared more thorough (it was a lot of "does he focus on parts of toys, like the wheels of cars?" and "does he answer questions or just repeat what you've said" again). She also said things like" that really rules out autism" when discussing that he could play pretend, make up stories and even lie. I felt that I had to remind her that we were testing for Asperger's where AFAIK it doesn't, and described how we had to structure play with age peers. (I had to think of my initial question "can you talk your child into or out of a diagnosis??".

We also discussed his interests and while agreeing that they were unusual and unusually intense for his age they were really too wide and varied for Asperger's, wax and wane and are often in context (for instance, when taking a mini break in the mountains last weekend, he got interested in cable cars when we rode one and in classifying the lengths of tunnels when we traveled through several). Also, apparently it does not fit Asperger's that a number of his interests are shared end enjoyed by the grownups in his life  - after all his father enjoys showing him how to draw the plan for a nuclear plant, I like looking at his volcano books with him etc... (or maybe we are all just weird like that?) She mentioned that she had glanced at his scores in the developmental test (the ones we're not supposed to get at this point so there won't be "bias") and they were extremely uneven, showing him way ahead in some subtests and with weaknesses in others, and recommended IQ testing at some point...I really want to get my hand on those scores because she mentioned that she seemed to remember he was ahead in a visuomotor subtest and behind in a verbal subtest which AFAIK is the complete opposite of the profile you'd expect for AS.  Sometimes I wonder whether we should have turned at the Gifted unit as opposed to Children's and have the part that might be "just gifted" teased out first...

However, I described what I think are finger stimming and verbal stimming, his hairpulling obsession and oral sensory seeking, his inability to understand boundaries and the inflexibility, explosions and ritualizing which happen at least once a day over stuff we do "wrong", usually in the mornings or evenings or right after preschool when he is exhausted, and which have him yell, sobbing, again and again, stuff like "we have to start over and sleep the night and then you don't get up before I do" and occasionally physically attack us if we don't comply, and how he often made me feel like chew toy or fidget toy - she agreed that that sounded very much like Asperger's.

I hope they hurry with the scoring because I hope that whatever the result, we can get them to prescribe OT and recommend someone with experience with this particular kind of sensory seeking, because the part that is aggressive towards me and sometimes towards DD really wears me out and undermines our relationship. I can't even imagine how medication would help that - I will remove his hands, telling him "hanging off my neck hurts me" and he'll whine "okay okay, I just want to stroke you" and I let go if his hands and he just does it anyway, giggling.

However, the other day I lost it and yelled at him "I am not a chew toy!" and he actually appeared to get it, calmly saying "yes" and stopping what he was doing (pulling my hair to put in his mouth and chew on).

We did not get into Pippi Longstocking. It's not on the ADI, apparently. I'd been wondering whether to make a list of stuff I wanted to discuss but didn't because I felt that the standardization of topics covered was kinda the point of the exercise. And I somehow felt that she wouldn't get why it worried me that over a year ago, on our first reading of Pippi, he sat through seven chapters straight and would not let me stop (it was I who had to insist on a break at that point) but now had to be coaxed into trying out any other chapter book, even other Lindgren books, claiming that the likes of "Noisy Village" make him sad...) - because even his Pippi phases come and go and he does want some non-fiction, but only picture books he knows very well...it's just the trajectory of this development that seems off to me, not his catual behaviour at this moment...

I just don't know. What a jumble. Sorry for how disjointed this post is.

[Roar]

I'm not surprised it is fuzzy. I think he's at the point where nobody is going to be able to give you something more clear cut. I would be suspicious of anyone who did!

Your best bet is to hopefully get that OT referral and maybe a referral to someone who can help with the gifted/behavioral part of the piece.

Forgive me for having a mind like a sieve, but have we talked at all about omega 3 supplementation or other supplements. I have seen kids who really decreased sensory seeking when they had adequate magnesium, zinc, and omega 3. Zinc made a HUGE difference for our son's chewing and oral sensory seeking stuff right around that age. Omega 3 made quite a bit of difference with emotional regulation as well. Apologies if this has been discussed to death earlier on another thread.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by Roar 

I'm not surprised it is fuzzy. I think he's at the point where nobody is going to be able to give you something more clear cut. I would be suspicious of anyone who did!

Your best bet is to hopefully get that OT referral and maybe a referral to someone who can help with the gifted/behavioral part of the piece.

Forgive me for having a mind like a sieve, but have we talked at all about omega 3 supplementation or other supplements. I have seen kids who really decreased sensory seeking when they had adequate magnesium, zinc, and omega 3. Zinc made a HUGE difference for our son's chewing and oral sensory seeking stuff right around that age. Omega 3 made quite a bit of difference with emotional regulation as well. Apologies if this has been discussed to death earlier on another thread.

Roar, I don't believe you have a mind like a sieve!

We started supplementing with fish oil some time before Christmas, which appeared to help with focus and fidgeting (if only we wouldn't keep forgetting to take it! I wish this were one of the routines DS would obsess about!). Magnesium was also discussed in the thread I started before Christmas, and I bought supplements (drinks), but DS decided he didn't like them. I have to shop around for preschooler friendly stuff: Zinc hasn't been mentioned yet; I'll check out what I can find.

O dear, I am so hungry for answers and now will have to be suspicious of anyone who would give them...

Edited to add that I started googling and immediately found the perfect liquid zinc-mag combination for stress relief and better performance - only it's for horses!

Oh and I meant to ask: by "I think he's at the point" do you mean age-wise/developmentally, meaning we may get a clearer picture if we reevaluate in a few years or do you mean "at a point on the spectrum" where his issues will always remain fuzzy?

[Roar]

Some four year olds can learn to swallow pills. There are a lot of directions online for teaching pill swallowing using bits of candy. Maybe worth a try. If you search under "liquid zinc" you should pull up some options. Also, if it is not part of the evalution or you haven't already done it I would make sure he's got a good physical evaluation including a check for anemia and heavy metals like lead. It may also be worth looking at any possible food sensitivities.
 

Originally Posted by Tigerle 
Oh and I meant to ask: by "I think he's at the point" do you mean age-wise/developmentally, meaning we may get a clearer picture if we reevaluate in a few years or do you mean "at a point on the spectrum" where his issues will always remain fuzzy?

For kids who are gifted/quirky/sensory/intense/possibly a bit ASD - around age four is a really difficult time. They can be difficult to understand and difficult to live with. That isn't to say ASD diagnoses are never correct in kids this age. It is to say that for the really quirky and bright ones, it can be very difficult to impossible to tease out what is gifted and what is something else. Misdiagnosis is a real possibility. So, if all you end up with from this evaluation is "yeah, this kid is mighty quirky, let's focus on working on getting him some sensory help and working on these behaviors" I'd call that good enough and perhaps more reliable than a firm ASD diagnosis.

Not being able to get a firm diagnosis isn't to say you have to push the pause button and remain in this place of worry for years. You will find things that help and you will do them. He will mature and in time it will become more clear if he's really on the spectrum. It will get better. This isn't to say he's going to be super "normal". Even if he never gets and ASD diagnosis there are likely to be quirky/spectrumy behaviors (but not hair pulling or the stuff of right now - that will go) as he gets older. It all depends on how widely we want to define the spectrum. There's a lot we could define as about giftedness or about being on the spectrum. Aside from insurance reasons, I don't think it matters what you call it so much as it does that you find ways to help him with stuff that is making him (and you) unhappy.

[joensally]

I'm just going to agree with what Roar said.   It sounds like the clinicians are seeing some of what you're seeing, and agreeing it that it's out of norm but not being too quick to ascribe it to a particular diagnosis.  Can they refer you for services that will be covered?  That would be good!  If they don't come up with a firm diagnosis but acknowledge something is up, will that affect his school placement?  I don't recall, are there gifted schools or streams where you are?  Can this team refer you to the gifted "section" I think you called it?

You might find reading over at Davidson Gifted Forum interesting - there are a lot of discussions about testing and uneven scoring.  DS always has uneven scoring - but he has sensory issues, vision issues and fine motor issues - it's hard nailing stuff down with him.   It's common for gifted kids to have lower processing speed and working memory scores, and while these tests your son did may not be IQ tests, some of it may rely on PS and WM. 

As for supps - apple sauce.  My son will take just about anything in apple sauce.  When he was four, I sometimes used yogurt, and there was a period when I didn't replace a light bulb because it was dimmer and he wouldn't notice the "bits" I was trying to get into him. Now he's cooperative because he's older and he understands why he takes them.  Just make the apple sauce/yogurt part of a daily meal or snack to make it easier to remember.   I buy supps in capsules where I can't get them loose and empty it in.  I also agree to screen for allergies/sensitivities if you haven't already.

Tigerle, it's progress. Slow, but progress.

,

[Roar]

Originally Posted by joensally  When he was four, I sometimes used yogurt, and there was a period when I didn't replace a light bulb because it was dimmer and he wouldn't notice the "bits" I was trying to get into him.

LOL! What a perfect illustration of the juggling required to parent a quirky preschooler. It is like you were keeping track of so many things that with the same amount of effort you could have been in charge of NASA.