or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Talk Amongst Ourselves › Spirituality › Traditional Catholic Moms Spring/Summer 2011
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Traditional Catholic Moms Spring/Summer 2011 - Page 8

post #141 of 293

We clap along to the Gloria (refrain), and to the Alleluia as well.  And - surprise, surprise! - nobody is running rampant during that time.

 

What exactly is wrong with clapping?  Many of the psalms written by David were meant to be sung joyfully, accompanied by instruments and (probably, I'll bet) even some clapping.  We have lots of liturgical music (mostly recessional) that includes clapping.  IMO it invites participation (especially from kids), and enhances the worship experience.

 

My daughter cantors at a LifeTeen Mass on Sunday evenings.  The music is wonderful, and yes there is sometimes clapping.  It's a great "family friendly" Mass.

post #142 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger View Post

We clap along to the Gloria (refrain), and to the Alleluia as well.  And - surprise, surprise! - nobody is running rampant during that time.

 

What exactly is wrong with clapping?  Many of the psalms written by David were meant to be sung joyfully, accompanied by instruments and (probably, I'll bet) even some clapping.  We have lots of liturgical music (mostly recessional) that includes clapping.  IMO it invites participation (especially from kids), and enhances the worship experience.

 

My daughter cantors at a LifeTeen Mass on Sunday evenings.  The music is wonderful, and yes there is sometimes clapping.  It's a great "family friendly" Mass.



that's lovely, but my understanding is that this is a thread for traditional Catholic mamas, hence the title.thumb.gif

post #143 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshoes View Post





that's lovely, but my understanding is that this is a thread for traditional Catholic mamas, hence the title.thumb.gif


What does that mean, exactly?

 

And what is not traditional about King David's Psalms?
 

 

post #144 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger View Post




What does that mean, exactly?

 

And what is not traditional about King David's Psalms?
 

 



It means that this is not a thread for debate, it is one for support. It has been in existence for a loooooong time with the intention that us traditional Catholic mamas might have a *safe* place to support one another. There has always been debate amongst traditional and liberal mamas (for lack of better terms) about how we perceive, practice, and participate in the Church, so many years ago (there has been one on and off since I joined MDC in 2002 (under a different user name) this thread was started so that traditional mamas could express their thoughts without having to debate anyone in the Religious Studies forum.

 

 

post #145 of 293

I'm not debating, though - I'm merely commenting on your point of view and giving another.  Do all "traditional" Catholics here really feel that clapping during the Gloria is a horrible thing?  That a LifeTeen Mass not "traditional" enough?  It's liturgy, and Eucharist!

 

Is the "traditional" focus here really this narrow and exclusive?

post #146 of 293

Personally, I'm less traditional when it comes to liturgy as long as it is within the range acceptable by Rome, and there is more leeway than a lot of people realize.  I don't know where clapping during the Gloria falls.  I know a couple elements that used to be in the LifeTeen mass have been prohibited, but most churches have adjusted to comply, and lively music played by a contemporary ensemble is within the acceptable range.  LifeTeen itself fell out of favor at the church I grew up in when its founder was excommunicated (for unrelated charges).  Here in this thread, we are united in our support for the Magisterium (or ask that those who post only speak in support of the Magisterium while posting on this thread), and many lean toward a more traditional form of liturgy.

 

Moonshoes shared of an experience with a liturgy that made her uncomfortable, that she felt was irreverent.  The bottom line is that she prefers a more traditional liturgy than the one she experienced.  Obviously, she's not the pope, and she doesn't get to make decisions about what is or is not allowed in liturgy, so there is no need to argue with her to try to get her to permit such forms of worship.  She doesn't have to like clapping during the Gloria.

post #147 of 293

on another note, DH and I are thrilled that DS will be attending this school in the fall. It is where we attend the Tridentine mass. There is no spot for DD right now, her grade is full, but I think we will homeschool until space opens up and she can attend catechism class there.

 

I love that they start every day with Holy Mass. What a wonderful way to start your day!

post #148 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ View Post

 

 

Moonshoes shared of an experience with a liturgy that made her uncomfortable, that she felt was irreverent.  The bottom line is that she prefers a more traditional liturgy than the one she experienced.  Obviously, she's not the pope, and she doesn't get to make decisions about what is or is not allowed in liturgy, so there is no need to argue with her to try to get her to permit such forms of worship.  She doesn't have to like clapping during the Gloria.



THanks.love.gif

post #149 of 293
Bathing suits with cover-ups goes a bit far for me, but I often wear flip-flops. I actually go back and forth on whether to really dress up or just wear decent clothes. I like to stop by during the day sometimes just whenever I feel like it and visit with Our Lord, and I don't run home and put on a dress and heels before I do. So why fuss about what I wear to Mass? He's present in both cases. And I think he accepts us as we are. IDK.
post #150 of 293
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger View Post




What does that mean, exactly?

 

And what is not traditional about King David's Psalms?
 

 




In my understanding it refers to MDC Catholic mamas who support the Magisterium in all things- we do not argue with the Church's teachings nor do we teach anything contrary to the teachings of the Church.

ie: We do not support female ordination, homosexual marriage, etc.  We do support the upcoming translation and the return to better interpretation.

post #151 of 293
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger View Post

I'm not debating, though - I'm merely commenting on your point of view and giving another.  Do all "traditional" Catholics here really feel that clapping during the Gloria is a horrible thing?  That a LifeTeen Mass not "traditional" enough?  It's liturgy, and Eucharist!

 

Is the "traditional" focus here really this narrow and exclusive?



A majority of traditional Catholics I know do not support clapping in during Mass at any time- during the Gloria, etc.

And most traditional Catholics I know do not feel that the LifeTeen Mass is appropriate- there are far better ways to experience the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass- the Mass is meant to take us from this Earth and to the foot of the Cross and into Heaven.

post #152 of 293

Thank you for the clarifications.  I do not intend to debate here; however, I think according to the forum guidelines I am still allowed to give my own thoughts and POV as long as it doesn't interfere with "support".  Just because I'm not joining in the group stroking doesn't mean I'm non-supportive; in fact, I have tried to encourage P&L as she works through her current discernment about her baby.  As this seems to be the only active group of Catholics, I read and post here.  Yes, I am fascinated (and often flummoxed) by some of the extreme opinions I see here, mainly because I seem to be immersed in a different sort of Catholic teaching and thinking than many of you.  It's difficult to understand, since I experience something quite different in my own faith life.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lavatea View Post

Bathing suits with cover-ups goes a bit far for me, but I often wear flip-flops. I actually go back and forth on whether to really dress up or just wear decent clothes. I like to stop by during the day sometimes just whenever I feel like it and visit with Our Lord, and I don't run home and put on a dress and heels before I do. So why fuss about what I wear to Mass? He's present in both cases. And I think he accepts us as we are. IDK.


ITA.  Though I'm not nuts about stuff I see people wearing to Mass sometimes (teenage girls come to mind), I remind myself that the most important thing is that they are present.

 

(Disclaimer: My kids have worn bathing suits to Mass .... but Mass was outside, at the family camp, and we were seated at picnic tables and in lawn chairs.  I'm pretty certain that Father was wearing shorts and sandals under his vestments - and  his hair may have still been damp from swimming, LOL.)
 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceAndLove View Post






In my understanding it refers to MDC Catholic mamas who support the Magisterium in all things- we do not argue with the Church's teachings nor do we teach anything contrary to the teachings of the Church.

ie: We do not support female ordination, homosexual marriage, etc.  We do support the upcoming translation and the return to better interpretation.


Though I don't agree with many of the Church's teachings, of course I won't debate them here.
 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceAndLove View Post





A majority of traditional Catholics I know do not support clapping in during Mass at any time- during the Gloria, etc.

And most traditional Catholics I know do not feel that the LifeTeen Mass is appropriate- there are far better ways to experience the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass- the Mass is meant to take us from this Earth and to the foot of the Cross and into Heaven.
 

 

 

Have you ever actually been to a LT Mass, though?  It's still the same liturgy, there is nothing illicit or "inappropriate" going on.  There is still a priest presiding.  The Eucharist is still the same.  It's simply a chance to give teens - the very demographic we need to keep in our churches - an opportunity to take a greater role in liturgical ministry, and to feel like they are important to the parish.

post #153 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger View Post

Thank you for the clarifications.  I do not intend to debate here; however, I think according to the forum guidelines I am still allowed to give my own thoughts and POV as long as it doesn't interfere with "support".  Just because I'm not joining in the group stroking doesn't mean I'm non-supportive; in fact, I have tried to encourage P&L as she works through her current discernment about her baby.  As this seems to be the only active group of Catholics, I read and post here.  Yes, I am fascinated (and often flummoxed) by some of the extreme opinions I see here, mainly because I seem to be immersed in a different sort of Catholic teaching and thinking than many of you.  It's difficult to understand, since I experience something quite different in my own faith life.

 

 


You should feel free to start a new thread that might feel more comfortable to you and I am sure other Catholic mamas would join you. This is not meant to be snarky, I'm just thinking that since you find our opinions "extreme" you might find fellowship with mamas more in your mindset.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by group stroking, unless it means that others didn't agree that you are not trying to debate. Clearly you are.

 

post #154 of 293
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
Have you ever actually been to a LT Mass, though?  It's still the same liturgy, there is nothing illicit or "inappropriate" going on.  There is still a priest presiding.  The Eucharist is still the same.  It's simply a chance to give teens - the very demographic we need to keep in our churches - an opportunity to take a greater role in liturgical ministry, and to feel like they are important to the parish.


 

Yes, I have been to LT Masses- both as a teen (the targeted demographic) and as an adult- I disliked them then and I dislike them now. The homily felt as if I was being talked down to, the hand gestures during songs were childish and openly mocked by the teens, the music was terrible and took away from the Mass- and I love Praise and Worship! I was raised at a Charismatic parish, so I appreciate that style of worship- but LT never did it well.  It always felt too much like I was at the local protestant Teen service when I attended LT Mass.

 

As for LT itself- The herd mentality I experienced when I went as a teen drove me insane.  The formulatic presentations by the Core group felt rehearsed. The small group gatherings were useless as no one participated, the predetermined talking points kept anyone from really discussing anything- the group leader pretty much presented with no one responding.  I tried to, but most of the time was shut down because I wanted to know more than the group leader knew.  All in all it was a frustrating experience.

 

I felt the same then as I do now- teens don't need a special Mass.  A special program, yes- they think and experience differently.  Catechesis needs to def continue into the teen and young adult years, but the Mass does not need to change to fit a certain demographic.  The way for teens to feel "important" is to learn to be humble and that their role as Catholics is to worship- not to be crowding the altar with ministries and duties.

post #155 of 293
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshoes View Post




You should feel free to start a new thread that might feel more comfortable to you and I am sure other Catholic mamas would join you. This is not meant to be snarky, I'm just thinking that since you find our opinions "extreme" you might find fellowship with mamas more in your mindset.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by group stroking, unless it means that others didn't agree that you are not trying to debate. Clearly you are.

 


At one point there was an "All-Comers Catholic" thread. I don't know what happened to it.

 

Trigger- I appreciate your prayers and support during all I am going through.  I really don't intend to come off snarky or mean.

 

post #156 of 293

Just popping in to say hi...I don't visit MDC much at all anymore, but I was thinking about you ladies today.  I hope you're all doing well.  Things are pretty good here.  Househunting (well, we found one we fell in love with, but we're still working on getting ours on the market!  Hopefully we will be up by the first week of August and the house we want will still be available for a contingency offer), two birthdays coming up, baby is almost 9 months old and getting so big!  Dh is working 12 hour shifts now (4 days on, 4 days off) which is tough on me with the kids, but the money is nice. 

 

I have the Confession ap and like it, though I haven't used it yet!  Actually I was just thinking we really need to get to confession, we haven't been since the baby was a newborn.  Confession times are so limited and it's hard to work around dh's work schedule.  Anyway, I also really like the iRosary ap and Compline (iBreviary is good, too).

post #157 of 293

I'd say iPieta is my favorite app. 

post #158 of 293

Hey ladies. Just popping in to say hello. Looks like the thread has been having some hard times. Boy it is hard to come to MDC some days - even in the TC thread!  Things are going well here - counting the cycles and hoping for baby #3 I guess. Enjoying the summer, taking it hour by hour through some big teething spells, and just generally feeling like life is pretty good right now (although far from perfect!). 

 

 I keep all of you in my prayers and hope things are going well.

post #159 of 293

Since there was a discussion.... I definitely do not think clapping is the way to go at Mass. We are basically at the feet of Jesus at Calvary and I don't find that clapping is a good way to express out emotions there...

 

Were approved for short term fostering and it looks like things might move quickly. My emotions are all over the place. I have been coming to the conclusion that we may never even foster a child older than 12 or 24 months. I think dd is "it" for us. All kinds of emotions about that. Yet, I am starting to see more of God will for me, and that is wonderful!

post #160 of 293

Hi, Catholic mamas!  We have recently learned that God has blessed us with a second child, due to be born around the feast day of St. Patrick.  We have been praying that God would give us another child in His timing, and it is wonderful to know that God's plans and our aligned.  Praise the Lord!

 

Lavatea and LTB, I go back and forth between your sentiments.  Of course Christ accepts us as who we are.  Of course we can come to meet him informally.  I think that it is very cute when my two-year-old leaves adoration saying "bye-bye, Jesus" and don't worry too much when it is followed by "I have to go potty, drink water, wash hands."  The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is something different, though.  It is being at the feet of Jesus at Calvary, the Last Supper, the Wedding Feast of the Lamb.  I try to at least put on pants/skirt (no shorts/swimsuit) and closed-toed shoes.

 

As to clapping during the Gloria, does anyone know if there have been any specific prohibitions or any other information on the topic.  While the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is something to be very serious about, the Gloria is a song of praise.  It is taken out completely during Lent and brought back with great rejoicing at Easter.  If clapping during Mass was ever appropriate, I think it would be during the Gloria.  From Psalm 47:

 

Quote:
2 All you peoples, clap you hands;
shout to God with joyful cries.
3 For the Lord, the Most High, inspires awe,
the great kind over all the earth,
4 Who made people subject to us,
brought nations under our feet,
5 Who chose a land for our heritage,
the glory of Jacob, the beloved.
 
6 God mounts his throne amid shouts of joy;
the Lord, amid trumpet blasts.
7 Sing praise to God, sing praise;
sing praise to our king, sing praise.
 
8 God is Kind over all the earth;
sing hymns of praise.
9 God rules over the nations;
God sits upon his holy throne.
10 The princes of the peoples assemble
with the people of the God of Abraham
For the rulers of the earth belong to God,
who is enthroned on high.

 Of course, I seek obedience to the Magisterium.  Is the Gloria not ever a place for this kind of praise?  Forgive me, I am still learning.  Proper liturgy is not something that was really emphasized in any of my churches growing up.  I do not even know all the abuses going on, but as I learn the 'why' behind the way everything is, I fall more and more in love with the beauty of my Church.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Spirituality
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Talk Amongst Ourselves › Spirituality › Traditional Catholic Moms Spring/Summer 2011