Gifted kids and diet

[wami]

I came across something, I think on MDC, about how gifted kids metabolize food differently. I've been noticing that my DD, age 3, is showing some signs of hypoglycemia. At the very least, she is a very hungry girl. I've, rather unconsciously, been following the Ellen Satter way of doing set meal times, but my DD lately has been complaining of hunger between meals and snack time. Could be a growth spurt, but she has always been a pretty voracious eater. She's also been making leaps and bounds, it seems, in her verbal, musical and imaginative life -- practically composes mini-musicals on daily basis, with the end of every stanza rhyming, has developed an elaborate network of imaginary friends, etc. 

Anyone know what I'm talking about? 

[WaturMama]

I'm interested in your post. Maybe a poll would be helpful. I'd do it myself if it weren't bedtime. Maybe I will later, though you feel free if you are inspired to.

My ds, age almost-6, definitely needs snacks between meals and before bed, otherwise he has meltdown. If he gets too hungry, he doesn't feel hungry, which makes it challenging to get him to eat. He also is very sensitive to sugar. He gets quite obnoxious. It is easy to tell if he's been given a treat at school by his behavior.

[zebra15]

Reactive hypogyclemia (sp).  I cant get the dr to take me seriously but I am postive ds has it.  I need better health insurance but all the reading I've done has be convinced.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by wami 

I came across something, I think on MDC, about how gifted kids metabolize food differently. I've been noticing that my DD, age 3, is showing some signs of hypoglycemia. At the very least, she is a very hungry girl. I've, rather unconsciously, been following the Ellen Satter way of doing set meal times, but my DD lately has been complaining of hunger between meals and snack time. Could be a growth spurt, but she has always been a pretty voracious eater. She's also been making leaps and bounds, it seems, in her verbal, musical and imaginative life -- practically composes mini-musicals on daily basis, with the end of every stanza rhyming, has developed an elaborate network of imaginary friends, etc. 

Anyone know what I'm talking about? 

I am not sure that I know - what I think of as reactive hypoglycemia looks different in our house. DS doens not notice that he gets hungry if it's time for a meal or snack - he suddenly goes into meltdowns or tantrums, the way waturmama describes, and needs to be coaxed into eating to get back to normal. I think it is not necessarily about the absolute amount fuel these kids need, but how quickly their blood sugar drops as soon as they have burnt through it and how they react (ie with behavioral symptoms as opposed to just realizing "oh, I'm hungry". I still have problems with that one, although I am a functional adult. DH sometimes says "listen I am not even going to talk to you until you've had a bite to eat!"). DS is very thin (probably because he'd rather talk through a meal than eat) but with regular protein-rich meals and snacks he does fine. if you feel that your daughter needs abnormal amounts of food at abnormal times, I would ask a ped about that.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by zebra15 

Reactive hypogyclemia (sp).  I cant get the dr to take me seriously but I am postive ds has it.  I need better health insurance but all the reading I've done has be convinced.

Unless you are worried about a more serious metabolic condition, I do not understand why you need better health insurance? Reactive hypoglycemia isn't something that you need medical intervention for, you need regular protein-rich meals to regulate your blood sugar. You need to keep a sachet of nuts in your purse and an eye on the clock (and maybe you need to tell teachers to watch out for this too). That's it - it is really very little intervention and will make a great difference in the behaviour of your child.

[whatsnextmom]

I don't know that I buy the gifted connection. Young children in general do better with a "grazing" sort of diet... eating small quantities all day instead of big meals. You figure as babies they eat every 2 hours. It takes some time to grow out of that. Both my kids were grazers but eventually out-grew it. Well, DS still has grazer tendancies at 10 but he also has an oral motor aversion diagnosis (many foods cause him to gag) and so he has better luck with breakfast and lunch but often can't eat much of dinner. He does snack a few times between lunch and dinner to make up the calories. During growth spurts, they eat all the time too.

[Casha'sMommy]

I'm curious about this one.

I've got two gifted dc, and one suspected. Two are hypoglycemic and most definitely require food to be available at all times and insufficient amounts of protein cause lots of problems. An interesting thing about the two of them is that their ages differ by 12 years and the older dd has been like this since she was very young. They have a pretty decent list of common traits and behaviors while also being hypoglycemic. They're an interesting pair, sometimes it seems as if older dd was cloned. lol

ETA: Meant to add that 4yo dd also must be told to eat sometimes because she gets so busy she won't eat on her own for hours and hours. This is usually resolved by just having mostly grazing options and finger foods available for her. Everyone else seems to eat when they're hungry.

[A-time-to-live]

Can someone post a link to more info on reactive hypoglycemia? I'm wondering if this is what we've been struggling with. DD seems to have issues if she doesn't eat every 1.5-2 hours and everytime she eats a source of protein must be included. For some reason daycare can't seem to get this. The other day they did actually give her most of the food that I sent but when I picked her up they were feeding her pretzels. (They are not supposed to give her any food other than what I send.) I occasionally give her pretzels but they are always no salt 100% whole grain. She ended up melting down similar to the way she would if not given protein with a meal - even though she had also eaten the snack I provided. I've been wondering if the refined pretzels with salt could have contributed. Any thoughts?

I know - totally not a gifted story/question - sorry. It just seemed to fit the thread maybe?

[quaz]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

I don't know that I buy the gifted connection. Young children in general do better with a "grazing" sort of diet... eating small quantities all day instead of big meals. You figure as babies they eat every 2 hours. It takes some time to grow out of that. Both my kids were grazers but eventually out-grew it. Well, DS still has grazer tendancies at 10 but he also has an oral motor aversion diagnosis (many foods cause him to gag) and so he has better luck with breakfast and lunch but often can't eat much of dinner. He does snack a few times between lunch and dinner to make up the calories. During growth spurts, they eat all the time too.

Yes, there IS a connection. The connection, thought, is with reactive hypoglycemia.

This is discussed by Dr. Webb in  A Parent's guide to Gifted Children. It is also mentioned in the Dual-Diagnosis and Misdiagnosis of Gifted Kids book.

There is a higher incidence of reactive hypoglycemia reaction in highly gifted children than non-gifted.

OP, what you describe, though, doesn't quite sound like reactive hypoglycemia, though, which isn't about being hungry, but has to do with more those negative reactions/behavior.

The brain is one of the highest users of sugar in one's body. For a child that is processing a ton, they are going to go through their sugar stores far faster. This can cause what looks like a reactive hypoglycemic reaction.  Basically the kids are running out of fuel, because they are using it up so fast.

They basically function well until mid/late-morning, and then become emotionally over-reactive...once they eat, they are fine again.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZyVXGPPj9rgC&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=webb+reactive+hypoglycemia&source=bl&ots=USwQGZ-qbf&sig=mJSoNPmLcF3Lgg7hBFfVj4yPTQs&hl=en&ei=i2ZkTYxIi9-BB_PqqaIC&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFUQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=webb%20reactive%20hypoglycemia&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=NQrtt-peg5AC&pg=PA169&lpg=PA169&dq=webb+reactive+hypoglycemia&source=bl&ots=SfUswRqgUr&sig=R_o6JpEJDaVQcMc2E9FKZfCCRNQ&hl=en&ei=i2ZkTYxIi9-BB_PqqaIC&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=webb%20reactive%20hypoglycemia&f=false

http://www.reactivehypoglycemia.info/articles/reactive-hypoglycemia-in-highly-gifted-children/

Tammy

[whatsnextmom]

It's a "thought." That's fine. I just don't particularly buy it. Most studies on the gifted deal with smaller pools of subjects than a good study should have. If you like the study, go for it.

Originally Posted by quaz 

Yes, there IS a connection. The connection, thought, is with reactive hypoglycemia.

This is discussed by Dr. Webb in  A Parent's guide to Gifted Children. It is also mentioned in the Dual-Diagnosis and Misdiagnosis of Gifted Kids book.

There is a higher incidence of reactive hypoglycemia reaction in highly gifted children than non-gifted.

OP, what you describe, though, doesn't quite sound like reactive hypoglycemia, though, which isn't about being hungry, but has to do with more those negative reactions/behavior.

The brain is one of the highest users of sugar in one's body. For a child that is processing a ton, they are going to go through their sugar stores far faster. This can cause what looks like a reactive hypoglycemic reaction.  Basically the kids are running out of fuel, because they are using it up so fast.

They basically function well until mid/late-morning, and then become emotionally over-reactive...once they eat, they are fine again.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZyVXGPPj9rgC&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=webb+reactive+hypoglycemia&source=bl&ots=USwQGZ-qbf&sig=mJSoNPmLcF3Lgg7hBFfVj4yPTQs&hl=en&ei=i2ZkTYxIi9-BB_PqqaIC&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFUQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=webb%20reactive%20hypoglycemia&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=NQrtt-peg5AC&pg=PA169&lpg=PA169&dq=webb+reactive+hypoglycemia&source=bl&ots=SfUswRqgUr&sig=R_o6JpEJDaVQcMc2E9FKZfCCRNQ&hl=en&ei=i2ZkTYxIi9-BB_PqqaIC&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=webb%20reactive%20hypoglycemia&f=false

http://www.reactivehypoglycemia.info/articles/reactive-hypoglycemia-in-highly-gifted-children/

Tammy

[flightgoddess]

I'm an adult and I feel I need to eat every 2-3 hours! Have set meal times if that works for you, but add some snacks in! AM and PM (and before bed if there is a large gap between dinner and bedtime) I was the same way when I was little, most of my life come to think of it. I remember being ravenous when they swiched lunch periods to a later time slot in high school, ALWAYS had a snack after school, dinner at home, and ALWAYS had a bedtime snack. (If I didn't I'd wake up hungry at 2 am and couldn't sleep until I ate something) If your child's weight/BMI are fine for their age/proportions, then  let them eat healthy snacks.

[crunchy_mommy]

Interesting. I have (diagnosed) reactive hypoglycemia & was considered 'gifted' growing up. DS is showing signs of both giftedness & hypoglycemia. I never thought of the two issues as being related though!

Originally Posted by A-time-to-live 

Can someone post a link to more info on reactive hypoglycemia? I'm wondering if this is what we've been struggling with. DD seems to have issues if she doesn't eat every 1.5-2 hours and everytime she eats a source of protein must be included. For some reason daycare can't seem to get this. The other day they did actually give her most of the food that I sent but when I picked her up they were feeding her pretzels. (They are not supposed to give her any food other than what I send.) I occasionally give her pretzels but they are always no salt 100% whole grain. She ended up melting down similar to the way she would if not given protein with a meal - even though she had also eaten the snack I provided. I've been wondering if the refined pretzels with salt could have contributed. Any thoughts?

I know - totally not a gifted story/question - sorry. It just seemed to fit the thread maybe?

Refined carbs definitely affect blood sugar, I cannot eat any white bread, white rice, white sugar, etc. I think salt can have some affect as well (probably less pronounced?) but I haven't researched it thoroughly because I hate salt anyway lol.

You can google for a quick description (sorry, I don't have a great link handy!) but the 'treatment' is basically frequent, balanced mini-meals -- eat every 2-3 hours, make sure each meal includes protein & fiber, avoid caffeine & alcohol, limit sugar, and avoid having very large meals. Obviously these things are pretty healthy ideas anyway so it really can't hurt to follow them in absence of an 'official' diagnosis. The only time I've found a diagnosed note to be helpful is settings where you normally can't eat (so I had to get special permission to eat during SATs, or during class in high school, which absurdly involved missing part of class to eat in the nurse's office since you can't eat in the classrooms )

[loraxc]

I don't know if it's hypoglycemia or just normal kid stuff, but certainly we notice that DD can be highly irrational when hungry. She also eats an ENORMOUS amount--more than me, many days-- despite being very normal for weight (40th % or so). "But I'm still hungry" is a constant refrain in our house. Yet she has been 50 pounds for at least 6 months now despite eating us out of house and home.

DS is quite different and rarely seems really hungry; we actually have to remind him to eat. His mood seems less related to food. He is pretty thin.

[quaz]

deleted

Edited by quaz - 5/25/11 at 10:38am

[moominmamma]

I certainly haven't seen a connection in my own family. My four kids are if anything the opposite. They can go hours and hours without eating and show no real evidence of difficulty. My eldest did the "Thirty-Hour Famine" as a fund-raiser for world hunger a few years ago and to this day thinks it's a totally lame challenge, doesn't understand why everyone thought it was such a big deal. "You get hungry, so what? After a while you get used to the feeling."

Miranda

[spedteacher30]

I have reactive hypoglycemia--it is better as I am older. Or, maybe, I am less emotionally reactive to the blood sugar fluctuations. My son definitely has the symptoms of it as well, though he is not old enough to articulate the feelings or the physical sensations. I have no idea if it is linked to giftedness in the general population--it definitely is within our family.

[Greenmama2]

Originally Posted by Tigerle 

I am not sure that I know - what I think of as reactive hypoglycemia looks different in our house. DS doens not notice that he gets hungry if it's time for a meal or snack - he suddenly goes into meltdowns or tantrums, the way waturmama describes, and needs to be coaxed into eating to get back to normal. I think it is not necessarily about the absolute amount fuel these kids need, but how quickly their blood sugar drops as soon as they have burnt through it and how they react (ie with behavioral symptoms as opposed to just realizing "oh, I'm hungry". I still have problems with that one, although I am a functional adult. DH sometimes says "listen I am not even going to talk to you until you've had a bite to eat!"). DS is very thin (probably because he'd rather talk through a meal than eat) but with regular protein-rich meals and snacks he does fine. if you feel that your daughter needs abnormal amounts of food at abnormal times, I would ask a ped about that.

This. It's a rare day that DD actually says she's hungry, far more frequently she just suddenly becomes really fragile and we realise it's been a few hours since she ate any protein.

[ellemenope]

Originally Posted by Greenmama2 

Originally Posted by Tigerle 

I am not sure that I know - what I think of as reactive hypoglycemia looks different in our house. DS doens not notice that he gets hungry if it's time for a meal or snack - he suddenly goes into meltdowns or tantrums, the way waturmama describes, and needs to be coaxed into eating to get back to normal. I think it is not necessarily about the absolute amount fuel these kids need, but how quickly their blood sugar drops as soon as they have burnt through it and how they react (ie with behavioral symptoms as opposed to just realizing "oh, I'm hungry". I still have problems with that one, although I am a functional adult. DH sometimes says "listen I am not even going to talk to you until you've had a bite to eat!"). DS is very thin (probably because he'd rather talk through a meal than eat) but with regular protein-rich meals and snacks he does fine. if you feel that your daughter needs abnormal amounts of food at abnormal times, I would ask a ped about that.

This. It's a rare day that DD actually says she's hungry, far more frequently she just suddenly becomes really fragile and we realise it's been a few hours since she ate any protein.

Yeah,  DD is 2.5 and has never, not once, told me that she was hungry.   She eats like a bird, and I have on occasion just forgotten to feed her for long stretches of time, and she is never affected.  I have yet to notice behavioral symptoms of hunger, and I consider myself a pretty perceptive person especially when it comes to DD.  I just haven't seen it yet, although I still try to be proactive about keeping her fed, obviously, even if it is like pulling teeth to get her to eat sometimes.