Originally Posted by bodhitree
Jes, do you have a recipe for the canned salmon burgers? That sounds good. And I've heard before that some people who can't tolerate "normal" dairy do great with raw dairy. (How weird is it that pasteurized, homogenized milk is "normal"?) The problem is, I'm not sure how to get my hands on some raw milk to try it out without having to buy a herd share. I might be able to check with a couple friends, though, to see if they have any extra that I could buy from them. I just don't want to spend $75 on the herd share and a month's worth of milk, only to find out we can't use it, kwim? We are going on an intensive gut-healing campaign over the next few months, so hopefully DD and I can heal from our food intolerances and be able to do dairy again. I'd be happy being off gluten for a good long time, but I would love to be able to have kefir, butter, and cheese.
This recipe looks good: http://allrecipes.com//Recipe/yummy-lemon-salmon-burgers/Detail.aspx Last time, I tried the recipe off the back of the can, and it was lacking some zest, for sure! The lemon one sounds delish, though, I think I will give that a try next time. I think it would be good with a little dijon mustard mixed in to the patties, too. We've been doing fish on Fridays. I have to say, I've been trying some wack foods just for the sake of health and expanding my palate--I mixed up some sardines like how you would tuna salad (with pickle and onion, etc), and dd really liked it on crackers, I kinda choked it down coz I know sardines have good calcium and oils and all that, but the texture was a little too mushy for me. Dh gagged I'm just going to keep at it--sardines are lower on the food chain than tuna.
Could you call a farm and explain your situation and that you would like a "sample" of milk? I don't know if that's exactly within the bounds of raw milk law, but I would think that if you were on site, they might let you try some and maybe take a little home? Idk. Raw milk actually sounds really good--it's been on my mind a lot lately. I emailed that farm, but no one has gotten back to me, so I will have to be more direct and call, I think. Now I'm panicking a bit that they won't have a herd share available!
Originally Posted by jkg
I just recently found this thread and while I still haven't read through the whole thing, so many of you have so succinctly expressed what I have been thinking about the past couple months. I am so sad that my vegan diet dies not seem right for me any more. Part of me feels like perhaps I am not trying hard enough to make it work, but honestly, I no linger have the energy...and that is a big part of my problem. I am weak, tired, unmotivated, and my skin has felt like sandpaper. I just started letting some dairy and eggs back into my diet, and it seems to be helping with my skin (I'm guessing the fats?). I don't anticipate being ready to eat meat ever again, but in some way I wish I could. I have learned that I have been oh so judgmental and now that it is me weighing my ethics against what my body needs/wants, I am singing a different tune.
jkg- I'm glad that you are here! I understand what you are saying. I used to think that the only fascist universal law I could ever imagine being just would be world veganism--that if everyone were vegan, it would save the planet, and there would be enough food for all. My veg*nism was really driven my animal cruelty, factory farm conditions, and the declining quality of meat in the supermarket--I was looking at it from a standard consumer perspective--but like bodhitree said, pastured animal life has a totally different impact on the earth and the life of the animal, not to mention the quality of meat. Now I feel like I have to eat my words a little because yes, grain-fed beef, etc is BAD for the environment, but I do think that free range meat consumption is different. You say "I wish I could" so I want to give you permission ;) if you want to do so, you can consume meat--if you are craving it and your inner wise mama voice is saying you need it, then don't turn away from that-give yourself what you want/need, it's okay and not just okay but really can be a great decision I identify with the sandpaper skin thing, I would drink water like crazy and use lots of plant oils in cooking, and my lips would always be blistery-dry but I've noticed that my skin is not as dry/itchy and my lips are no longer cracked since I started back on meat.
Originally Posted by erratum
It's so strange that this subject has been weighing heavily on my mind lately and to find a whole thread about it. As of now, I'm still on the fence. I've been a vegetarian for 17 years and have been seriously questioning how healthy it really is for a few months now, starting with cravings and dreams about meat. Those have faded but I found out a few weeks ago that DS has two cavities and it really has me searching for answers in our diet. I can't help but think that our vegetarianism might have something to do with his decay and that my morals may be putting my family's health at risk.
And I feel the way so many of you have said: that I would be loosing a huge piece of my identity or my integrity if I were to start eating meat.
Besides dismembering things -- bones and gristle and fat: OH MY! -- and the good natured but relentless ribbing of my family (they think "hey, would you like some steak?" is a HILARIOUS joke and have thought this for 17 years. I can only imagine what sort of guff we'll get when we tell them we changed our minds.), the hardest thing for me to get past is that I don't know how to justify to my child that killing things is ok and (most importantly) something that WE do, because I still have a hard time justifying it to myself.
Though I've been at times a fairly militant vegetarian in the past (though not evangelical), I've tried to raise DS without the militant view (ie: most people eat meat but our family doesn't, no big deal.) but he's a sensitive guy. He once had a concerned talk with me after watching me spray the ants who had taken up residence in my houseplants with orange oil. He said that really there was no need to kill the ants because they don't hurt us and we can all share the house together and be happy. (He's three.) And frankly I'm a sensitive lady so I had no answer for him other that they get into the cats' food and then the cats have nothing to eat, because he's kind of right and I asked myself the same question while I was doing it. As far as pests go, ants are really just annoying and not much else.
And I question whether I'm really entitled to eat an animal that I KNOW I wouldn't have the guts/gumption/stomach to kill myself. I've always stuck to the philosophy that if I was starving, I would certainly kill and eat an animal, but if I have the option to make another choice, why shouldn't I?
But is my body trying to tell me that it's not an option I can choose?
One thing that really resonated with me is how pp's have mentioned how much we go out of our way with the processed veggie substitute products that have a laundry list of ingredients when meat is so unprocessed (ie: so much closer to "real food"). I am so careful to get pure, fresh, organic produce and dairy etc. but I serve 'em up with a processed slab of Quorn from a box in the freezer. What's that about?! Soy may or may not be safe, but it's defiantly a goitrogen, and being hyperthyroid, I try to avoid it these days. (I swilled it down like there was no tomorrow in the past!) And most of the other veggie proteins are so carb heavy.
I agree with the traditional food philosophies in many respects. We've been drinking raw milk and eating pastured eggs for about a year and a half. We eat lots of butter, cheese, and cream. I try to soak most grains (but meal planing is not my strong suit) and our bread is homemade, slow fermented, whole wheat sourdough. I just started implementing fermented cod liver oil and cell salts for the cavities. I want to try bone broth, but I'm really intimidated by all the cracking bones and skimming fat and the mere mention of phrases such as "jello-like consistency" creep me out to no end.
I brought the meat question up to DP the other evening, and this decision is so weighty and I've seen meat as such an "evil" for so long, I felt like Eve temping Adam with the apple. DP felt weird about the idea of it, like I do. He says he's ok if DS and I go carnivore, but he's not so sure about himself. (he's afraid he'll get fat, he says. ) But I also wonder if a change in HIS diet wouldn't improve his wild mood swings and quick temper he gets when he's hungry. Plus he has cavities too, after 10 years on a vegetarian diet.
I must say that the idea of opening a whole new undiscovered world of cooking is really intriguing and exciting.
erratum-welcome to our little thread! Like you and bodhitree, I have a problem killing insects, too. I totally let the ants live in my house for a while by postponing spraying them and eventually they just went away, weird, huh?
I craved the bone broth first, I think I wanted the bone broth even more than the meat--my body was telling me that I needed that! The good news is that you don't have to crack the bones, you can just throw them in a pot with a little vinegar or lemon juice, spices, etc. and simmer simmer simmer. The jello-consistency I have yet to achieve with chicken broth--I think it is like the holy grail of bone broth and if you do finally get it, by then you'd probably be pretty psyched about it!
I don't know about the dis-membering issue. I kinda forced myself to procure the meat and go through every step of cooking it rather than rely on de-boned chicken or asking my dh to handle it raw--I just really wanted this decision to be MINE, you know? I wanted to own my meat consumption. I felt the same way, that people should be willing to kill it if they want to eat it--I don't know if I could really do that, intellectually, but I always used to tell friends (like you said) 'if I was starving in the woods, I'd definitely kill an animal to eat it' but justifying my vegetarianism that I wasn't in a life or death situation--but maybe we are? I am eating this meat to sustain my own life. For me right now, I am understanding that it is life or death. I don't know if you dig Susun Weed, and this article is primarily about goat-keeping, but if you read through it, she has some really, really awesome insights about "giving death" that I have been pondering since reading it: http://www.susunweed.com/herbal_ezine/July10/healingwise.htm I am still thinking about it . . .
I think if I knew how, I would totally go quail-hunting or something to sustain our poultry consumption. We have been cooking a chicken about every other week (for 3-4 meals from each bird)--that's 24 chickens a year! Wow. Would I personally kill two chickens a month to feed my family? I don't know. But I think if dh or I could hunt geese or duck or quail or smth and stock up the freezer once a year, I would feel really good about it. I have friends that do that, and I've got mad respect for them. Plus, it's much cheaper than buying it at the store!
I took dh to a ribs place today and had my first ribs, non-organic and all. The freedom I have to eat where/what I want is so rich, I really am luxuriating in it--not just ordering sides at a restaurant, kwim?
to you all!