working on some new thoughts - Page 4

[Panserbjorne]

not suggesting here that you give it..but have you tested her with clay?  you can certainly do it externally in a bath to pull junk out, but it's not the same.  You know how you stick a pinky into probiotics and let a babe suck on it?  I'm wondering about that with clay.  no answers yet.  It may just be a matter of low and slow with babies....ramping up over a long period of time.

[FireWithin]

good idea. I only have non edible sodium bentonite and that was a maybe. When I asked about edible clay, that was a yes. I planned on ordering some tonight or tomorrow. Maybe Chlobo has a tablespoon or two she can give me. . . . Off to ask.

[True Blue]

I'm pretty confused about the clay...what kind, where to get it, how to even take it.  I don't see my son drinking it, but if it were in capsules he'd take it no problem.  My almost 3 yo...not sure at all.  Maybe if I can mix it in limeade or something I made she would take it, but no guarantee.  And what about charcoal vs clay?

I do love the idea behind this, and kind of wish I wasn't going away in a week bc I'd start now!  It certainly couldn't hurt anything and just might help. ;)  I do agree the diets seem like more of a crutch, since it does seem people are stuck on them for...well, ever, really.  I wouldn't even have a problem keeping the offending foods out while we did this.  If this would help my kids be less sensitive...well it would be amazing.  I really don't want to subsist on bone broth lol!  That said....would it be extra beneficial to temporarily follow something like the GAPS intro when you hit the probiotic sweet spot?  Don't you think it might even make things work better/faster?  Just throwing ideas out.  Recolonize + easy to digest food might= happy gut.

[Koalamom]

True Blue, I just started giving my 3 yr old clay and I mix a 1/2 tsp with apple cider - just a little and she drinks it down and sometimes with a straw cut in half works. Tastes like nothing really.

I explained before hand that it would help with her health and she said, "mama, will that make me be able to eat those black and white cookies (oreos) daddy hides... Cuz I ate one the other day."

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

I just did a major dietary cheat as did my dh and there was absolutely no reaction.  Now....that means very little as we're two people....but it was big.  I'm not nursing a little one so I can't say if there was a minor reaction that would have trickled down.  But I'm seriously hopeful.  I have one mama with a tiny baby who has multiple sensitivities starting and we'll see what happens with her since she's currently off about a thousand foods.

You didn't gluten yourself did you? Lol!

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

no, lyme is very different sadly.

...But possible! (right?)

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1 

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

I just did a major dietary cheat as did my dh and there was absolutely no reaction.  Now....that means very little as we're two people....but it was big.  I'm not nursing a little one so I can't say if there was a minor reaction that would have trickled down.  But I'm seriously hopeful.  I have one mama with a tiny baby who has multiple sensitivities starting and we'll see what happens with her since she's currently off about a thousand foods.

You didn't gluten yourself did you? Lol!

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

no, lyme is very different sadly.

...But possible! (right?)

I totally glutened myself-and I'm still doing great!  no change in physical feelings, emotions, bowel function, skin flare etc.  NOTHING!  And it would have been worth it anyway.  Talk to my mother.  I went for YEARS with no slip ups at all.  She made me something that was unfair and irresistible!

And for the lyme-totally possible to get to a happy place.  I've seen it, and I've seen it last.  I just don't think THIS protocol would do it by itself.  There is hope!

[Koalamom]

Alright about the gluten!! I hope it was good dessert. Whoot!!!!! It is like when I converted to eating meat again after almost 8 years, it was hard and I found dh in the kitchen cooking bacon. Made the transition better and so gooood.
Not that you were looking to be glutened though.

I know what you mean. I talked to a friend the other day who found out she has lyme and is a wreck especially neurologically. She asked me what she should do (and I first recommended she see you, PB), and then I felt that clay wasnt right for her at this time and told her to start breaking down the layers with teasel first.
So when Theloose (I think) asked if clay was all we needed, I think in all health issues there may be something else we need and be open to it.

[deditus]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

People who are doing the super high dosing are reporting reduced anxiety, an overall sense of peace and excellent digestive function with a lack of need for much TP as Jane pointed out!  They also see absolute regularity, with stools that are well formed, possessing the right color and consistency.  The smell also changes.

The sticking point just seems to be that people can't comfortably jump that high without experiencing distress in terms of die off.  That's where my focus is going.  I don't want heavy metals being released into the system, or any increase in toxicity at all.  Assuming this could be the keystone.

Here's my update:

I started CP Six Strain on Saturday. I had worked up to about 1 teaspoon of clay/day in the week prior, and sprinkles here and there for dd. I put about .05 g (about 12.5 billion cfus) in a shot glass of water, giving dd one teaspoon of that and downing the rest myself. Saturday night I felt incredible - stupidly giddy, much like the first time I took iodine. The only negative symptom I am having is the easily-recognizable "die-off" poop. Dd's skin looks good, her mood has been great, and she has pooped 2x day (much nicer than mine). I am going to be slightly upping her B's, as she has been doing this stutter thing she does when she's burning through them, and zinc, as she had pink pee last night which she hasn't had in a long while. Happy to be in this place right now, the synchronicity of it, and the affirmation that I have been doing something right with dd so she can tolerate the pbx now. PLEASE - I want eggs & coconut back !!!

We're gonna keep going and see where it leads us!

ETA: to add a few more details, since I keep track of this stuff. My skin feels much smoother and plumper. I am keeping a close eye on my eyes - they were hazel green with gold flecks my whole life and when I started gut healing and was at my best they started clearing to a grey-blue with a lot less flecks. They are now grey-blue with a gold ring around the pupil. There was something else too, but I forget! I'll add it when I remember.

Originally Posted by True Blue 

I do love the idea behind this, and kind of wish I wasn't going away in a week bc I'd start now!  It certainly couldn't hurt anything and just might help. ;)  I do agree the diets seem like more of a crutch, since it does seem people are stuck on them for...well, ever, really.  I wouldn't even have a problem keeping the offending foods out while we did this.  If this would help my kids be less sensitive...well it would be amazing.  I really don't want to subsist on bone broth lol!  That said....would it be extra beneficial to temporarily follow something like the GAPS intro when you hit the probiotic sweet spot?  Don't you think it might even make things work better/faster?  Just throwing ideas out.  Recolonize + easy to digest food might= happy gut.

I have felt my much better the more GAPS-ish I eat, especially with the broth based soups. I do think it would accelerate healing.

[bluets]

Originally Posted by deditus 

ETA: to add a few more details, since I keep track of this stuff. My skin feels much smoother and plumper. I am keeping a close eye on my eyes - they were hazel green with gold flecks my whole life and when I started gut healing and was at my best they started clearing to a grey-blue with a lot less flecks. They are now grey-blue with a gold ring around the pupil. There was something else too, but I forget! I'll add it when I remember.

oooo... iris diagnosis :)  i should dig out my charts.

[kjbrown92]

Okay, you had me until the metals and lyme stuff. We use Theralac (DS, DD2 and I are all on one a day). We all have food intolerances and lyme and metals. So are you saying we shouldn't do this mega-priobiotic/clay protocol because of the lyme/metals, or just that we might need more than that (DS is on 2 antibiotics, I'm on herbals, DD2 is on herbals; none of us have addressed the metals yet, but I'm getting ready to)? This probiotic in particular helped DS to get to a good place (with enzymes as well) pooping wise. I'm looking for that quick and easy fix but I know it isn't out there.

[bluets]

i'm suitably impressed with the breadth of VSL#3 studies (from just the abstracts, anyway) - i'm not easily impressed these days.  there's a growing body of work using it for all sorts of gut and bowel issues.  a mention of it with celiac disease, crohn's, etc.  it apparently decreases the diversity of gut flora, which may help with healing.  it also appears to suppress Th2 responses in food allergy (in rodents).

just if you do look up VSL#3 in pubmed directly, you should know that you'll get a bunch of ... semen-related... papers.  apparently, there's a "VSL" term in animal reproduction/fertility studies that confuses pubmed search engine.  

i haven't gone beyond the abstracts but when i do, if i find some gems, i'll share :)

(And it was easier to start with VSL#3 because it narrows down the search parameters substantially)

[True Blue]

Still dipping my toes in.  Does that mean that it's better to use one with less strains than more?  I had thought something like Therbiotic with 12 strains would get all kind of good flora in there, but I have nothing to back that up.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by bluets 

i'm suitably impressed with the breadth of VSL#3 studies (from just the abstracts, anyway) - i'm not easily impressed these days.  there's a growing body of work using it for all sorts of gut and bowel issues.  a mention of it with celiac disease, crohn's, etc.  it apparently decreases the diversity of gut flora, which may help with healing.  it also appears to suppress Th2 responses in food allergy (in rodents).

that's one of the first things that set me off.  then neuroscience did their presentation on the Th1 modulation.  I've been trying to figure out a reliable way, along with my colleague, of getting people back into Th1, becoming parasympathetic dominant as that will shift the cascade.  It can be done in many ways, but they don't seem to last-and I do understand that the body has to be taught not to go down that sympathetic response path.  But, it's a common denominator in so many of these kids and while I know some seriously competent people, that doesn't help those that live 10 hours away.

There was a study by a neuropsych guy that found that a particular herb reliably switched people and that it worked as well, if not better, than the medication from pharmaceutical companies (great talk!)   Anyway, we've been using that as an essence and it does seem to support the neurological aspects nicely....but it's not enough.

Anyway...we've been working on this for years and this finally feels like a break.  I'm trying not to get too excited because there may be additional components (like with the bowel nosodes and such....berberine also has some studies which were just pointed out to me by my colleague showing it's efficacy for leaky gut and closing tight junctions.)  So there's possibly more, or alternate ways to do it.  I'm still playing!  We were also talking last night about immunology and microbiology of the gut flora and wanting to get deeper in to that.

Still a work in progress!

[chambom]

Can somone please summarize? I am new to exploring allergies and am very intrigued by this thread. But you guys are talking a different language!!

I have 2 DDs

DD1- almost 3- never had any signs of intolerance as a baby- now she is very gassy and poop is mushy

DD2- three months- extremely gassy and crampy- some green poops and some poops with mucous- I have cut dairy and eggs- she has good days and bad days and I can't seem to find a common thread in the bad days

So are you guys saying to supplememt with high doses of probiotics and also take clay?

Any specific recommendations on brands/where to buy?

How exactly would I implement this with the little ones?

Thanks!! Great info and research you guys are doing!

[chlobo]

So PB, do you think its still a worthwhile thing for people with lyme to try?  Or will having lyme screw it up or make it worthless?

[Panserbjorne]

not at all!  I am just not confident that it would heal the lyme.  I think it would still be beneficial.

I'm gathering some more information and have plans to talk with someone who uses this idea in her practice.  Hopefully I'll know more soon.

[Koalamom]

Well PB, I will certainly be a genuine pig for whatever trials you want to run.

[bluets]

I'm going to start myself on this experiment, maybe dh too.  But our problems are minor congestion (dairy, go figure) and adrenal fatigue.  I'm hoping that this would be a route to reduce the congestion/quasi-allergic state, which would then reduce the load on the adrenals.

[chlobo]

Day 4 - 2 tsp clay.  We'll see how it goes.

[Panserbjorne]

I'm doing well at 2T. right now.  Feeling really excellent and in fact, today, took more.  I actually feel  like my gut doesn't exist.  It's a pretty cool feeling!