working on some new thoughts - Page 5

[Theloose]

I'm at a little over a tablespoon, and miserable. And sick. I'm wondering if I'm either reacting to new stuff, or if the clay is somehow mobilizing and I need a different kind or to go way higher. Why do I have to be the ultra sensitive one?

[Panserbjorne]

if it's that the clay is too much then you can figure that out.  what's the stooling like?  clay works in a very interesting way.  if there's junk sitting in pockets in your colon it will pull it out so it is possible that you could feel worse before feeling better.  You don't hear it a lot, but I am seeing it in people that are increasing doses quickly. 

[Theloose]

Stool is toxic ugly, same as the yeast remedy and when I was increasing pancreatic enzymes.

So what do you do about feeling worse before you feel better?  Increase it more to bind the extra gunk?  Or back way off and try to go slower?

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by Theloose 
back way off and try to go slower

that's what I'd do.  you are sensitive because you have so much happening in your gut.  it was holding steady and trying to keep up with the status quo.  as clay removes junk it can expose areas that were covered with mucus or pockets of build up.  as those areas are revealed you may experience increased sensitivity.  but we still want gentle.  There's no good reason to push so fast that you are in misery.  while some might argue that more could make you feel better, I've seen it go both ways.  going slow and steady won't get you there faster, but it may well get you there in the same amount of time while being comfortable (a relative term, to be sure.)

I've seen people told to push through things and I don't like it.  If you are beyond your comfort level then I feel like it's a good time to back down.  that's not a failure of your body, it's you respecting it.

[Theloose]

so then, are we talking a ramp down to try and keep binding stuff that's already mobilized? or an abrupt drop to stop the dumping, NOW?  At about 2tsp, I think I was starting to stabilize, maybe.  Just jump back to there?

[Panserbjorne]

yup, go back there for now.  if you jump and become miserable then you need to go down.  if you jump and feel a million times better, then that's your answer.  you procured necessary information the only way you could, and it's time to go back for a bit!

[Theloose]

It's being able to read that info and understand it that's killer. So glad you're here!

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

I'm doing well at 2T. right now.  Feeling really excellent and in fact, today, took more.  I actually feel  like my gut doesn't exist.  It's a pretty cool feeling!

Are you kidding me? 2 tablespoons plus. Did I read that right!? Whew!

I am feeling great at 2 tsps but have this weird anticipation to 1 tablespoon. I am learning so much about my body and it is so cool.

I wonder if the clay makes it so you don't need probiotics. I have this craving for kombucha and would need it to settle my stomach, but since taking the clay )especially since upping it), I don't crave kombucha. I wonder if I am now able to create all my gut flora now by myself? Of is there some in the clay?

[kjbrown92]

I'm ready to be a guinea pig. I just finished my millionth round of abx (might be a slight exaggeration). I have Theralac; 1 capsule:

5 billion CFU lactobacillus paracasei

2 billion CFU lactobacillus rhamnosus

10 billion CFU lactobacillus acidophilus

10 billion CFU bifidobacterium lactis (strain Bl-34)

3 billion CFU bifidobacterium lactis (strain Bi-07)

20 mg lactoferrin (milk)

gee, how come my extrmely sensitive DS has never reacted to this with milk in it? Interesting.

And I also have Klaire Labs ABx support; 1 capsule:

5 billion CFU saccharomyces boulardii

2.5 billion CFU lactobacillus rhamnosus

1.25 billion CFU bifidobacterium bifidum

1.25 billion CFU bifidobacterium breve

How many of each should I take. I also have bentonite clay (liquid). I also have lyme/metals. Hit me with your protocol PB and I'll give you detailed feedback for the professional paper that you're going to publish on this one!!

[Theloose]

I'm guessing it's not so much the clay having flora in it, or you producing it on your own, but rather the clay neutralizing the toxins your existing flora is making. And that that's where the probiotics come in - they would drop your need for the clay, since now your gut would be making good, helpful stuff like vitamins, and helping absorption, rather than making all kinds of toxins and blocking nutrient absorption.

I've also heard clay described as changing the environment to encourage growth of good bacteria vs bad, though, so you might be on to something?

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1 

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

I'm doing well at 2T. right now.  Feeling really excellent and in fact, today, took more.  I actually feel  like my gut doesn't exist.  It's a pretty cool feeling!

Are you kidding me? 2 tablespoons plus. Did I read that right!? Whew!

I am feeling great at 2 tsps but have this weird anticipation to 1 tablespoon. I am learning so much about my body and it is so cool.

I wonder if the clay makes it so you don't need probiotics. I have this craving for kombucha and would need it to settle my stomach, but since taking the clay )especially since upping it), I don't crave kombucha. I wonder if I am now able to create all my gut flora now by myself? Of is there some in the clay?

Yup, I did 3 T. but it was too much, so I went back to 2.  I think doing probiotics is still necessary...however the clay does change the intestinal environment so you're probably coming closer to center.  I'd still do pbx.
 

Originally Posted by kjbrown92 

I'm ready to be a guinea pig. I just finished my millionth round of abx (might be a slight exaggeration). I have Theralac; 1 capsule:

5 billion CFU lactobacillus paracasei

2 billion CFU lactobacillus rhamnosus

10 billion CFU lactobacillus acidophilus

10 billion CFU bifidobacterium lactis (strain Bl-34)

3 billion CFU bifidobacterium lactis (strain Bi-07)

20 mg lactoferrin (milk)

gee, how come my extrmely sensitive DS has never reacted to this with milk in it? Interesting.

And I also have Klaire Labs ABx support; 1 capsule:

5 billion CFU saccharomyces boulardii

2.5 billion CFU lactobacillus rhamnosus

1.25 billion CFU bifidobacterium bifidum

1.25 billion CFU bifidobacterium breve

How many of each should I take. I also have bentonite clay (liquid). I also have lyme/metals. Hit me with your protocol PB and I'll give you detailed feedback for the professional paper that you're going to publish on this one!!

HA!  Okay....well the *theory* here is that if you are releasing additional metals while you detox the clay will mop them up.  So for the probiotics I think starting around 100 billion CFU's and working up to bowel tolerance (I'd take a week to be sure) is what I'd do.  BUT you probably want to start one or the other, not both to know what each feels like.  For me I'd start with clay and once I was comfortably at 1 T. I'd add the probiotics.  Again, I'm still reasoning through this so ya'll are at the mercy of my insanity.  But since clay has no contraindications and probiotics are safe we can't veer too far off course.  But again, disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer these are just thoughts!   I'm happy so far but by no means have anything figured out!

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by Theloose 

I'm guessing it's not so much the clay having flora in it, or you producing it on your own, but rather the clay neutralizing the toxins your existing flora is making. And that that's where the probiotics come in - they would drop your need for the clay, since now your gut would be making good, helpful stuff like vitamins, and helping absorption, rather than making all kinds of toxins and blocking nutrient absorption.

I've also heard clay described as changing the environment to encourage growth of good bacteria vs bad, though, so you might be on to something?

this.  I was late to the party and we cross posted since I left a window open, but yes.

[Theloose]

What does too much clay feel like?

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

Yup, I did 3 T. but it was too much, so I went back to 2.  I think doing probiotics is still necessary...however the clay does change the intestinal environment so you're probably coming closer to center.  I'd still do pbx.
 

HA!  Okay....well the *theory* here is that if you are releasing additional metals while you detox the clay will mop them up.  So for the probiotics I think starting around 100 billion CFU's and working up to bowel tolerance (I'd take a week to be sure) is what I'd do.  BUT you probably want to start one or the other, not both to know what each feels like.  For me I'd start with clay and once I was comfortably at 1 T. I'd add the probiotics.  Again, I'm still reasoning through this so ya'll are at the mercy of my insanity.  But since clay has no contraindications and probiotics are safe we can't veer too far off course.  But again, disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer these are just thoughts!   I'm happy so far but by no means have anything figured out!

And just to clarify, do you have any guess as to how the liquid clay in a bottle compares to a powdered then hydrated clay, dosage-wise? And while we're at it, do you measure a swelling clay as powder, or once its hydrated?

[Panserbjorne]

I'm using 2 T dry, hydrated in 8 ounces of water or chicken broth.  I think pre hydrated clay is more like 1T-1cup, but I'm not sure.  I'm too cheap to buy prehydrated clay!

For most too much clay can produce really loose stools.  It's a game of chance though, as not enough won't affect your bowels and if you're prone to looser stool it can be hard to gauge.  For me 1T firmed things nicely, no undigested food, right color, consistency etc.  As things got softer I upped the clay with excellent results.  Then I wondered what would happen going up again (without seeing signs to encourage me to do so, smart, right?) and it really loosened things up.  That's common.  SO I moved back to 2T dry in 8 ounces of water and feel great again.

[tanyalynn]

http://www.customprobiotics.com/products.htm

So... if one were to consider this, is this the place with the most cost-effective probiotic supps?  And wow, that's a lot of product choices.  Any guidance on why one would choose one product vs another? (kids and adults... I see the infant strains, but do somewhat older kids, say 4+ just choose similar strains as adults?)

Edited by tanyalynn - 3/5/11 at 9:44am

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

I'm using 2 T dry, hydrated in 8 ounces of water or chicken broth.  I think pre hydrated clay is more like 1T-1cup, but I'm not sure.  I'm too cheap to buy prehydrated clay!

For most too much clay can produce really loose stools.  It's a game of chance though, as not enough won't affect your bowels and if you're prone to looser stool it can be hard to gauge.  For me 1T firmed things nicely, no undigested food, right color, consistency etc.  As things got softer I upped the clay with excellent results.  Then I wondered what would happen going up again (without seeing signs to encourage me to do so, smart, right?) and it really loosened things up.  That's common.  SO I moved back to 2T dry in 8 ounces of water and feel great again.

Yeah an 1/8 tsp clay gave my son the runs. And 1/2 tsp did nothing for my dd but make her go more often.

[True Blue]

So why only start at 100B, if so much more is needed to make a difference?  Or is that for Kathy bc of lyme issues?

I'd like to start my kids in about 2 weeks when we get back from being away.  I will have access to Whole Foods while gone, I'm assuming I can find clay there?  Is there anything I need to know about choosing some?

And as for probiotics...I'm about out, so I'd like to order whatever they will need.  DS is 8 and DD2 is 3 now.  Still hoping I can even get this stuff into the little one, but maybe in a milkshake or something I could.  Is that VSL#3 stuff a better way to go?  I will honestly buy whatever if it will make a difference!!!!!

We have no intestinal issues, at least with elimination.  DD2 used to poop once a week, even as an infant, until we removed gluten and sals. 

[Panserbjorne]

it's all really individual and can change.  it DOES change.  You have to just watch for the signs.  It's a very personal process and there are no "keepers" of this knowledge...it's trial and error.

[Theloose]

If 1/8tsp is causing loose stools in bluebirdmama's toddler - is that more likely cause of mobilizing stuff, or hitting bowel tolerance?  What's a reasonable ballpark for bowel tolerance at various ages?

And if the pbx strains are so individual and change so much... how do you know where to start?  And what a reasonable cost effective way to buy them would be?  And how do you know when to change it up?

so many questions this morning, lol