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Sex in the family bed. - Page 6

post #101 of 129


Quote:

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post



 

Orgasmic birth is fine, but I happen to think that having sex while nursing is highly inappropriate, and would be IMPOSSIBLE to explain to CPS.

 

Yes, sex is a normal part of life.  It's also a very intimate part of life that does not need to be public, or involve our children.  And yes, I do believe that having sex while nursing (with a baby literally attached to your boob) is involving an infant in your sex life in an inappropriate way.  I find it very disturbing that people actually DO this, and then admit to it.
 

post #102 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post





I'm not religious.  And my parents were affectionate towards each other around me and my brothers growing up - I don't think all marital affection should be hidden.  I do think though, that sex is an intimate act between 2 consenting adults, with a reasonable amount of privacy.  If baby is in a crib on the other side of the room, fine.  Baby being in bed (or attached to mama nursing) thats not OK with me.

You are entitled to your opinion although I have to wonder why you are so interested in this conversation if you are so adamantly opposed to what most of us are describing and discussing here. You have stated how very opposed you are to it multiple times, I respect your opinion that you personally are not comfortable with that for YOURSELF. However, I am not interested in judging what the other mamas here are comfortable doing because I know that they aren't going to harm their child in some way just to enjoy any sexual intimacy with their spouses. What you think is harmful to babies/toddlers is just your opinion, it's not a fact. You don't know that those kids are being harmed! 

 

Edited to add that I would actually really like to hear from a mama who is disturbed by having sex next to your LO what harm exactly you think is being caused. What is actually happening to the LO that is negative? The noise? The motion? That they might somehow realize you are having sex even though we can all agree a toddler has no idea what sex is? Obviously this really has nothing to do with a child, but babies and toddlers yes. 
 

post #103 of 129

I absolutely respect everyone's right to keep their sex life to circumstances that make them comfortable, with respect to a child being in the room/not in the room, in the bed/not in the bed, nursing/not nursing. There's a big difference between "I'm not comfortable having sex with a baby in the bed" and unspecified assertions that people who break our own boundaries, whichever they may be, are somehow behaving in a damaging fashion.

 

Can anyone show me any evidence that having sex with a baby in the room is damaging to the baby?

Can anyone show me any evidence that having sex with a baby in the bed is damaging to the baby?

Can anyone show me any evidence that having sex with a baby at the breast is damaging to the baby?

 

My own sexual comfort zones are my busines. I talk about them to some degree, but not in all detail. But, I don't expect anybody else to adhere to my comfort level in their sex lives. I can't imagine why anybody would.

post #104 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by slylives View Post


Quote:


I could not agree more. Quite nauseating.
 

Bummer... It feels like this conversation is quickly slipping into judgement and disrespect. It makes ne sad that we can't talk about this without one's practices being called sickening. (remember those "I" statements, or IME?! Aka speaking for one's own self?) or maybe the mods have something to help bring it back on track...?

If we recall, the OP was asking for ideas about how moms balance sexuality, cosleeping and motherhood, not to have those ideas be judged or accused to be child abuse.

I appreciate those who have respectfully and honestly shared their experiences. You've definitely helped me feel more normal and comfortable. Sadly, I'm unsubscribing now because I don't see how much more productive it will be hearing how gross we are for choosing to do things differently from you.

Best of luck, OP and rock on all you fierce loving, multi-tasking mamas!
post #105 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldavis24 View Post


That they might somehow realize you are having sex even though we can all agree a toddler has no idea what sex is?

 

A toddler who has never seen people having sex has no idea what sex is.  A toddler who has witnessed people having sex may wonder about it, may act it out, may describe it to other people (triggering sexual abuse speculation), and may have lifelong memories of it.  I would be very concerned about this happening.  

post #106 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by no5no5 View Post



 

A toddler who has never seen people having sex has no idea what sex is.  A toddler who has witnessed people having sex may wonder about it, may act it out, may describe it to other people (triggering sexual abuse speculation), and may have lifelong memories of it.  I would be very concerned about this happening.  


I can understand being concerned about people speculating that said toddler has been sexually abused. What's the issue with the rest of it? I'm quite sure that, throughout human history, thousands, if not millions, of toddlers have witnessed adults having sex. (That said, I know of at least three young children - one toddler and two preschoolers - who walked in on mom and dad and got an eyeful. As far as I'm able to tell, many years later, none of those children remember it at all. It was a big deal to their parents, but it wasn't a big deal to them at all.)

post #107 of 129

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

I can understand being concerned about people speculating that said toddler has been sexually abused. What's the issue with the rest of it? I'm quite sure that, throughout human history, thousands, if not millions, of toddlers have witnessed adults having sex. (That said, I know of at least three young children - one toddler and two preschoolers - who walked in on mom and dad and got an eyeful. As far as I'm able to tell, many years later, none of those children remember it at all. It was a big deal to their parents, but it wasn't a big deal to them at all.


Okay, well, a toddler may wonder but not be able to articulate his or her curiosity and may develop a profound misunderstanding, which could last for years if not a lifetime.  A preschooler probably would be able to ask questions and understand the answers, which would make that somewhat less of an issue IMO.  For a toddler, acting it out could include some pretty inappropriate behaviors, including behaviors that could hurt or confuse other children.  And yes, probably most children of that age would not remember it, but some would.  My DH has a lot of memories from very early childhood, and while I know from experience that having a memory of one's parents having sex is not always horribly traumatic (when I was a gradeschooler my parents DTD in a hotel room while they thought I was sleeping), that particular memory is one I'd like to avoid imparting.  The biggest deal, of course, is the suspicion of sexual abuse which could result and which, IMO, is enough reason to avoid having sex in front of a toddler. 

 

I also have to say that I think there is a difference between a child walking in on his or her parents, in which case the parents probably address concerns and prevent it from happening again, and a child being in the bed when it happens, in which case the parents may not even realize that their child has witnessed it, and will presumably neither address concerns nor change their behavior.

 

Certainly in many cultures couples sleep in the same room or bed as other family members, and presumably in some of these cultures sex commonly takes place in those communal sleeping areas.  I'm sure that people in those cultures are fine with that and it doesn't create major issues.  But I don't live in one of those cultures, and my child is not being raised in one of those cultures.  In my culture, like it or not, sex is a major issue, and precocious knowledge of sex and can create all sorts of problems.  I don't think it makes sense to take that risk, particularly when we've got lots of other options. 

post #108 of 129

SFCmama, I really am sorry you felt so judged here. I was getting that vibe too.

I cannot believe some of the mamas here are willing to overtly suggest that any one of us here would be willing to harm our child.

God forbid our kids see something and then act it out or we have to actually explain to them what is going on. 

 

Maybe we shouldn't be asking the people who are horrified and nauseated by what we are comfortable or not comfortable with to explain themselves further because frankly all I am seeing is more overt judgements and sideways accusations of permanently damaging your kid. I appreciate the responses of those who aren't thrilled with what has been described here but at this point people are starting to have their feelings seriously hurt at the suggestions being made. 

 

I guess this thread has completely lost sight of what the OP was looking for, I hope she has found some good info and would be shamed into feeling like she is permamently harming her kid if she decides to have sex with her spouse near a sleeping child. It's a tough conversation when people are bringing a lot of their own baggage. I still stand by the fact that I know looking at my kiddo that she hasn't been harmed by me having sex in front of her while she is asleep and no one can tell me just because they find it disgusting or wrong that she has in fact been harmed, I am sitting in front of the proof that she hasn't been. Then again I am not afraid of the abstract fear of her "acting out" something she sees and getting me as a parent in trouble. Kids are sexual enough on their own without seeing anything. I have seen plenty of threads on here about LOs touch their genitals or doing bizarre things and no one is running around saying CPS is going to be called or the parents must have damaged the poor thing. Seriously my DD is going to explore her sexuality without my help and if she happens to wake up and see DH and I being intimate if she does remember it, it could be a great way to start a conversation about sex in general, something I think every parent needs to start with their children at a relatively young age. Then again maybe the same people who are so freaked out by the idea of DTD in front of their kiddos won't ever talk to their kid about sex.

 

I have just about had it with this whole thread, the attitudes here of some of the poster's just don't jive with me and while I respect people's opinions, more than once this conversation has become insulting to us Mamas who aren't afraid of being sexual around a LO who is sleeping.
 

post #109 of 129

For the record I don't think it's wrong to have sex near a sleeping LO. I personally wouldn't but I don't think it's wrong.

 

To me orgasmic birth or nursing a baby while having sex is like involving the child in the act and I do not support that in any way.

 

I do not see that as the same thing whatsoever.

 

I am checking out of here too.

post #110 of 129
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ldavis24 View Post

 

Then again maybe the same people who are so freaked out by the idea of DTD in front of their kiddos won't ever talk to their kid about sex.

 

I have just about had it with this whole thread, the attitudes here of some of the poster's just don't jive with me and while I respect people's opinions, more than once this conversation has become insulting to us Mamas who aren't afraid of being sexual around a LO who is sleeping.
 

 

And I guess you're so offended by what I'm saying that its OK for you to start making offensive statements about me and the other parents who disagree with what you are doing?  B/c I'm pretty sure thats the ONLY reason you could have actually posted that sentence.  I DO think its important for people to TALK to their kids about sex.  I just don't think it needs to be done in front of them.  Yes, kids walk in occasionally - that can be dealt with by talking, and SHOULD be. 

 

I guess my concern with it is, when do you stop?  Where is the line actually drawn?  I can see it becoming a very slippery slope.  Well, she's 3 weeks old - its no different than it was when I was pregnant.  Well, now she's 3 months old - whats the difference now then when she was 3weeks?  Well, now she's 11months old, no difference really now than 3 months.  14months, no different than 11 months and she's sleeping so whats the harm?  Well, now she's 2yo, and asleep, so theres no difference.  And on and on and on.  Where does the line get drawn?  Anywhere in particular?  Whats the difference between having sex and nursing a 3week old at the same time, and nursing a 2yo and having sex at the same time?  IS there an age that the line gets drawn?  IS there an age that a child is too old to be in the same room while you have sex?

post #111 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post



 

And I guess you're so offended by what I'm saying that its OK for you to start making offensive statements about me and the other parents who disagree with what you are doing?  B/c I'm pretty sure thats the ONLY reason you could have actually posted that sentence.  I DO think its important for people to TALK to their kids about sex.  I just don't think it needs to be done in front of them.  Yes, kids walk in occasionally - that can be dealt with by talking, and SHOULD be. 

 

I guess my concern with it is, when do you stop?  Where is the line actually drawn?  I can see it becoming a very slippery slope.  Well, she's 3 weeks old - its no different than it was when I was pregnant.  Well, now she's 3 months old - whats the difference now then when she was 3weeks?  Well, now she's 11months old, no difference really now than 3 months.  14months, no different than 11 months and she's sleeping so whats the harm?  Well, now she's 2yo, and asleep, so theres no difference.  And on and on and on.  Where does the line get drawn?  Anywhere in particular?  Whats the difference between having sex and nursing a 3week old at the same time, and nursing a 2yo and having sex at the same time?  IS there an age that the line gets drawn?  IS there an age that a child is too old to be in the same room while you have sex?

 

We've stopped having sex in the bed with DD (11 months) because I fear that she will wake up and it will ruin the mood. A babe sitting up and looking at you and saying "up,up,up" is just not hot. Its pretty much to guarentee that we wont be disturbed, not because I think its wrong.

 

Personally, Im not 100% positive what I will be comfortable with as she grows, but as long as the she is asleep I probably wouldnt pause at DTD on the floor in our room while shes sleeping in the bed. I think somewhere between 2-3 Ill start to rethink my position on that. I know this is a whole 'nother topic but I personally feel uncomfortable sleeping naked with babes once I stop nursing them. It strikes me that I may have the same feeling about having sex with them in the room too.

 

As for nursing while making love, there are plenty of times where she has woken up (not while we were on the bed. actually, all three times we were in the lv room) and I went and nursed her and then came back. I dont feel comfortable even having DH touch me while Im nursing her back to sleep. He can touch himself all he wants, but since shes awake, I make sure its in seperate rooms.

 

post #112 of 129

I think there's more than one slippery slope.

 

One is... if orgasmic birth is wrong because it "involves" the baby - then is sex in the third tri wrong?  Baby always gets mom's orgasm hormones, I thought.  So is that wrong as well?  How about second tri?  Especially since baby can hear in the womb as well...

 

Second slippery slope - how much marital affection is OK?  Are the parents allowed to be naked around one another if there is an infant present?  Is a father getting into a birthing tub with the mom too open?  Is sleeping naked OK?  Is a hug while sleeping naked OK?  Is a caress on the mom's arm OK?  Is a caress on the breast?  Is a kiss?  How about a more passionate kiss?  Where should the line be drawn as to what activity is or is not OK with a sleeping infant in the same room/bed/whatever?

post #113 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldavis24 View Post

SFCmama, I really am sorry you felt so judged here. I was getting that vibe too.

I cannot believe some of the mamas here are willing to overtly suggest that any one of us here would be willing to harm our child.

God forbid our kids see something and then act it out or we have to actually explain to them what is going on. 

 

Maybe we shouldn't be asking the people who are horrified and nauseated by what we are comfortable or not comfortable with to explain themselves further because frankly all I am seeing is more overt judgements and sideways accusations of permanently damaging your kid. I appreciate the responses of those who aren't thrilled with what has been described here but at this point people are starting to have their feelings seriously hurt at the suggestions being made. 

 

I guess this thread has completely lost sight of what the OP was looking for, I hope she has found some good info and would be shamed into feeling like she is permamently harming her kid if she decides to have sex with her spouse near a sleeping child. It's a tough conversation when people are bringing a lot of their own baggage. I still stand by the fact that I know looking at my kiddo that she hasn't been harmed by me having sex in front of her while she is asleep and no one can tell me just because they find it disgusting or wrong that she has in fact been harmed, I am sitting in front of the proof that she hasn't been. Then again I am not afraid of the abstract fear of her "acting out" something she sees and getting me as a parent in trouble. Kids are sexual enough on their own without seeing anything. I have seen plenty of threads on here about LOs touch their genitals or doing bizarre things and no one is running around saying CPS is going to be called or the parents must have damaged the poor thing. Seriously my DD is going to explore her sexuality without my help and if she happens to wake up and see DH and I being intimate if she does remember it, it could be a great way to start a conversation about sex in general, something I think every parent needs to start with their children at a relatively young age. Then again maybe the same people who are so freaked out by the idea of DTD in front of their kiddos won't ever talk to their kid about sex.

 

I have just about had it with this whole thread, the attitudes here of some of the poster's just don't jive with me and while I respect people's opinions, more than once this conversation has become insulting to us Mamas who aren't afraid of being sexual around a LO who is sleeping.
 


 

I can only assume that you are referring to my comments in this post.  For the record, I am neither horrified nor nauseated by anything I've read about in this thread.  Nor am I judging anyone for doing what they think is best for their child. 

 

It seems that you are judging me for simply stating my concerns, which hardly seems reasonable.  I have not said anything that should be offensive to anyone in this thread, and I have not even stated my opinion about sex in the same room as an infant.

 

As for the prospect that seeing parents having sex might lead to an allegation of sexual abuse, perhaps my concern in that area is greater because I worked in the court system for a while.  Dealing with child sexual abuse cases will change the way you think about a child's knowledge of sexuality.  Sexual exploration is well and good, but the assumption in the system is that a very young child who can describe an erect penis or ejaculation or who can make sexual noises or describe adult sexual practices with any degree of accuracy has been abused.  I have seen convictions be upheld on very little else.  But even if an allegation is simply investigated and then dropped as unsubstantiated, the process of that investigation can ruin your year, if not your life.  I have seen that happen as well.

 

And yes, of course, a child's natural sexual curiosity is fine.  But most very young children (even children who have been taught about sex, as my DD certainly has been) do not understand the specifics well enough to act out adult sexual behaviors.  A child who has seen and misunderstood adult sexuality may try to coerce or force another child to participate in that behavior.  (Even the gentlest child may sometimes try to force or coerce others to play their preferred game.)  And a child who has had sexual activity forced on him or her even by another child of his or her same age may have serious psychological problems as a result.  I'm not saying that this is something that all children will do if they witness their parents having sex.  I will say that, based on my experience, I believe that it does sometimes happen. 

post #114 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by no5no5 View Post


 

As for the prospect that seeing parents having sex might lead to an allegation of sexual abuse, perhaps my concern in that area is greater because I worked in the court system for a while.  Dealing with child sexual abuse cases will change the way you think about a child's knowledge of sexuality.  Sexual exploration is well and good, but the assumption in the system is that a very young child who can describe an erect penis or ejaculation or who can make sexual noises or describe adult sexual practices with any degree of accuracy has been abused.  I have seen convictions be upheld on very little else.  But even if an allegation is simply investigated and then dropped as unsubstantiated, the process of that investigation can ruin your year, if not your life.  I have seen that happen as well.

 

 

Then, we shouldn't bedshare or have our children in our rooms at all, if that's the concern. What if dad gets up with "morning wood" and the toddler sees it? That chlid could describe an erect penis with far more accuracy than a child who happened to wake up while mom and dad were having sex (possibly under the covers) next to him/her. And, depending at what point a child walked in, a child walking in would be more likely to be able to describe what was going on. While the idea of having a sexual abuse investigation launched against my family terrifies me, I can't make all my parenting decisions based on that. The only possible way to remove all possibility of a child being able to describe an erect penis is to never have sex in your own home, at all, once you have a child. (Locking doors works, but only if you never, ever forget - not even once.)

 

I don't have sex in bed next to a toddler, mostly because I don't want a toddler looking at me (almost freaked out once when a dog walked in on me, too - I'm not even a little bit exhibitionistic and am waaaayyyyy over-inhibited). But, I can assure you that if I did, the child wouldn't see anything but motion under a blanket. In any case, I'm not sure what age group people are talking about when they say "toddler", but a lot of toddlers are non-verbal and wouldn't be able to describe any of these things at all.

 

I do wonder where some of these lines are drawn. Two of my four kids have repeatedly attempted to "french kiss" as infants/toddlers. It's not from having seen that, because one of them hadn't. It was a natural extension of their tendency to "mouth" everything. DS2 once asked me to kiss his penis - because he didn't see his penis as being any different than his cheek, elbow, fingertip or any other body part. (He was only about 2.5 or maybe 3, and we hadn't made much progress on the "private parts" concept yet.) It's absolutely freaky that someone could think this was a sign of anything perverted or abusive.

post #115 of 129

We use the bed and although it was a little weird - if she's asleep, we just thought who cares?  Especially as she still doesn't sleep on her own in the bed - I have to be nearby (I swear she has a sixth sense) so the bed is the only place that works for us!

post #116 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

 

Then, we shouldn't bedshare or have our children in our rooms at all, if that's the concern. What if dad gets up with "morning wood" and the toddler sees it? That chlid could describe an erect penis with far more accuracy than a child who happened to wake up while mom and dad were having sex (possibly under the covers) next to him/her. And, depending at what point a child walked in, a child walking in would be more likely to be able to describe what was going on. While the idea of having a sexual abuse investigation launched against my family terrifies me, I can't make all my parenting decisions based on that. The only possible way to remove all possibility of a child being able to describe an erect penis is to never have sex in your own home, at all, once you have a child. (Locking doors works, but only if you never, ever forget - not even once.)

 

I don't have sex in bed next to a toddler, mostly because I don't want a toddler looking at me (almost freaked out once when a dog walked in on me, too - I'm not even a little bit exhibitionistic and am waaaayyyyy over-inhibited). But, I can assure you that if I did, the child wouldn't see anything but motion under a blanket. In any case, I'm not sure what age group people are talking about when they say "toddler", but a lot of toddlers are non-verbal and wouldn't be able to describe any of these things at all.

 

I do wonder where some of these lines are drawn. Two of my four kids have repeatedly attempted to "french kiss" as infants/toddlers. It's not from having seen that, because one of them hadn't. It was a natural extension of their tendency to "mouth" everything. DS2 once asked me to kiss his penis - because he didn't see his penis as being any different than his cheek, elbow, fingertip or any other body part. (He was only about 2.5 or maybe 3, and we hadn't made much progress on the "private parts" concept yet.) It's absolutely freaky that someone could think this was a sign of anything perverted or abusive.

 

My 2yo would be able to describe an erect penis in great detail if he ever saw one - yes, with words.  He's highly verbal, and asked me when he was 18mo why I didn't have a penis.  He might have been younger, but I didn't write down when it happened.

 

I would imagine that as far as a child being able to describe an erect penis, or the act of sex, it would be far more upsetting to hear a child describing their parents having sex while in bed with them, than say, describing what would happen when a child walked in on his parents.  Don't tell me there wouldn't be a difference, I think the difference would be pretty significant.

post #117 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

 

Then, we shouldn't bedshare or have our children in our rooms at all, if that's the concern. What if dad gets up with "morning wood" and the toddler sees it? That chlid could describe an erect penis with far more accuracy than a child who happened to wake up while mom and dad were having sex (possibly under the covers) next to him/her. And, depending at what point a child walked in, a child walking in would be more likely to be able to describe what was going on. While the idea of having a sexual abuse investigation launched against my family terrifies me, I can't make all my parenting decisions based on that. The only possible way to remove all possibility of a child being able to describe an erect penis is to never have sex in your own home, at all, once you have a child. (Locking doors works, but only if you never, ever forget - not even once.



We coslept until DD turned 5, and DH simply wore boxers or pajamas to bed.  If he had an erection, he wouldn't change his clothes in front of DD; he'd go to the bathroom to do so.  So I certainly don't see cosleeping as incompatible with a basic level of modesty. 

 

I agree with you that it is impossible to absolutely prevent a child from ever being exposed to adult sexuality, unless that sexuality is not present in the home.  But to me it still makes sense to minimize the risk.  That's true for almost every risk in our lives.  Maybe you and your partner have such quiet, gentle, under-the-covers sex lives that the risk of a child seeing or hearing or feeling anything inappropriate, even if he or she should awaken, is minimal.  I accept that that could be possible for some people.

post #118 of 129

I think it is not hard to draw the line, but of course it is different for different people.  Personally, we draw the line using our sense of how aware the child may be.  An infant's awareness is different than a toddler's and we can draw our lines just fine.  There are no moral problems here for us, but we don't do anything we consider questionable and I do not believe our kids have ever seen anything that made us feel they had seen too much or anything that upset them.  The other line to draw is whether we can relax and enjoy ourselves.    

 

We have always had our ways of being sneaky when we feel the need, by being quiet and under covers or slipping away to an odd part of the house while they are doing their own thing during daytime hours.  We do put ourselves in a position of taking a risk of being walked in on, but we can hear footsteps well so we can cover up and by the time the door opens, we're just cuddling and not at all "graphic."  That's okay.  I am not shamed or anything if that cuddling suggests something more yet we are not on display either.  My kids are quite a bit older now, so they can get the idea of a closed door and they are capable of being alone doing other things in the house.  We no longer cosleep, but we have coslept with up to three kids.  (We had a whole room floor covered with futons at that time.)

 

I don't see any problem with doing it while nursing an infant who is truly not aware.  I would consider an infant in the la-la land of sleep-nursing not disturbed by a gentle quickie from behind, even though it's not very "fun".  But it really is not "fun" so why go for it, generally?  I can darn well tell the difference between a sleeping unaware infant (who simply doesn't judge the activities of others) and a near-toddler who is quite curious about what the adults are up to.  Later, a sleeping child with enough room to be undisturbed, no problem.  You can probably tell if they are likely to be disturbed just based on your awareness of their environment and sleep patterns.  A bouncy queen size bed of course is entirely different from multiple mats on a non-bouncy floor.  Full darkness by itself can provide a buffer of privacy as well.  So some things depend on the setup as well.  Blankets and carefulness with noise are worth it if it is the only way to be intimate.

 

If you are like most cosleeping families in our culture, you are choosing to not set up an individual bedroom for your child even though you have one available.  Well, that room should have an extra bed in it anyway IMO whether you call it a guest bed or whatever.  You don't have to send your child to a separate room at night to be able to have one available for you.  We generally always had more beds in the house that might be used for nursing and napping anyway because we had multiple young children and sometimes just needed extra spaces for different people's needs.  We actually needed an extra place for an adult just to get a nap alone sometimes, as my dh sometimes had to work odd very late and very early hours and had to catch up on sleep at a different time from the children's sleep.  We also used the couch more for DTD during that time of our lives after kids were all asleep and of course we did have a lot less sex regardless.  That was mainly because we were unpredictably on call and tired though.  Interruption for basic baby needs was always possible when they were little, no matter where we went.  Location was the easy part IME.

 

I think cultural norms are affected also by the relative luxury of privacy we have.  Americans often have more rooms available than other families in other countries.  When a family shares a single room or tiny house, as has been and is the case in many times and places, they devise different methods and standards for how discreet they are.  If you share a room by necessity, a child may wake up in the night and notice adults being "wrestly" and noisy in their shared blankets.  How shocking is that?  I don't find it shocking.  However, I do have the luxury of more privacy than that and I do use it.  It's just more relaxing and comfortable.   

 

post #119 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post



 

My 2yo would be able to describe an erect penis in great detail if he ever saw one - yes, with words.  He's highly verbal, and asked me when he was 18mo why I didn't have a penis.  He might have been younger, but I didn't write down when it happened.

 

I would imagine that as far as a child being able to describe an erect penis, or the act of sex, it would be far more upsetting to hear a child describing their parents having sex while in bed with them, than say, describing what would happen when a child walked in on his parents.  Don't tell me there wouldn't be a difference, I think the difference would be pretty significant.


I never said all toddlers were non-verbal. What I was getting at was that, if a toddler does happen to be non-verbal, concerns that they might go around talking about what a penis looks like, and trigger an abuse investigation, aren't really warranted. (My oldest two would both have been able to do the same thing by 18 months, or earlier. Neither of my younger two could. "Toddler" covers a lot of territory, both in terms of age, and in terms of development.)

 

Upsetting to whom? I was addressing the concern that a child might be able to describe an erect penis or a sex act. If the concern is that a child simply being able to describe the sex act is enough to trigger an investigation (or conviction!) of sexual abuse, then whether they can do so, because they were present the whole time, or because they walked in partway through, is irrelevant.

 

Yes - I agree that the dfiference would be significant. The child who walked in would probably be able to describe more detail, and would be more likely to have a ripe vocabulary to go along with it. (I can't see most couples who are having sex with a toddler in the bed being super verbally raunchy, yk?) The toddler in the bed may not be able to describe anything, if they slep through it. There's also no guarantee that the child who walked in was immediately noticed or that they fled. Some may be fascinated enough to stick around. Bottom line is that I, personally wouldn't have sex with a toddler in the bed (but am okay if they're sleeping in the same room), but that doesn't mean there's something wrong with it. I think this is just one more example of how screwed up we (I'm talking about "mainstream" - stupid word, but I don't have a better one - middle class, North America) are about sexuality. The fact that a couple having sex in the same bed as a sleeping baby could potentially trigger an abuse investigation turns my stomach.

post #120 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by no5no5 View Post


We coslept until DD turned 5, and DH simply wore boxers or pajamas to bed.  If he had an erection, he wouldn't change his clothes in front of DD; he'd go to the bathroom to do so.  So I certainly don't see cosleeping as incompatible with a basic level of modesty. 

 

Modesty, with respect to nudity and sexuality, is a meaningless concept to me. I realize it's a value for other people, so those people will obviously try to ensure that they live by its precepts. I cannot even imagine wearing boxers or PJs just to hide a penis from a child.

 

I agree with you that it is impossible to absolutely prevent a child from ever being exposed to adult sexuality, unless that sexuality is not present in the home.  But to me it still makes sense to minimize the risk. 

 

I don't see being exposed to adult sexuality - especially something as innocuous as an erection! - as a "risk", except for the paranoia from CPS. In fact, I think having to be that cautious about a child maybe seeing that isn't even necessarily sexual (eg. "morning wood", which many men get when they need to pee!) is damaging in its own right.

 

That's true for almost every risk in our lives.  Maybe you and your partner have such quiet, gentle, under-the-covers sex lives that the risk of a child seeing or hearing or feeling anything inappropriate, even if he or she should awaken, is minimal.  I accept that that could be possible for some people.

 

If couldn't have that kind of sex, I wouldn't be having sex in the same room as a toddler. If nothing else, I don't like to wake up a sleeping baby. Since there's usually nowhere else for me to go for sex, I'd learn pretty quickly to be quiet, even if it were a huge challenge for me, because not having sex until my youngest is out of my room isn't an acceptable alternative to me.

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