I am livid - please tell me if I am overreacting

[oceanbaby]

I hear a lot of complaints from my kids about the "lunch ladies," who are basically the yard duty ladies who supervise lunch by strolling around the tables barking at kids to sit still and be quiet.  (They don't actually serve lunch - the parent volunteers do that.)   It's all the typical power trip stuff that I find irritating but is so common in schools.  As one of the parents who serves lunch sometimes, I have heard the lunch lady be very rude to kids on several different occasions, and then turn around and be as sweet as pie to us.  I'm new to the school (to school in general, as a former homeschooler) and none of the other parents seemed upset, so I kind of let it go, although there was an incident in particular with a kid I didn't know that I really thought was out of line.  But, I am hypersensitive to the complete lack of respect adults tend to show to kids in general, and I had already complained about a few other things.

Today, my first grader (6.5yo) tells me that he had been picking his nose at the lunch table (this is an ongoing habit of his that we are trying to work on), and when he raised his hand to ask to be excused, the lunch lady said "Yes nose picker?"  Ds2 happened to think it was hilarious when he relayed the story to me.  In fact, his lead up to telling me what happened was:  "Mom, today at school I picked my nose and there was someone there who didn't mind!" since I'm always telling him that other people find it gross.

I am soooooo angry that she would call him a name in front of the entire class.  What the hell kind of adult does that?  I've been to see the Principal several times already about other things, but I am so angry I feel like this should be reported. 

Am I overreacting?  Is there something I'm missing?

[elisheva]

I'm imagining in my head a context where this could've been the adult's attempt at humor...still in poor taste, but I can see it. 

If your ds wasn't bothered by it, I wouldn't raise it as an issue. I'm sure something else will come along that will trump this and will definitely need to be reported. 

[bean]

I don't think you're overreacting at all - it is not appropriate for a person in any position of power to resort to name-calling. Teasing small developing humans is not "humorous" and shouldn't be accepted as such by looking the other way.

[kathymuggle]

I would leave the school to HS or I would find another school.  This is not your first issue at the school, there seems to be culture of disrespect, and you cannot change that by complaining.  Adults have to acknowledge there is problem, want to change, and work hard at it.  I doubt the adults who are doing the disrespecting at the school even think there is an issue.

I would make a complaint, I would put it in writing, and I would send it to her boss and the principal. She might be reprimanded and if you are very lucky, sent to sensitivity training.  It does not change the fact that there will be another incident like this a few weeks down the road from her or someone else.

[elizawill]

i'm glad it didn't bother your son. my son would have reacted with anger & probably gotten himself into trouble.  i hope things get better for your boys. i know it's been an adjustment this year. hang in there. sending good vibes your way

[One_Girl]

This late in the year she and your son may have established a playful relationship about this ongoing habit and that may be something that truly fit into the norms for their relationship.  She may really not have a problem with it, kids tend to be very good at picking up on adult irritation or disgust, or this may be their joke to remind him what his hands are doing.  I know it seems like an awful thing to say to a kid, but most of the kids in first grade pick their nose and if he though it was funny it truly could have been something silly they do.  I think that since your son thought it was so funny you should let it go and address only the big issues that come up. 

It sounds like a deeper issue might be how you feel about the kids in that school in general based on the environment. If you feel that the environment is affecting them in negative ways then I think you should look into taking them out.  The principal may humor you by listening to your complaints, but unless there is a serious wrongdoing on the part of a staff member that is probably all they will do.  It sounds like they have made it clear that they aren't worried about your concerns so I don't know that bringing more to them is going to be productive unless they are serious concerns that have an obvious negative impact on your child (and even then they may not do a thing about it because they really don't care about losing a few children who's families don't find the school a good fit).

[mattemma04]

It would do no good,but it will make you feel better.Do it. Doesn't the woman realise that calling him a nose picker will label him for other kids? Maybe she does know,but I would point it out.It could lead to others calling him nose picker/booger,and that will affect his self esteem.

The school must really dislike you by now. I know when my kids were in PS I also would voice my concern about issues. They were glad when I pulled my kids out.

And yes it is discusting how people abuse kids like this daily and no one cares.Snarky comments add up and KILL your child from within. It is no wonder so many children start to dislike learning,because the enviroment they are placed in is not meeting their needs.

[meetoo]

I wouldn't say anything. It sounds like he took it as a joke and isn't upset by it. Maybe she is someone who just kids around like that. Like another poster said they have probably developed a relationship by this point in the year.  I say stuff like that to my kids sometimes and they just laugh. Or go on to even grosser things LOL.  

We have been back and forth with schooling so school isn't a new thing to us, but the first year my oldest was in school the lack of control I had over the people she came in contact with was HUGE deal to me. Part of having kids in school though is realizing that they are going to have people in their life that may not do things like you would. I think most of the time it's a good thing. It broadens their views, gives them a different perspective, and just more people in their lives. Some people people should never be in some children's lives and some parents can't handle giving up that control. I think you need to take a good long look at whether or not school is what's best for them. If you are the type of family that lets kids make these decisions and your kids want to be in school, then you really are going to have to back off and let things go. People have bad days, school staff included, kids act differently in school then they ever will at home, etc. etc.. You need to trust that the school is staffed with trained professionals that really do have kids best interest at heart. I have no idea what your school is like and all schools are not created equal so I'm not saying that you should blindly trust the school, but if your kids are going to be in a school you need to trust that school. If you can't you need to figure out if it's your issue or the schools. This sounds mean and I don't mean it meanly. I'm all for homeschooling, I think my DD really needed to be homeschooled last year and would not be apposed to homeschooling again in the future if our circumstances allow for it.  I'm just saying you need to figure out if these are issues you would have with any school because your still strongly set on homeschooling or if it really is a bad school.  

I've been up since like 5:30 I hope this makes sense. LOL  

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by meetoo 

I wouldn't say anything. It sounds like he took it as a joke and isn't upset by it. Maybe she is someone who just kids around like that. Like another poster said they have probably developed a relationship by this point in the year.  I say stuff like that to my kids sometimes and they just laugh. Or go on to even grosser things LOL.  

We have been back and forth with schooling so school isn't a new thing to us, but the first year my oldest was in school the lack of control I had over the people she came in contact with was HUGE deal to me. Part of having kids in school though is realizing that they are going to have people in their life that may not do things like you would. I think most of the time it's a good thing. It broadens their views, gives them a different perspective, and just more people in their lives. Some people people should never be in some children's lives and some parents can't handle giving up that control. I think you need to take a good long look at whether or not school is what's best for them. If you are the type of family that lets kids make these decisions and your kids want to be in school, then you really are going to have to back off and let things go. People have bad days, school staff included, kids act differently in school then they ever will at home, etc. etc.. You need to trust that the school is staffed with trained professionals that really do have kids best interest at heart. I have no idea what your school is like and all schools are not created equal so I'm not saying that you should blindly trust the school, but if your kids are going to be in a school you need to trust that school. If you can't you need to figure out if it's your issue or the schools. This sounds mean and I don't mean it meanly. I'm all for homeschooling, I think my DD really needed to be homeschooled last year and would not be apposed to homeschooling again in the future if our circumstances allow for it.  I'm just saying you need to figure out if these are issues you would have with any school because your still strongly set on homeschooling or if it really is a bad school.  

I've been up since like 5:30 I hope this makes sense. LOL  

I agree with most of this post.

I do not agree with the bolded part.

A childs reaction to a statement is not overly relevant as to whether the comment was appropriate or not.   I have seen child over-react to mild statements, or laugh off inappropriate and hurtful ones.  A lot of it comes down to sensitivity, how one internalizes things, etc.  The issue here is that the adult did something unprofessioanl- she name called and opened a door to teasing from fellow students.  Not ok at all - even if her son thought it was funny.

I think it is important as parents to point out inappropriate behaviour so children learn how they should be treated.  There have been numerous times when I have said to my kids "you know, xyz really should not have said that.  I am glad your feeling are not hurt, and hopefully the statement was just a one-off, but I need you to know people should not treat each other that way"

[pApamOm]

You aren't overreacting. You are asking a community of concerned, loving individuals for guidance. I would call that just the right amount of acting.

You made your feeling very clear, which makes it easy to direct your attention to a good place to start; the issue is that you're having a strong feeling. Feelings happen for a good reason and you would do well to honour them and find out what they are trying to tell you. You're entitled to act on the source of your feelings (this is different from letting your feelings rule your actions).

I don't feel good about name-calling from adults in any setting, and I would politely explain this and ask a person to refrain from doing it in my presence. If the target is a child I would feel obligated to advocate on the child's behalf as well. This gets a bit trickier, since the idea is for the behaviour to cease whether I'm around or not. The trick, however, is the same; own responsibility for the request. "I feel very strongly that a child's identity needs to be acknowledged and validated, so I must ask you to please resist the urge to rename or label these children."

Along those same lines I would let the child know that his or her identity belongs to him or her, and give permission to politely ask for recognition of that fact. "You may be a person who happens to be nose-picking at the moment, but you are [Brian]. You do not have to accept another person's label for you, and if you choose to, understand that the label doesn't define you."

Any resentment you might incur as a result of direct action will surely dissipate far more rapidly than if you were to, say, lodge a formal grievance. Should you find my approach ineffective and the disrespect continues, you still have all those other options.

[oceanbaby]

Thanks for all your thoughts.  Since this is the only school we've ever been in (aside from preschool at one point), it's hard for me to say if my issues are with this particular school or school in general.  I have a feeling that a lot of what I think is disrespect of children is pretty widespread in most school environments.  When I had heard the lunch lady being mean to one of the other kids a few months back, and I turned to the other parents and was like "WTF?", their response was to just shrugging their shoulders about it, even though they agreed it was rude.  It was like this was old news to them, and it apparently never occurred to any of them to say anything.  So maybe I just have an unrealistic view of how children (people in general) should be treated?

I think I am going to wait until the next time I have a conversation with the principal, and have a "by the way" kind of conversation with her about my observations about the lunch lady.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by oceanbaby 

Thanks for all your thoughts.  Since this is the only school we've ever been in (aside from preschool at one point), it's hard for me to say if my issues are with this particular school or school in general.  I have a feeling that a lot of what I think is disrespect of children is pretty widespread in most school environments.  When I had heard the lunch lady being mean to one of the other kids a few months back, and I turned to the other parents and was like "WTF?", their response was to just shrugging their shoulders about it, even though they agreed it was rude.  It was like this was old news to them, and it apparently never occurred to any of them to say anything.  So maybe I just have an unrealistic view of how children (people in general) should be treated?

I think I am going to wait until the next time I have a conversation with the principal, and have a "by the way" kind of conversation with her about my observations about the lunch lady.

Teachers are taught classroom management, but the lunch aids are often the school admins and may not have any particular training. The lunchroom in my ds' last school was an assault on the senses, bright and very loud--it usually gave me a headache to sit there with him. Though sometimes the aids seem abrupt (they probably had a headache too), they did have some rhymes that the children knew, that caught their attention and would bring the noise level down for awhile.
 

A lot came up when I googled the subject http://www.google.com/search?q=lunchroom+management&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a .

This study looks like it would be helpful if you can get the full text 

The Development and Analysis of an Elementary Comprehensive ...

[sapphire_chan]

I would actually have a discussion with the lunch lady herself about how her comment could've opened your ds up to teasing from other kids.

Because your kids have no problems complaining to you when they feel people are being mean, and your ds laughed about the remark, I don't think the lady was trying to be mean (and I'd be sure to point out that you know it was a little joke between them). There are just some jokes between adults and kids that work when only other adults are around, but can cause problems if other kids see them and don't have the experience to get it.

And it's not just in the context of thinking it's okay too tease your ds more, it could also be a problem if the kids just think it's funny and a perfectly nice thing to say. I can see it now, some guest surreptitiously picks their nose in a kid's home and the kid ends up grounded for a week for saying "thanks for visiting nose-picker!"

[meetoo]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I agree with most of this post.

I do not agree with the bolded part.

I think it is important as parents to point out inappropriate behaviour so children learn how they should be treated.  There have been numerous times when I have said to my kids "you know, xyz really should not have said that.  I am glad your feeling are not hurt, and hopefully the statement was just a one-off, but I need you to know people should not treat each other that way"

I see your point. I guess my point was more her son didn't seem hurt by it, it isn't some on going thing, so I wouldn't make an issue over it. I think having a conversation with your child about it is a good idea. :) 

[sublimeliving]

She was being a snarky bleep! I would confront her, and ask her to call your son by his given name, opposed to "Nose Picker."