Quieting the Mind

[VisionaryMom]

I've always had trouble with quieting my mind enough to sleep. Even now, it's something that I work really hard to do. DS has talked about his mind "thinking about a lot" since he was 2 or so. DD has just picked up reading, and she's really moving forward rapidly. Now she's talking about the how she can't get "her head to turn off." How do you talk through this problem? Any tips or tricks?

[whatsnextmom]

I've had this problem all my life. I read a tip in a magazine on an airplane of all places lol. It said that if you go to ben and are still awake and tossing/turning/mind racing after 15 minutes, to get up, do something and try again in 20 to 30 minutes. This actually works for me. It may mean I go to bed at midnight instead of my goal of 11 but it also means I'll be asleep by 12:05 instead of staring at the ceiling until 4am. Somehow, reading a book, watching some TV, folding laundry pulls my mind out of the escalating spiral. My brain needs to be distracted or it will just keep hurtling down a thought path.

I don't know that this would work for your child but it's something I do and it made a hug difference. My own kids crash the second their heads hit the pillow. I'm totally envious of that... they get it from my DH!

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom 

I've always had trouble with quieting my mind enough to sleep. Even now, it's something that I work really hard to do. DS has talked about his mind "thinking about a lot" since he was 2 or so. DD has just picked up reading, and she's really moving forward rapidly. Now she's talking about the how she can't get "her head to turn off." How do you talk through this problem? Any tips or tricks?

[kanga2roo]

My son is the same way. He's now 8 and can fall asleep much more quickly. It is super important for our ds to be ready for bed ( teeth, shower, etc) before he is too tired- otherwise he gets his second wind and gets revved up. We start our routine very early so we don't have to hurry the process along and can instead be calm with plenty of time. A good, long bedtime story- carefully chosen- helps too. This means nothing upsetting or remotely related to anything upsetting. Even at 2, ds would be bothered by typical fairy tales as he analyzed the content and personalized or generalized the topics. Some of our happy favorites were the Bear Snores On series, books by Don/Audrey Wood, I Love You Stinky Face and such. Reassuring themes with mama love throughout. Teaching him to physically relax in bed- we do big stretches while laying down, then relax- 3or 4 times- putting on a sound machine ( rain) also is crucial as he would hear every teensy noise and wonder/wake....Our rule is after the story you find a comfortable position then lay still listening to the rain. We also use a Twilight Turtle which shines stars on the ceiling for about 40 minutes, and he used to try to fall asleep before the lights went out. I do NOT let him read before bed, as this definitely seemed to encourage his little brain to keep going. He needs to be still and quiet to hear a story.

[The artist]

We've found that dressing DS, 4, a little on the cool side helps. Other things that seem to make a positive difference are a big snack right before teeth brushing, and soft classical music. He goes to bed around 9, and now goes to sleep anywhere from 10 to 11. This is about an hour improvement from last year, one night I put him in bed at 9 and he was still awake at 1:30 am. It seems harder in the winter time when we can't get outside as much, of course.

[RiverTam]

DS2 (age 6) has problems getting to sleep. He can be exhausted to the point of insanity, and still has trouble laying down and being still enough to go to sleep. It's always "Just one more thing, Mom..." I used to tell people that the only way to get him to sleep was to hold him down.

We developed a routine with soft, relaxing music and a special blanket for him. He loves music, and will sit still to listen to it. We use that to get him to sleep. He gets a snack, then we put on the music and he covers up with his special blanket to listen to it. It keeps him still long enough to fall asleep.

The blanket is one of those really soft, fuzzy microplush blankets from Target.

[crunchy_mommy]

DS (2yo) and I both have this problem. What seems to help us is not so much "quieting the mind" but "focusing the mind" -- the things that work best are praying; listening to something -- music, story, audiobook, even TV for me; progressive relaxation (I do this with DS as well... a simple version, "Let your toes fall asleep... now let your knees fall asleep..."); exercise (obviously only if the goal is not falling asleep!) Also, just having an hour or so to talk about everything we're thinking about is great... once we 'get it all out' we're more open to resting & relaxing.

[physmom]

Another mother/child pair here that has struggled with this.  Although I'm practically cured now because I'm so sleep deprived .  With DD she needs to talk A LOT before she goes to sleep.  We talk about her day, her friends, pray, and also tell stories.  They're not really fancy stories but mostly we talk about stuff that she's interested in.  For instance, she's decided she wants to be a doctor when she grows up so her current favorite story is when her stuffed animal broke his leg and had to get an X-ray and then a cast on his leg to fix it.  We still have a good tantrum whenever I shut off the light (speaking of which black out curtains and background noise are VERY important for DD too) but the tantrums are getting to be less.  Night time is certainly NOT trouble free for us since bedtime still takes a looooonnng while and she's been having a lot of nightmares at night too.

[Geofizz]

It's called "mind race" in our house. 

Bedtime is rigidly ritualized.  We don't deviate from this, particularly the time we start.  I'm evidently some sorta dragon mom according to my friends because my kids are into bed on time (within 5 minutes each time) *every night*, year round.

DD (8 years) has been doing yoga almost daily after she's done reading and before bed.  We took this up on the suggestion of an OT to help her get her mind and body more in sych.  It's helped across a lot of issues, and falling asleep is one of them.

We address what's on our minds - for me that sometimes means getting up in the middle of the night and working some.  For DD, she has a diary she keeps near her bed to doodle or write in, putting the thoughts on a page, and letting the page keep the ideas safe for morning.  DH and I promise these are totally private, and we wouldn't peek just like we wouldn't read her mind.  We keep serious discussions at a minimum after dinner, which is tough to do because that sometimes seems like our "golden hour" to talk about tough behavioral issues that need parent/child problem solving approaches.

We have nearly free permission in the house for "change of venue."  DH and I particularly will occasionally move to the couch, the guest bed, or somewhere else.  It seems to help.  DD and DS have sleeping bags in their rooms, and I find both end up in them occasionally, particularly when mind race is most intense.

[Storm Bride]

I've had reasonable success with old standbys, such as counting sheep (or anything else) or listing all the US states in alphabetical order.

But, a friend recently suggested something else that seems to work well. I've only been trying it for a few weeks, and my success has been uneven, due to being kept awake by other factors (a migraine, a head cold, and a bedsharing toddler who likes to nurse all night and/or kick). It does seem effective, though. Basically, when you're ready to go to bed - completely ready, with brushed teeth, clothes off/changed, etc. - you start deliberately thinking of really absurd stuff. She mentioned imagining herself bouncing up and down on a field of lettuces and tomatoes that were soft and bouncy. I've done climbing a cliff using a rope of bananas, to enter a house made from a pumpkin, miniature hot-air balloons with small animals (squirrels, mice, chipmunks, etc.) riding in them and throwing nuts and fruit to people, and a bunch of other weird stuff. What my friend said is that this kind of visualization kind of kick-starts the brain into something resembling a dream state, and disconnects the person from day-to-day thoughts, concerns, etc. I don't know if that's really how it works, but it does seem to work...better than the counting and repetition, or the warm milk, or the warm baths, or the gentle yoga in the evenings, or any of the other things I've tried over the years.

[HeatherB]

Moving to Nighttime Parenting for more input.

[quaz]

This seems like a topic that probably should have been kept where it was. There has not been a single response since it was moved.

In addition the topic was quite appropriate for a gifted board.

Not being able to quiet one's mind falls under gifted and psychomotor overexcitabilities.

My oldest daughter HIGHLY struggled with this, and also exhibited many other signs of psychomotor overexcitabilities (and other OE's)

I was also gifted, and had many issues quieting my mind at night.

I have yet to have found a full proof technique, but I know that mental stimulation before bedtime (not stories where one mind can wander and explore thoughts), but mental stimulation has helped a number of gifted kids (and adults) over the years.

Tammy

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

But, a friend recently suggested something else that seems to work well. I've only been trying it for a few weeks, and my success has been uneven, due to being kept awake by other factors (a migraine, a head cold, and a bedsharing toddler who likes to nurse all night and/or kick). It does seem effective, though. Basically, when you're ready to go to bed - completely ready, with brushed teeth, clothes off/changed, etc. - you start deliberately thinking of really absurd stuff. She mentioned imagining herself bouncing up and down on a field of lettuces and tomatoes that were soft and bouncy. I've done climbing a cliff using a rope of bananas, to enter a house made from a pumpkin, miniature hot-air balloons with small animals (squirrels, mice, chipmunks, etc.) riding in them and throwing nuts and fruit to people, and a bunch of other weird stuff. What my friend said is that this kind of visualization kind of kick-starts the brain into something resembling a dream state, and disconnects the person from day-to-day thoughts, concerns, etc. I don't know if that's really how it works, but it does seem to work...better than the counting and repetition, or the warm milk, or the warm baths, or the gentle yoga in the evenings, or any of the other things I've tried over the years.

Thank you for this suggestion! I tried it tonight for a variant of this problem: yesterday DS did not just have trouble quietening his mind but specifically could not get a youtube video about zeppelins out of his head - DH hadn't noticed in time that the movie was moving from new helium technology into history and DS had seen the Lakehurst accident before he managed to turn it off.  DS went into meltdown thrree times, but I managed to calm him everytime with silly stories about kittens playing dress up.

 I read a tip in a magazine on an airplane of all places lol. It said that if you go to ben and are still awake and tossing/turning/mind racing after 15 minutes, to get up, do something and try again in 20 to 30 minutes.

 YK, I wasn't aware that it's supposed to be *normal* to fall asleep within 15 minutes! DH does it easily but insists he cannot sleep if i keep my light on to read (well now that there are two kids in the room who might be disturbed it isn't really an option anyway) nor can he sleep if I keep on getting up and going to bed again, or even stay up doing my thing because sound travels so easily in our historic house. However, i am the kind of person who might lie awake unitl 2am if I force myself to lie down at 11pm and realize I can't sleep...we haven't found a solution to that one yet.

[kathymuggle]

Subbing....

I just went to the gifted board to post a very similar thread.  My 12 year old is having difficulty falling asleep, and I am looking for suggestions in this area.

Incidentally, my 12 year old has been going through a difficult period - and (aside from hormone and interpersonal issues) this may be a clue to why she is so irritable.

Kathy

Edited by kathymuggle - 2/20/11 at 4:00pm

[ellemenope]

I am not sure if it is a matter of not being able to "quiet the mind" because my DD is only 2, but she is the worst at falling asleep.  I can say that she definitely fights sleep.  I am really at a loss with her.  I have never seen her get tired.  She has never just fallen asleep on her own.  She never fell asleep eating.  She has not fallen asleep in the car since about 18 months.  I promise you I run her ragged during the day.  Naps, no naps, it doesn't matter.  It has always taken at least 45 minutes to get her to fall asleep.  And, it is 45 minutes of fight.

Now once she falls asleep I could do anything I wanted with her.  I could wake her up, ask her for my mom's birthday, she would answer, and go right back to sleep.  In fact, I take her to the bathroom sometimes when I go to sleep because it is her bladder that wakes her up in the morning, and she fully awakes and walks right back to her bed, no problem.  She has slept through the night since she was about three months old.

Recently, I have been able to leave her in bed alone with an audio book, and I am just so disheartened that it is now taking at least an hour for her to fall asleep by herself.  I really thought that it might get easier if I was not in there as a distraction.   The last few months have been particularly hellish because she had this tactic she used where she kept telling me how much she loved me and that she just had to hug me.  Over and over...  And, I was losing it because if she wasn't doing that, she was lying there on her back with one foot on her bent knee twiddling her fingers, eyes wide open.  I could hear her brain humming along.   So, unfortunately I was getting really frustrated with her and having less and less power keeping that frustration to myself.   

I really think there is something wrong with her. I am worried that she does not get enough sleep.  She goes to bed at 8:00, but does not fall asleep until after 9:00, and then wakes up no later than 8:00.  She has not napped in a little over a month. It seems to be getting worse as she gets older.  Yes, it has definitely gotten worse.

[Wendlynnn]

To quiet my mind and help me go to sleep quickly, I like to listen to guided imagery on my ipod. My current fave is by Belleruth Naparstek, the CD is Relaxation & Wellness.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by ellemenope 

I really think there is something wrong with her. I am worried that she does not get enough sleep.  She goes to bed at 8:00, but does not fall asleep until after 9:00, and then wakes up no later than 8:00.  She has not napped in a little over a month. It seems to be getting worse as she gets older.  Yes, it has definitely gotten worse.

DS was fairly easy to put to sleep at the age of one, then got MUCH worse at the age of two. The foremost reason was that I started going back to work full time and had a long commute, so I got up in the mornings before DS woke up. We had two hours of fight! And a lot of that was actual fighting - ie DS yanking my hair, hitting, or headbutting me. I twas hell. I was so exhausted I went down with norovirus for two weeks then cut my hours and went inot work later so I could wake up DS at 6.30 in the morning for a bottle and a cuddle. That was it - he went back to his normal 45 minutes or so. He also dropped his nap shortly after two - I fought him for it for a while, then gave up when he was 2.5. (They made him "rest", ie lie down and shut up, at daycare, but even there he would not sleep after that. At that time, he did not sleep more than your DD.

He napped occasionally in the car after that, but gave up before three, and also napped when very exhausted due to a high fever.

We definitely see thing getting worse (up to two hours, fights) with more stress, then go back to 45 minutes or so (chat and play, fiddling) as we manage to reduce the stress.

DS is currently being evaluated for Asperger's - I am on the fence about that (I don't think I am in denial, there is stuff that fits and stuff that doesn't fit at all). As far as I know bedtime troubles are an ASD symptom, so if he ends up diagnosed I'll chalk it up to ASD, If he doesn't, I'll chalk it up to giftedness ie "our" normal. I'll keep you all posted!

[ellemenope]

I don't want to derail this thread other than to say THANK YOU for sharing so much of your journey with us.  There are definitely some similarities between our kids.  And, that It does seem that as the toddler in my DD melts away there might remain some lingering quirks we are going to have to deal with.  Well, not only quirks, but some behavioral issues stemming from them.  DD has been the most well-behaved child I have ever met.  She has just been so conscientious.  Yet, I think I see some behavioral problems on the horizon, particularly in regards to how she reacts to a stressful situation.  I hope I am wrong.  I, much like you, also see many of the quirks DD has as spectrumy and then scoff at a possible diagnosis when I think of how much she does not fit the mold.  But, at four...who knows where she will be.  So much more might come to the surface between now and then.  Until then, you pave the way.  Thank you.

 

Originally Posted by Tigerle 

DS was fairly easy to put to sleep at the age of one, then got MUCH worse at the age of two. The foremost reason was that I started going back to work full time and had a long commute, so I got up in the mornings before DS woke up. We had two hours of fight! And a lot of that was actual fighting - ie DS yanking my hair, hitting, or headbutting me. I twas hell. I was so exhausted I went down with norovirus for two weeks then cut my hours and went inot work later so I could wake up DS at 6.30 in the morning for a bottle and a cuddle. That was it - he went back to his normal 45 minutes or so. He also dropped his nap shortly after two - I fought him for it for a while, then gave up when he was 2.5. (They made him "rest", ie lie down and shut up, at daycare, but even there he would not sleep after that. At that time, he did not sleep more than your DD.

He napped occasionally in the car after that, but gave up before three, and also napped when very exhausted due to a high fever.

We definitely see thing getting worse (up to two hours, fights) with more stress, then go back to 45 minutes or so (chat and play, fiddling) as we manage to reduce the stress.

DS is currently being evaluated for Asperger's - I am on the fence about that (I don't think I am in denial, there is stuff that fits and stuff that doesn't fit at all). As far as I know bedtime troubles are an ASD symptom, so if he ends up diagnosed I'll chalk it up to ASD, If he doesn't, I'll chalk it up to giftedness ie "our" normal. I'll keep you all posted!

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy 

DS (2yo) and I both have this problem. What seems to help us is not so much "quieting the mind" but "focusing the mind" --

I agree.  I have taught myself some tricks to do this.  One is, have a focused, pleasant thought to follow, such as, "How would I spend $1M?" or "Design my dream house."  Knocks me out every time.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by Geofizz 

Bedtime is rigidly ritualized.  We don't deviate from this, particularly the time we start.  I'm evidently some sorta dragon mom according to my friends because my kids are into bed on time (within 5 minutes each time) *every night*, year round.

Oy, I wish we could get to this point. Neither DH nor I are that structured, and it's been a struggle with DS (who much prefers struggle).

I've tried nighttime meditation, which works okay sometimes. I may have them do yoga at night to try to calm down. 

I'm afraid that if I let DS write what's on his mind that he'd never get to sleep. That's how I am. I've stayed up all night without any sleep before because of my mind racing, and I think DS would react the same.
 

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by Geofizz 

It's called "mind race" in our house. 

Bedtime is rigidly ritualized.  We don't deviate from this, particularly the time we start.  I'm evidently some sorta dragon mom according to my friends because my kids are into bed on time (within 5 minutes each time) *every night*, year round.

DD (8 years) has been doing yoga almost daily after she's done reading and before bed.  We took this up on the suggestion of an OT to help her get her mind and body more in sych.  It's helped across a lot of issues, and falling asleep is one of them. 

Yes, the ritualizing has helped us a lot, too. I really recommend it - it did use to annoy me but we do reap the benefits. It starts with supper - we haven't quite managed to always start supper at the same time, but once started, things keep on rolling according to a really tight script that does not let up until lights out. We do deviate for, um, Christmas eve, and a couple other occasions that i can't quite remember. For about an hour, that's it. I remember a wedding last year where all the other kids were up playing and participating in some kids' entertainment until 11 pm, but DS started running around in manic circles by 8.30 or so...it felt weird to be the only parents moving in and carrying him away, but you just have to know what your kids need...

The yoga suggestion is interesting. I'll make a note if it - DS is too young I think. He really loves a backrub, or I should say a deep tissue massage, again according to a tight ritualized order. "Now walk up my spine with your fingers. Okay, now knead my back. No , above the arms now. now the underarms.."