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Is this normal or is there something wrong with my son (or with me)????

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
DS nursed basically round-the-clock for his first year+ -- and I do NOT mean every 1.5-2hours... I mean, he would latch on for 20minutes, take a 5-10 minute break, latch on for 20+ minutes again, pretty much all day every day. Once or twice he slept several hours straight at night, but that turned out to be because he was sick. I had a HUGE oversupply & it didn't get under control 'til he was over a year (I stopped eating gluten around 18mos and that seemed to help a ton with it!)

So around 14mos he started eating tiny amounts of table food and around 18mos we kind of forced it more so he was eating about 10% table food... now at 2yo he is up to around 30% table food (maybe even 40-50% on some days) but he is still nursing constantly -- usually once or twice an hour for 5-30 minutes a shot.

OK so several nights ago I decided to try to get him to go to sleep without nursing... which went OK (he fought it, but eventually did fall asleep with a ton of help from me) and this seemed to help a bit with the all-night nursing. He has (very reluctantly) fallen asleep without nursing for all but one of the last 5-6 days. So he no longer nurses between 11pm - 5am (give or take an hour) except 1 or 2 rough nights. He still nurses every 15-90 minutes or so the rest of the night.

However during the day.... he's been latched on literally ALL DAY for the last 2 days... occasionally takes a (forced) break for 5 minutes tops. He can't be distracted by anything -- not another drink, a snack, a fun game, his favorite activity (reading!), an outing, NOTHING. Is this a reaction to partial night-weaning??? Is that normal?? He doesn't seem to be teething & he's thrown up twice but doesn't seem sick (he has always thrown up when nursing a lot though, plus he sometimes gets carsick).

Obviously I'm most worried (OK maybe 'annoyed' is a better word!) by the last few days of nonstop nursing, but it also had me really thinking about how he nurses in general. I have friends that nurse their 2yo's but none of them nurse more than 1-3 times a day. I have friends with newborns but they nurse no more than once every 1-3 hours. DS nurses way more than any newborn I've ever seen (friends, LLL meetings, etc.), and he's TWO. I have never ever met or heard of another child that nurses as often as DS does. So now I'm starting to think, is there something wrong with him?? Could he have some kind of metabolic disorder or something????

Please someone talk me through this, I feel like either something is wrong with him or something is wrong with me. This just doesn't seem normal no matter how I look at it.
post #2 of 17

I would think that everything is OK, as long as you and DS are healthy, except that this doesn't seem mentally/ emotionally healthy for you. I would go see a lactation consultant if I were you.

The other things I can think of (though I'm sure you've tried) is feeding him cereal mixed with breast milk to ease him into it, increasing your protein intake to try to increase the protein in your milk to fill him up more, and doing breast compressions with feeds to try to get more milk into him and fill him up faster to give you a break. Also, if you still have oversupply, you could express milk so that someone else can give him a bottle and give you a break. Good luck!

post #3 of 17
I would assume this is behavioral. Just like some kids walk around with pacifiers all the time. So I wouldn't be worried but I wouldn't tolerate it either. I mean I couldn't. I would go insane with that. I'd work on limits pronto!
post #4 of 17

This does sound at the far end of high needs to me.  I would highly recommend reading "Mothering Your Nursing Toddler". It gives great insight into both the toddler's mindset and the relationship in general.  

post #5 of 17

Hi Mama,

I agree with pps... and the book mentioned above might be really helpful to you.  It sounds like you are in a frustrating situation.

Have you tried replacing some nursing sessions with someother special activity for the two of you?  This may be your LOs best way of connecting with you, and he may be sensing your frustration.  Can you replace/delay a feeding with a special book, art activity, cooking project with you, trip to the playground, etc?

Good luck!

~maddymama

post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 
OK well the reaction to nightweaning (or illness or whatever it was) seems to have subsided so he's not CONSTANTLY nursing now, he's back to asking once or twice an hour. He's able to be redirected about 50% of the time so I'm only nursing him every 0.5-2 hours now which is more tolerable. Early mornings are tough because the last ~5 hours of the night he wants to nurse constantly again (though he is getting through 5-7 hours in the first part of the night which is great!) Naps are still a problem because he will ONLY nurse to sleep and wants to stay latched on the whole nap which is incredibly uncomfortable for me (his latch gets pretty bad when he's sleeping) so he ends up waking up every time I try to unlatch him so he's pretty tired. I am thinking of trying the 'nightweaning' techniques we used for naps as well but want him to get fully adjusted to the night thing first.

We do a lot of 'special' things together to stay connected, everything from taking baths to going to the library (his favorite thing ever!), activities, reading, etc. I spend a TON of time 1-on-1 with him and right now DH is home every day as well (he's laid off) so he has pretty much constant attention from one or the other of us! Sometimes it's really frustrating though because I WANT to do even more with him, but I spend so much time nursing him that there often just isn't time in the day for anything else (or I just need some time to myself).

I guess I'm worried because from age 1 to age 2 he has only gained 2lbs. (He's grown 5 or 6" though)... He just wants to nurse and he hardly touches food. Some days he eats pretty well but many (most) days he just takes a bite or two of his meals/snacks, if that. He's also not very active -- he will only run around if I chase him, like a game, otherwise he is pretty much always in my lap or my arms, or lately, just walking around the house (a new -- and welcome -- development!)

It's interesting that you all seem to think it's a behavioral thing. I guess I was looking at it from a different perspective. Maybe I am just not trying hard enough to set limits. I feel like I am but maybe I'm not. I just feel that our whole nursing experience (from the day he was born) is so completely different (mainly, more constant & frequent) than anything I've seen with other babies or in my reading...
post #7 of 17

Hi Mama,

We are going off of the information you gave us, if you think it's a medical thing then PLEASE contact your pedi and have medical issues, gastro issues, or allergies weeded out before you do anything else. As the mama, you know your kiddo the best.  Follow your gut.

Also, breastfeeding is a relationship and it has to work for the both of you.  If having him nursing the entire time he naps is hard on you, work with him to nurse to sleep and then over a period of time gently work with him to sleep without nursing.  It might be rough, but I think you can do it.

Good luck, and always follow your gut instinct when it comes to your child.

~maddymama

post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post


It's interesting that you all seem to think it's a behavioral thing. I guess I was looking at it from a different perspective. Maybe I am just not trying hard enough to set limits. I feel like I am but maybe I'm not. I just feel that our whole nursing experience (from the day he was born) is so completely different (mainly, more constant & frequent) than anything I've seen with other babies or in my reading...
I guess I'm thinking behavioral because a lot of what you write are things my son would have LIKED, too. He'd have liked to nurse every hour. He still (4.5) is a crappy eater and definitely at that age would much rather nurse. the idea of me napping next to him every day and nursing all through it would have been blissful to him. But all those things were completely impractical for US and nothing I allowed. I couldn't bear being his sole source of nutrition so had to cut him down to 3 or 4 times a day (nights were different) so that he'd actually feel hunger. At a pretty young age I had to gently extract myself from his nap because I'd lose my mind lying down every day.

I guess I know people here cringe at the pacifier analogy but I don't think it's a negative association. I just think that for some kids they really want to nurse ALL THE TIME because it feels nice. But you know, there are lots of things that are 'nice'. Life has to happen, too. winky.gif So that's where limits come in, for me.
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
I am so incredibly frustrated.

I try setting limits. He wants to nurse every 20 minutes, but the furthest I can spread it out is every 1-2 hours... I try to get him to nap without nursing but he screams hysterically and just stays awake all day long (and doesn't go to sleep any earlier) and ends up really sleep deprived.

Just now, I tried nursing him to sleep and he wakes up every time I try to withdraw the nipple. I tried over and over and finally he just sat up and went to play. He didn't nap -- unless you count 3 minutes to be a nap. And now he's going to be cranky again later today, and I don't feel well, and I just can't take this.

Seriously, I'm trying hard not to burst into tears but I just can't get this right. I can't deal with him when he's overtired and I can't keep getting sleep-deprived myself, or having my nipples chewed off (for some reason he clamps down in his sleep).

I don't understand how this is supposed to work. I don't think it's just something he enjoys/prefers... I do think he "needs" it but I don't understand why. I don't know how to set limits and still meet his legitimate needs without seriously sacrificing my own even more than I already have.

mecry.gif
post #10 of 17

With DD1 who was a frequent nurser (not quite to your extreme), I had to withdraw the nipple at nap time for several days in a row before she just decided to sleep without it.... we have several naps where she acted like you described.  Finally one day she was sooo tired (I think we went to the playground for 2 hours that morning) that she just rolled over and slept through the nipple withdrawl.  After that it was two steps forwards, one step back type of a thing before she would nap with out nursing in her sleep. 

I know it's frustrating.... but it will take time.....

Is there anyone who can spell you a nap for you when your LO doesn't nap?  Or help you get enough rest even if your LO isn't well-rested?

Good luck!

~maddymama

post #11 of 17
Thread Starter 
My DH is laid off so he's been trying to help -- although at the same time, we're trying to avoid changing DS's routine too much, both for the sake of continuity as well as for when DH finds a job, because I work from home & if things change too much (say, we give up on DS napping) then I won't be able to get enough hours in to keep our health insurance. I guess it's something I'm really stressed about. I also have major insomnia, so even if DH takes DS for a bit (or I manage to get DS to sleep), it's almost impossible for me to actually fall asleep, no matter how worn out I am. That's all my own fault, not DS's obviously, but it just makes me less tolerant (and less rested!) than I might otherwise be.

I've been working on the sleeping-without-the-nipple thing for most of the last 1.5 years & it still hasn't taken. He fights sleep so much. Sometimes he will sleep in the car, but we can't do that every day (takes too much gas that we just can't afford, and it's way too hit-or-miss!) and we have been trying to get him to sleep in the ergo but that's only successful when he's already way way overtired (plus it's freezing outside so it's just not realistic to do that every day either). I don't mind most of the time -- even enjoy -- if he sleeps in my lap, but I don't want to nurse him. I guess I've just always had a hard time nursing him... it's not always painful but I just can't stand staying in one position like that, I need to fidget a lot, and his latch gets very uncomfortable, and my back hurts, etc. (haha sorry I'm totally starting to whine here... I have a horrible cold and am trying to finish up work and get DS to sleep and DH is asking me stupid questions and all I want to do is curl up in a ball and cry)

Anyway. I guess back to my main question, it sounds like what DS's crazy need to nurse is 'normal' -- and I guess that's really what I need to know. I had been wondering if there was a point where frequent nursing became problematic or symptomatic of a larger issue, but it sounds like I am just over-reacting & just need to deal with it. Somehow.
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post

t

Anyway. I guess back to my main question, it sounds like what DS's crazy need to nurse is 'normal' -- and I guess that's really what I need to know. I had been wondering if there was a point where frequent nursing became problematic or symptomatic of a larger issue, but it sounds like I am just over-reacting & just need to deal with it. Somehow.

Well, how long have you given, say the no perma-nursing during naps thing? My son definitely didn't nap as well for a while but he got over it within, say a week. We had some awful days and some really ugly moments but it had to be done because I was losing my mind. (this was when I was weaning). You say you've been trying for a long time but how about just flat out refusing? For say a week (for naps) and see?

I think the 'want' to nurse that much is normal but I think if he's really not adjusting to your limits then maybe there is something going on. How is his speech? How is he if you leave for a day? My husband takes my kids out for a few hours on a Saturday and that helped them to transition.

It really sounds to me like it's time to put your needs first and if he really CAN'T adjust to that then maybe see about getting some help. There might be something simple you're missing. It's hard!
post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
Yeah I've tried the flat-out refusing thing for several days but I will admit I don't think I've given it more than a week and I've been a bit inconsistent on it, mostly because he's already so sleep-deprived even when everything is going 'fine"...

His speech is OK, he has thousands of words and has been talking in sentences since ~16mos IIRC.

I have never, ever left him for more than 2-3 hours... DH has been taking DS out more (or I'll go out by myself) so I can get a break, and he does OK, but I don't think he'd do OK with more than 3 hours. I can't imagine leaving him for a whole day, it's only been in the past few months that I've even been able to go out for an hour or two. He has extreme separation anxiety, started from the moment he was born, though it's improving lately. He's also just very anxious/fearful in general... hops into my arms anytime the furnace kicks in or a truck goes by in the distance (claims they are 'loud noises') and will not talk to friends/family and sits in my lap the entire time we are out -- doesn't run around or climb or play like the other kids seem to, because he's just timid I guess.
post #14 of 17
It's tough. And I feel for you because of course you're trying your best! The only thing I can share is something that I've found with my son, who is on the anxious side, too (and most definitely was at that age). things had to be VERY black and white. It would have made him way worse to try and kind of 'fob him off' and hope to keep doing that for 2 hours, with him asking every 20 minutes. What worked nursing wise at least was to be very deliberate and confident. ONLY nursing at specific times. For that to be extremely structured and routine.

I am personally not like that (structured, routined) and it's a daily effort for me but even now (age 4.5) he REALLY needs it.

You'll find something that works! Remember - your oxygen mask goes on first.
post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 
I was thinking about that last night, that he might do better with a very set -- even rigid -- nursing schedule. I am so, so not a 'schedule' person either, in fact I kind of rebel against it due to being so over-scheduled for so many years. I'm anxious at just the thought of a schedule!! It's something I may need to try though. I'm not positive it will work -- in my mind, partial nightweaning is a 'schedule' of sorts, and he has a horrible time sticking to that (CANNOT wait until the sun comes up...) so at this point, it's either go more structured, or just forget the whole thing and go back to nursing on cue... neither is an appealing option... but I guess at least I have options....
post #16 of 17
Yea I could never do partial nightweaning or 'sun comes up'. That would have driven DS insane. Had to be absolutes. No more nursing in bed. It really helps his anxiety to know what to expect. Even the OT we're seeing now for his food anxiety emphases it.

The definite schedule also gave us long breaks in the day for him to develop other soothing skills. He totally 'outgrew' nursing. It wasn't enough to keep him calm so he wanted more and more of it. Taking that option away at least some of the time opened up other options for us. Even something as simple as being able to leave him more often so he could strengthen his relationship with his daddy.

I've had to admit that all my 'child led' stuff with DS was totally the wrong approach for his personality (my DD is different). If I followed his lead with everything he'd get himself totally caught up in his anxiety. He needs clear direction, limits and to be pushed so he gets more confidence. Like he LOVES school now but that was a challenge at the start (started him when he was 3). Every new thing I push him a little bit to do makes him stronger and reinforces his self confidence. But I definitely had to change my approach when it became obvious that he really wasn't happy (unless he was doing exactly what he wanted to do, which was making me unhappy!) and was falling behind his peers.

It's tough b/c I too have anxiety.
post #17 of 17

hi! sorry i'm not going to be much help but wanted to say my ds sounds alot like yours with the frequent nursing (seemed like 23 out of 24 hours a day he was latched on when he was little) he's 2 yrs 3 months and still nurses sometimes multiple times an hour. last week he started nursing round the clock agan and refusing food/drink and i was going crazy! (also have a newborn lol so i was constantky nursng two kiddos) it turns out he was getting a cold and it got better or normal for us at least later. my only advce is to hang in there and try talking to him about it

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