I can't win - visitation offers. (Update #19)

[MariesMama]

So ex hasn't seen DD in two years.  Whatever.  He moved wayyy out of state, allegedly to be closer to where I plan on moving. 

I'm taking a two week vacation to the city where I plan on moving to, in March.  I informed him of this, and asked if he'd like to come there to visit DD when I'm there.  He says no, I can come to him, and said that he offered to fly me out to his city and I refused.  That never happened, but that's neither here nor there, right?    I asked him what he'd like to do for visitation when I move this summer.  No response yet.

My question is, how flexible do I really have to be?  The location he moved to is "8 hours 22 minutes" (according to Google) from the city I'm moving to and vacationing in.

[Super~Single~Mama]

I would say reasonably flexible.  If he was going to come for 3 days to spend with your dd, then I would say no overnights, but at least either morning or afternoon every day (supervised of course - he hasn't seen her in 2 years!) that he is there.  To make you go 8hours away is ridiculous.  If you wanted to vacation in his city, you would.

You can ask him if he is now offering to fly you and your dd out to his town, and willing to put you up in a hotel, and if he works with the dates you have available thats great.

[StephandOwen]

Is there a court order?

He hasn't seen your dd in 2 years and your dd just turned 3 (or is turning 3 soon), right? If there is no court order in place then I would let him know when you were visiting in March and how to contact you. When you move I would let him know and, again, how to contact you. Then the ball is in his court.

IF he contacts you asking to see your dd then you can be a little flexible. Offer to meet him halfway or offer to go the full distance to his city IF he pays for flight and hotel (or rental car, gas and hotel).  But I wouldn't bend over backwards for this guy. He needs to prove that he actually wants to see her.

[Mummoth]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen 

Is there a court order?

He hasn't seen your dd in 2 years and your dd just turned 3 (or is turning 3 soon), right? If there is no court order in place then I would let him know when you were visiting in March and how to contact you. When you move I would let him know and, again, how to contact you. Then the ball is in his court.

IF he contacts you asking to see your dd then you can be a little flexible. Offer to meet him halfway or offer to go the full distance to his city IF he pays for flight and hotel (or rental car, gas and hotel).  But I wouldn't bend over backwards for this guy. He needs to prove that he actually wants to see her.

I agree with this. Does he have any contact with her at all now? Phone, email, mail? I wouldn't necessarily suggest phone contact (it's too easy, and you can't edit/skip anything inappropriate he may say.... like "See you soon" when there isn't a plan for him to see her, etc) If you'd feel comfortable reading an email from him to her, maybe mention that he's welcome to do so. I wouldn't go to him, at least not the first time. She'll be more comfortable meeting him in familiar surroundings... somewhere like a park that you guys go to a lot.

[ell]

If there's no order, I wouldn't be flexible whatsoever. If he was an hour or two away sure, but 8 hours? No way.  He can come to you.

However, keep a record of *everything* just in case he decides to take it to court down the road.

[MariesMama]

We have no court order.

The only time he speaks on the phone with DD is when she goes to visit his mother, so it's extremely infrequent.  He won't call me on the phone, for whatever reason.  I've always told him that he's welcome to call her. 

Ex didn't really offer to fly us out there.  I have no record of him saying that, and all I have are texts right now.   He did offer a hotel room, as he works in a hotel.  I think he's attempting to gaslight me, but he's realllllly bad at it. 

The ball is totally in his court right now ... we'll see what happens.

[Kwan*Yin]

So why are you trying to facilitate any relationship? He hasn't called his daughter or visited in two years so that clearly shows his level of interest. Move and mail him your new address and phone number and tell him that he knows how to reach you if he is interested in visiting. Otherwise I would not give this situation one more ounce of energy.

[MariesMama]

He started texting me again a couple of weeks ago.  Before that I was just going along as if he didn't exist.

[lilyka]

He knows where to find you.  You offered.  That sounds good enough to me.

[AttunedMama]

Y'all can check me if I'm way in the wrong, but I can't help but want to suggest to OP to get a new phone and OFFICIALLY ignore him. She's not court-ordered to keep in touch at this point, so there can't be any repercussions, can there? 

[sapphire_chan]

Since your dd does visit his mom, how about letting his mom tell him when a visit is planned? (And ask also that she tell you if he says he'll try to get there too.)

This move does seem like a good chance to change your phone number.

[Goodmom2008]

Originally Posted by AttunedMama 

Y'all can check me if I'm way in the wrong, but I can't help but want to suggest to OP to get a new phone and OFFICIALLY ignore him. She's not court-ordered to keep in touch at this point, so there can't be any repercussions, can there? 

Yes, there could be.  He could claim that he attempted to contact her to see the child but she got rid of the only number he had and never contacted him to give him the new contact number.

It's an argument that just may hurt her in court should they ever fight over custody/parenting time issues.  Just because there is no court order doesn't mean that she has the right to stop all contact (I'm talking about reasonable contact here) with the child.  What she isn't obligated to do is to try and get him to actually see the child.  In fact, everything she has done will look good for her if he claims that she is the reason why he isn't seeing the child. 
 

[sapphire_chan]

Question, if the OP maintains contact with her ex's mother, and the mother doesn't change her phone number, and it's the only place that the ex has tried to have contact with his dd, and the mother was willing to pass on any attempts at communicating, would that be a reasonable amount of contact?

I mean, it'd be enough contact that if he actually wanted to arrange a visit it could be done*, but not so much contact that he would get to play now-I'm-here, now-I'm-not whenever he had the whim.

*For instance, xmil could let the OP know that ex wants to set up a visit, OP could buy a prepaid phone and call from that to do any planning.

[MariesMama]

His mom doesn't see DD enough for it to be a "reasonable" amount of contact.  Ex is also several states away from here and has not been back since he moved, so he's not going to be springing a surprise visit anytime soon.  I do think that, if we were to go to court, he would try to claim that my refusals to let DD see his mom were in fact denying him contact.  It wouldn't work, but that's what he would claim.

He never got back with me today about visitation and/or visiting in March.  I'm going to keep the same number, and will update him when I move, but that's it.  Bleargh.

[Goodmom2008]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan 

Question, if the OP maintains contact with her ex's mother, and the mother doesn't change her phone number, and it's the only place that the ex has tried to have contact with his dd, and the mother was willing to pass on any attempts at communicating, would that be a reasonable amount of contact?

I mean, it'd be enough contact that if he actually wanted to arrange a visit it could be done*, but not so much contact that he would get to play now-I'm-here, now-I'm-not whenever he had the whim.

*For instance, xmil could let the OP know that ex wants to set up a visit, OP could buy a prepaid phone and call from that to do any planning.

The father needs to be able to contact the mother directly, barring a restraining order.  He has the right to have phone contact with his child.  And he can't do that if he doesn't have the phone number.  Going through a third party, in the abscence of a restraining order (and based on the original post, there are no grounds for this at all), really shows that one is unable to co-parent.  And that does not look good in court. 

What does look good is letting the other parent know that you will be in their area (especially if they are a long-distance parent) and asking them when they would like to see the child.  Not only does it make the court realize that the reason the father was not seeing the child was through the father's actions and not because he couldn't contact the mother.  One other benefit is that the mother will be able to look the child in the eye and say that she did the best she could to facilitate a relationship between child and father should the child ever ask about why the father didn't have much to do with her when the child is grown. 

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Goodmom2008 

The father needs to be able to contact the mother directly, barring a restraining order.  He has the right to have phone contact with his child.  And he can't do that if he doesn't have the phone number.

Gotcha. The reason I was asking was because the father only ever had phone contact with the child via  the grandmother's phone. Even though he had the mother's phone number.

But it isn't about what use he makes of the phone number, it's about being able to show that he had opportunities to contact and didn't.

[LoveOhm]

Originally Posted by Kwan*Yin 

So why are you trying to facilitate any relationship? He hasn't called his daughter or visited in two years so that clearly shows his level of interest. Move and mail him your new address and phone number and tell him that he knows how to reach you if he is interested in visiting. Otherwise I would not give this situation one more ounce of energy.

I also want to chime in about the phone contact..... I do not feel the OP is obligated to provide a phone number to a parent who is not involved and has not been involved or had contact for 2 years.  What I would do is ensure that that parent has a current address where they can serve the OP *IF* he decides to establish visitation thru the courts.  The child is 3 or close to 3 and there is no history of the OP's phone being used for contact between the child and the father, I think a valid mailing address for the child is more than fine.

I would check with the OP's local court but based on what she has presented she has right to terminate the father's rights so the fact that she is not and that she is willing to allow a relationship between the child and the father's mother show she is not trying to push him out of the child's life.

[MariesMama]

I did want to add that he has called my phone and DD and spoken with her ... three times.

Wow.  I was quickly logging on correct everybody, but as I typed that out, it doesn't sound a whole lot better than never at all.

He never called/texted/emailed after I told him to let me know about visitation.  What will probably happen next, is around Easter, his mom will call me to ask if she can give DD her Easter basket.  If I don't call her back asap, ex will text me to call me names and how I won't let DD get to know her family.  Rinse, repeat at the next holiday.

[MariesMama]

Ex is coming to visit DD on our vacation.  Crap.  While this probably won't end up happening, what can I do to prepare her for this?  Also, what's a tactful way of saying, "there's no way in hell you're taking her out of my sight."

[Kwan*Yin]

I'm not sure with your daughter's age and the inconsistency of this man who has not been involved with her that I would necessarily introduce him as her father. That title belongs to a man who is there supporting and loving his child, not a man who has seen his kid a few times her whole life and has done nothing to be involved on a more consistent basis. I would make him prove himself before I started letting the child know that it is her father. I would hate for the child to get attached and then be abandoned all over again. Definitley no way that he should be allowed to leave your sight! That would be scary. Really you will have to play this by ear because your not positive he will show and what if this is the last time he sees her for another few years? No sense in building it up to your daughter that daddy is coming to visit. That's just my viewpoint as a kid who grew up with a pretty inconsistent father and it still hurts me to this day.