WA: ESB 5005 goes into effect 7/22/11 - get your appointments with your doctors now! - Page 3

[DahliaRW]

Originally Posted by LiLStar 

so... What about all those doctors who will kick out patients who refuse to vax? I'm imagining a situation where a family skipped wbv to avoid the confrontation, then goes in for the exemption and gets told they'll be dismissed if they don't comply with the cdc schedule. And then, assuming said family continues to refuse and seek the exemption, gets told that since they are no longer patients, the dr cannot sign? Finding a doctor who agrees with them isn't easy for everyone, especially those in more rural area I imagine

Exactly.  I'm betting that this will get taken to court to challenge constitutionality.  Hopefully NVIC or another organization has the funds to foot the bill and do this.  We will have to wiat and see.  One of the concerns I have with it, as written, is no where does it say a doctor HAS to discuss the pros and cons and sign.  They can simply refuse to do so with no reprocussions. 
 

[54321]

Hi all-

I got wind of all of this so late. I was emailed by NVIC but I had no idea the sense of urgency. I spent the last few hours reading up on the bill, your posts and the WA Dept of Heath website.

It used to be the COE (Cert of Exemption) was on the immunization schedule to link to. Dated 3/24 that has been removed.

I went to a childcare facility I used on Saturdays while I have a work appt (I am an ABA therapist for children with autism) and they told me next time I have to have my immunization papers. At my daughter's school she has a COE on file- looks like that will not be acceptable as all of this goes into effect (I wonder if any are grandfathered in??)- doubt the daycare and the Friday vote are specifically linked but- I think it is a sign of things to come.

I am going to make an appt with a Naturopath- one in Carnation was recommended to me.

Whew...I left Mississippi so I would have a say in my child's healthcare without pressure.

Glad I remembered to check in here. Hopefully we can navigate these changes with some online support.

Thanks!

Lisa 

[LiLStar]

Whoa, wait.. are you saying that once this is in effect, already filed exemptions will be void and we'll need to get new ones? I enrolled my dd in preschool in January (to begin in the fall), including the exemption (which I googled "WA state vaccination exemption form" and it came right up, and printed it) is it possible that I'll have to go get a new one?!

[Graceie]

Well crap !

[54321]

Honestly- now that I think more about that- I am not sure.

My daughter is in 2nd grade. I registered her in this school district in kindergarten. I did not have to redo any paperwork for 1st grade or this year even though our boundaries were changed and she was actually attending a different school. Because of that I am inclined to think..we will be ok but new folks to the community would not have the option for the old exemption form we have.

The childcare place I have been attending for 10 months 1 day a week. I was not asked for anything pertaining to vax when I registered her. Today was the 1st day. They mentioned having to get all of their files in order. All parents were being asked to bring in records.

Lisa

[54321]

(2)(a) The form presented on or after the effective date of this

26 section must include a statement to be signed by a health care

27 practitioner stating that he or she provided the signator with

28 information about the benefits and risks of immunization to the child.

29 The form may be signed by a health care practitioner at any time prior

30 to the enrollment of the child in a school or licensed day care.

I went back and was reading this amendments- the above passed Friday. So- reading this should cover exemptions filed but for new ones we will have to have a practitioner sign.

Applying it to my situation- dd is ok for school but since this childcare place has never asked for the form it would be a currently dated one and would need this extra signature?

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2011-12/Pdf/Amendments/House/5005.E%20AMH%20HCW%20H2234.2.pdf

[DahliaRW]

Originally Posted by 54321 

Hi all-

I got wind of all of this so late. I was emailed by NVIC but I had no idea the sense of urgency. I spent the last few hours reading up on the bill, your posts and the WA Dept of Heath website.

It used to be the COE (Cert of Exemption) was on the immunization schedule to link to. Dated 3/24 that has been removed.

I went to a childcare facility I used on Saturdays while I have a work appt (I am an ABA therapist for children with autism) and they told me next time I have to have my immunization papers. At my daughter's school she has a COE on file- looks like that will not be acceptable as all of this goes into effect (I wonder if any are grandfathered in??)- doubt the daycare and the Friday vote are specifically linked but- I think it is a sign of things to come.

I am going to make an appt with a Naturopath- one in Carnation was recommended to me.

Whew...I left Mississippi so I would have a say in my child's healthcare without pressure.

Glad I remembered to check in here. Hopefully we can navigate these changes with some online support.

Thanks!

Lisa 

I'm guessing you're going to see Dr. Kathleen Allen, she is fantastic!

[DahliaRW]

Originally Posted by 54321 

(2)(a) The form presented on or after the effective date of this

26 section must include a statement to be signed by a health care

27 practitioner stating that he or she provided the signator with

28 information about the benefits and risks of immunization to the child.

29 The form may be signed by a health care practitioner at any time prior

30 to the enrollment of the child in a school or licensed day care.

I went back and was reading this amendments- the above passed Friday. So- reading this should cover exemptions filed but for new ones we will have to have a practitioner sign.

Applying it to my situation- dd is ok for school but since this childcare place has never asked for the form it would be a currently dated one and would need this extra signature?

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2011-12/Pdf/Amendments/House/5005.E%20AMH%20HCW%20H2234.2.pdf

Well, the law isn't in effect yet, so I don't think you need to have the signed form by a practitioner until it is. 
 

[54321]

Hi DahliaRW :)

Yes- Kathleen Allen...and you just made my day!!! Thank you! I haven't met her yet but I plan on making an appointment with her online system this weekend. We just see a doctor in Snoqualmie for little stuff like colds. I wanted to establish a relationship with someone I felt I could really talk to.

Thanks also for your insights about the form. I will call or email and see if they will accept a COE and link them to the WA Dept of Heath requirements for the year 2010-2011. The current form is right there. 

http://www.doh.wa.gov/CFh/immunize/schools/vaccine.htm

[SwanMom]

See, the whole religious thing bugs me.  Because it seems like it's giving preference to organized religions and not respecting a personal religion (which can be the same as a personal philosophy or worldview).  It's also very vague.  It just says you have to demonstrate membership.  Think it'll work (when the time comes...if this stands up in court) to write a letter stating that I'm a member of the Church of SwanMom?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Here's what 5005 says:

Excuses a parent or legal guardian who exempts his or her child
from immunization requirements because of religious beliefs from
providing the new form if he or she demonstrates membership in a
religious body or church in which religious beliefs or teachings would
preclude medical treatment by a health care practitioner.

[Graceie]

so could you just say " our  belifi sytem  does not belive in seeing a doc . " perod and if they ask say when is it your place has a school to quiz a parent on there belifs

[DahliaRW]

Originally Posted by Graceie 

so could you just say " our  belifi sytem  does not belive in seeing a doc . " perod and if they ask say when is it your place has a school to quiz a parent on there belifs

You have to demonstrate membership in that organization.  And, you truly have to believe in not taking your children in for medical treatment.  So unless you truly belong to a religion that does believe that, you can't use that claim.  I think they put that in there because they know this will be challenged in court.

[54321]

So I just sent an inquiry to the childcare place. It was 2 sentences- short, sweet, polite and had a link to the Dept of WA requirements for childcare for the year 2010-2011. I will let you know the response I get. 

Thanks-

Lisa

[DahliaRW]

Originally Posted by 54321 

So I just sent an inquiry to the childcare place. It was 2 sentences- short, sweet, polite and had a link to the Dept of WA requirements for childcare for the year 2010-2011. I will let you know the response I get. 

Thanks-

Lisa

Well, then sign th exemption form and turn it in.  They have to take it, legally, in this state.  :)

[54321]

Originally Posted by DahliaRW 

Well, then sign th exemption form and turn it in.  They have to take it, legally, in this state.  :)

I received a response back and yep- you are correct, not only will they accept it but the owner replied to me with an upbeat and positive tone. 

I suppose I will always carry the residual baggage of reactions I've gotten from those (especially back in Mississippi) who disagree with delayed/alternate/exempt vaccination choices. And with Andrew Wakefield in the news as of late- the heated debate gets hotter. And in the field I am in..pretty heated there as well. Many parents feel a connection- many professionals think otherwise and parents are left to be secretive about their choice in fear of charged accusations of being uneducated, angry, or a threat to others children.

I know an autism-vaccine passible connection is not the only reason we (any of us) chooses to delay or do an alternate schedule or not vax at all but...that part of the debate often takes center stage. 

Whew- I am relieved. I also learned some valuable lessons. 

Thanks!!
 

[philomom]

http://news.opb.org/article/nw-states-move-counter-rise-immunization-waivers/

On NPR this morning.

I'm in Oregon and I'm more of a delayed vaxer with my kids .. so I haven't had any issues so far.

[DahliaRW]

I really hate that states really think people don't vax out of convenience.  Really, most of us are very educated and have done more research and study on vaccines then the average pediatrician. 

[MamaofLiam]

Originally Posted by DahliaRW 

I really hate that states really think people don't vax out of convenience.  Really, most of us are very educated and have done more research and study on vaccines then the average pediatrician. 

Originally Posted by philomom 

http://news.opb.org/article/nw-states-move-counter-rise-immunization-waivers/

On NPR this morning.

I'm in Oregon and I'm more of a delayed vaxer with my kids .. so I haven't had any issues so far.

it is unbelievable to me that so many assume that ppl who delay/selective/do not vax do so for "convenience". to me it would seem to be the opposite - we've done so much research, spent countless hours reading and discussing... none of that is something i would call convenient. its often the people who follow CDC shot by shot that have done zero research and go with the flow, which is "more convenient" - based on my experience with my own set of family and friends.

[Momalea]

I heard most of the news report while I was driving today, but not all of it. What I remember it saying about the convenience issue was it's easier to fill out the exemption form than gather up the health records and fill out the form. The point being they're not sure how many people are really not vaccinating v. just not wanting to fill out the form.

I was surprised to hear that less than 1% of kids in this country have received no vaccinations. I know many who haven't, it must just be the folks I hang out with.

I was talking to a friend about how worried I am about the way legislation is going around philosophical exemptions and she said that her friend, who works on the part of an immunization coalition, has said that their goal is to put an end of all philosophical exemptions in WA. And so far they're making a nice progress.

[DahliaRW]

Originally Posted by Momalea 

I heard most of the news report while I was driving today, but not all of it. What I remember it saying about the convenience issue was it's easier to fill out the exemption form than gather up the health records and fill out the form. The point being they're not sure how many people are really not vaccinating v. just not wanting to fill out the form.

I was surprised to hear that less than 1% of kids in this country have received no vaccinations. I know many who haven't, it must just be the folks I hang out with.

I was talking to a friend about how worried I am about the way legislation is going around philosophical exemptions and she said that her friend, who works on the part of an immunization coalition, has said that their goal is to put an end of all philosophical exemptions in WA. And so far they're making a nice progress.

I actually disagree.  Most people don't know there are exemptions, they have no idea.  Most people think you HAVE to vaccinate to go to school, period.

Ad the philosophical exemption, I totally agree.  I have always claimed a religious exemption because I figure if they ever get rid of the philosophical one and I switch, I'll be scrutinized.  But if I already had a religious exemption I don't think that it'd be such a big issue.